The defense will be better with Zeke

[Maxmadden]

I wished I could have read every page of this thread with all statistics showing this and showing that. But it is mostly just semantics.

The draft is about adding talent. Elliot improves the TEAM without a doubt. It helps the offense, the defense, and it helps special teams in countless minute ways that are not all defineable by statistics or arguement..

 

[Idgit]

You know what I'm getting at but you have no answer for what he said because there isn't anything sensible that can be made of it. He made a ridiculous comment that not even he can explain. Anyone who would say the running game has little effect on winning or losing in the NFL doesn't know what they're talking about. According to Adam that comment is true now and was true 30 years ago.

Tell Jimmy Johnson and the 90s Cowboys the running game has little effect on winning or losing and they'll laugh in your face. lol What's self-evident is neither you or Adam knows what you're talking about. According to you all we need is a mid round back to compete when we had a couple of mid round backs last season that ended up being released.

We're kind of going in circles here. I get his comment, but don't understand your objection to it. Unless, as I said above, you really haven't ever grasped the distinction he's been making this whole time.

Which is possible, judging from your Jimmy Johnson comment, I guess.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Because the lead RB last year had only three TDs and he was had the least impact of any RB that I have ever seen. His stats looked good , but he was not an impact player or playmaker.

Yes our low number of TDs was the running back's fault last season. And not that we didn't have Dez and 9.

You joking?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Murray's garbage yards came when Dallas was leading and the defense's was wore down. He was used to seal the victory. DMac , on the other hand, got his garbage time yardage after the defenses knew the game was over and they was just letting the time tick off the clock. There is a big difference.

"Worn down"

Except in both 2014 and 2015 the defense was on the field against us for roughly the same amount of time.

You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

 

[bsheeern]

From my experience, Adam generally uses blended rushing statistics (like DYAR, for example), though he may also be using the direct yardage comparisons for some of his explanations, too. But the argument is about rushing effectiveness, and not just who has the most yards or on YPC averages.

But in your own example there, short yardage and redzone feature fairly prominently in your description of an effective game. We know success with those factors does correlate with winning.

Well when it comes to DYAR Murray was tops in the NFL In 2014 & McFadden was 17th in 2015.

And when it comes to DVOA Murray was 5th in the league in 2014 & McFadden was 23rd in 2015

 

[bsheeern]

I wished I could have read every page of this thread with all statistics showing this and showing that. But it is mostly just semantics.

The draft is about adding talent. Elliot improves the TEAM without a doubt. It helps the offense, the defense, and it helps special teams in countless minute ways that are not all defineable by statistics or arguement..

Very well said

 

[KJJ]

We're kind of going in circles here. I get his comment, but don't understand your objection to it. Unless, as I said above, you really haven't ever grasped the distinction he's been making this whole time.

Which is possible, judging from your Jimmy Johnson comment, I guess.

All you're doing is giving your own take on everything he's saying "what Adam is trying to say is this and what Adam is trying to say is that and I believe what Adam was eluding to was this." lol He has you so under his spell it's hilarious! He said the running game has little effect on winning or losing in the NFL and he's DEAD WRONG and anyone who played and coached the game would tell him he's DEAD WRONG! How could anyone not understand someone's objection to a ridiculous comment that the running game has little effect on winning or losing in the NFL? Do you honestly believe if you said that to any coach, player or GM in the NFL they would agree with it? GET REAL!

 

[rpntex]

You've been brainwashed by a FAN on a fan board who claimed the running game has little effect on winning and losing in the NFL and he's DEAD WRONG! Adam isn't looking at the Cowboys situation he's taking in the entire NFL as a whole. For the "Cowboys" to be successful under their current situation with an aging QB who's been suffering injuries the past 3 seasons and with a defense that continues to struggle especially making critical 4th quarter stops they need a strong, consistent running game that can control the ball. The Cowboys went 8-8 three consecutive seasons including one season where Romo had a 102.5 passer rating. Murray and Felix Jones only combined for 3 rushing TD's that season putting it on Romo to have throw TD's to win games. The pressure of having to carry the team all year would catch up to him at the end of the season leading to a number of turnovers due to having to win games.

Romo has the second highest career passer rating in the history of the NFL but has only won 2 playoff games and has never gotten the Cowboys past the second round of the playoffs. Despite Romo owning most of the Cowboys passing records he's only been able to lead the team to the playoffs 4 times in his 10 seasons as the starter. The best season of his career was in 2014 due to having the leagues leading rusher which limited his attempts and INT's to a career low and raised his passer rating to a career high of 113.2.

In the playoffs that season he attempted only 50 passes in 2 playoff games, didn't have a single turnover and had a passer rating of 125.8 primarily due to a running game that produced over 200 yards and over 5.0 a carry. The running game is what kept us in the game vs Green Bay Romo only attempted 19 passes against the Packers. Every team is different and the Cowboys were done last season without Romo because with a running game averaging under 4.0 a carry the first 2 weeks he was back having to carry the team. The Cowboys understand he's aging and coming off an injury that kept him out of 12 games in 2015. They know they have to take pressure off him and get back to what made them successful in 2014. The team knows they can't have Romo passing the ball 40+ times a game carrying the offense like he did on opening day last season.

They can't afford to have a running game that's averaging under 4.0 a carry the first 2 weeks or it will be on Romo's aging shoulders to win games for them which could lead to another injury. The team drafted a dynamic RB to pair behind what many regard as the best OL in football and you have some on this board disappointed with the decision. I'm arguing with one FAN who believes all we need to compete is a mid round back when we had a couple of mid round backs do little to nothing last year and are no longer with the team. Some FANS on this board still believe that all the Cowboys need is an average back and that McFadden's 1000 yard season and 3 rushing TDs last year was a great year. LOL

The Cowboys know that the defense will continue to be challenged next season especially the first 4 weeks with DLaw and Gregory suspended. Hardy is GONE like I predicted months ago so our best defense will be a strong offense that can control the ball limiting our D's exposure. We're going to have to keep the defense as fresh as possible until we can add more parts to strengthen it. Adam can preach all he wants that the running game has little effect on winning or losing and that the success we had in 2014 was due to passing the ball better than our opponents. Romo had little chance in 2014 of staying on the field 15 games after coming off back surgery and passing with the efficiency he did without having one of the strongest running games the team has had since the mid 90s with Emmitt.

The success of our great 90s teams revolved around the running game and a HOF RB who became the all-time leading rusher. What was winning games then was winning games for the Cowboys in 2014. Aikman's efficient career was due to having a great back and running game to lean on. He wasn't forced to have carry the offense like Romo has almost his entire career. He wasn't forced to have to throw for over 4000 yards 30+ TD's because he had a great back that took pressure off him. The Cowboys want to get back to what they did in 2014 because that's the formula for "THIS TEAM" to win games with an aging QB who's having trouble staying healthy and whose clock is ticking.

Man, you just can't stand JUST being right. You have to be the ONLY one who's right to be happy. There is no way you will ever knowledge that two people can have an accurate, plausible, viewpoint.

Adam is right… Numbers show – and numbers don't lie – that the team that passes the ball more efficiently will win 80% of the time. Numbers also show – and numbers don't lie – that The team that runs the ball more effectively will win half of the time. It truly is a coin flip when you run the ball better than your opponent, but don't pass the ball more effectively.

You are right… In Dallas's case the success of the passing game depends greatly upon the success of the rolling game. When the running game isn't working, it makes passing the ball that much more difficult. When the running game is working, it opens up Dallas's passing game. Since the running game directly affects Dallas's passing game, it is true that the running game in Dallas has a direct effect on winning and losing.

What Adam says doesn't make what you say invalid, and vice versa. As much as it pains you, you're going to have to share the "right" on this one.

 

[KJJ]

Man, you just can't stand JUST being right. You have to be the ONLY one who's right to be happy. There is no way you will ever knowledge that two people can have an accurate, plausible, viewpoint.

Adam is right… Numbers show – and numbers don't lie – that the team that passes the ball more efficiently will win 80% of the time. Numbers also show – and numbers don't lie – that The team that runs the ball more effectively will win half of the time.

You can't stand that the Cowboys and the NFL back my position because I am right. Dude, think about it you've been brainwashed by some data that a FAN posted on a message board. The gullibility of some of you is hilarious. Nothing pains me because we picked the player I was hoping for you it's you and a few others who are in pain thinking taking an RB with the 4th overall pick was a bad move.

 

[bsheeern]

Man, you just can't stand JUST being right. You have to be the ONLY one who's right to be happy. There is no way you will ever knowledge that two people can have an accurate, plausible, viewpoint.

Adam is right… Numbers show – and numbers don't lie – that the team that passes the ball more efficiently will win 80% of the time. Numbers also show – and numbers don't lie – that The team that runs the ball more effectively will win half of the time. It truly is a coin flip when you run the ball better than your opponent, but don't pass the ball more effectively.

You are right… In Dallas's case the success of the passing game depends greatly upon the success of the rolling game. When the running game isn't working, it makes passing the ball that much more difficult. When the running game is working, it opens up Dallas's passing game. Since the running game directly affects Dallas's passing game, it is true that the running game in Dallas has a direct effect on winning and losing.

What Adam says doesn't make what you say invalid, and vice versa. As much as it pains you, you're going to have to share the "right" on this one.

But you are missing this quote directly from Adam.

"How well you run it when you choose to run has almost no impact on whether you win or lose, nor does how well you stop the run when the opponent runs."

 

[jnday]

Yes our low number of TDs was the running back's fault last season. And not that we didn't have Dez and 9.

You joking?

Was DMac injured as well? I know the oline was healthy. Does Dez do that much fun blocking where that him not blocking for DMac hurt his TD total? The fact is that the RBs on last year's roster couldn't start for very many teams in the league. DMac had plenty of opportunities running behind the best line in football and only scored three TDs. That is not bad , that is pitiful. I expect more production from the position. There was not a RB on the roster that defense's feared or game planned for. They was not playmakers or game changers. DMac in particular proved that stats doesn't translate into impact.

 

[jnday]

"Worn down"

Except in both 2014 and 2015 the defense was on the field against us for roughly the same amount of time.

You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

I never argued about the time that they was on the field. My statement was about what they was doing when they was on the field. They was not doing the same thing. That is the fact that I was presenting. Murray produced scores, DMac, not so much. I hope you are not leaning towards thinking that DMac is just as productive as Murray. Even today, Dmmitt could have scored more than three TDs behind this line.

 

[Idgit]

All you're doing is giving your own take on everything he's saying "what Adam is trying to say is this and what Adam is trying to say is that and I believe what Adam was eluding to was this." lol He has you so under his spell it's hilarious! He said the running game has little effect on winning or losing in the NFL and he's DEAD WRONG and anyone who played and coached the game would tell him he's DEAD WRONG! How could anyone not understand someone's objection to a ridiculous comment that the running game has little effect on winning or losing in the NFL? Do you honestly believe if you said that to any coach, player or GM in the NFL they would agree with it? GET REAL!

You explicitly asked me for my interpretation of Adam's argument in post #452.

I swear, KJJ. If I were your butt, I'd be so jealous of the things that come out of your mouth sometimes.

 

[jnday]

You can't stand that the Cowboys and the NFL back my position because I am right. Dude, think about it you've been brainwashed by some data that a FAN posted on a message board. The gullibility of some of you is hilarious. Nothing pains me because we picked the player I was hoping for you it's you and a few others who are in pain thinking taking an RB with the 4th overall pick was a bad move.

They will be the first to forget about their opposition to the pick after Zeke starts producing big numbers and scoring TDs. Zeke be responsible for more points this season than Ramsey will his entire career. Points=impact. I had to live with the stinking Mompick for the last several years. Another top ten pick wasted on s DB would have probably made me a casual fan that only watched s game or two each year. I wouldn't have got upset , I expected the Ramsey pick. I am encourage that Jerry is learning from past mistakes .

 

[KJJ]

You explicitly asked me for my interpretation of Adam's argument in post #452.

I swear, KJJ. If I were your butt, I'd be so jealous of the things that come out of your mouth sometimes.

I asked you to explain his comment and all you offered was that it was self-evident which means you can't explain it. If I were your butt I would add some padding to it because it's been getting kicked pretty good the past couple of days.

 

[KJJ]

They will be the first to forget about their opposition to the pick after Zeke starts producing big numbers and scoring TDs. Zeke be responsible for more points this season than Ramsey will his entire career. Points=impact. I had to live with the stinking Mompick for the last several years. Another top ten pick wasted on s DB would have probably made me a casual fan that only watched s game or two each year. I wouldn't have got upset , I expected the Ramsey pick. I am encourage that Jerry is learning from past mistakes .

I'm sure many us will be reminding them of their opposition to the pick when Zeke starts producing big numbers and scoring TD's that lead to some wins. With all the links to their quotes they'll be revisiting this and several other threads many times over the next several years.

 

[Idgit]

I asked you to explain his comment and all you offered was that it was self-evident which means you can't explain it. If I were your butt I would add some padding to it because it's been getting kicked pretty good the past couple of days.

I know what I said. The obvious point is that you asked for my take on his comment explicitly and then complained that I gave you my take on his comment. If you consider that 'kicking butt,' then I question your grasp on both kicks and butts. To the rest of us, it's what we call 'flailing.'

In any event, enough again. Cheers.

 

[BAT]

No doubt Elliott will help the defense. But the defense will improve even more significantly with better talent. Indirect assists are nice, but this defense will not take it to the next level by adding more talented offensive players, the D also needs to get better rushing the passer, stopping the run and getting takeaways. To do that at championship level, talent must improve. Elliott cannot help them with any of that.

 

[KJJ]

I know what I said. The obvious point is that you asked for my take on his comment explicitly and then complained that I gave you my take on his comment. If you consider that 'kicking butt,' then I question your grasp on both kicks and butts. To the rest of us, it's what we call 'flailing.'

In any event, enough again. Cheers.

I was complaining about you giving your take on other comments of his but you never gave your take on his comment that the running game has little effect on winning or losing in the NFL you simply said it was self-evident. I was expecting you to elaborate a little but you didn't seem to want to touch it. So you agree with him that the running game has little effect on winning or losing in the NFL?

 

[wileedog]

No doubt Elliott will help the defense. But the defense will improve even more significantly with better talent. Indirect assists are nice, but this defense will not take it to the next level by adding more talented offensive players, the D also needs to get better rushing the passer, stopping the run and getting takeaways. To do that at championship level, talent must improve. Elliott cannot help them with any of that.

Yeah, call me old school but I prefer to improve the defense by actually improving the defense. Not spending resource after resource figuring out ways just to keep them off the field. At some point they have to play.

Also, unless Zeke can somehow produce 20 turnovers (the difference between 2014 and 2015) he isn't that big of a help.