The defense will be better with Zeke

[Sydla]

Today's NFL? Scoring comes from scoring. How you do it can vary, and the league seems like it is headed back to a ground-game attack. Defenses are prepping for pass offenses, so they get these little linebackers and light defensive ends. Bring a power run game at them, and they are ill-equipped, which is why the ground game is returning to the NFL all of the sudden.

So your opinion is the biggest difference between 2014 and 2015 was the lack of a power running game?

 

[MRV52]

What if I told you that the defense was top 10 in points allowed per game in QTRs 1 through 3, but collapse in the 4th quarter?

Exactly the defense ranked 21st overall in points allowed was not as bad as most in here are making it sound like. We hang with many teams including the Patriots, but when you can't move the ball and it's 3 and out what do you expect that defense to do. They are going to be gassed in the 4th quarter. Stop crying about picking Elliot at #4, we picked up some fine talent on defense in the later rounds. With Scandrick back and Jones with 1 more year of experience we will have a good defense. Predicting around 12th in total defense.

 

[KJJ]

Doesn't change the fact you keep citing a made up stat.

What stat was make up? I'm posting stats that have been reported by those who get paid to talk football. Are you saying they make stats up and you have the facts?

 

[erod]

Unfortunately, the problem with that analysis is that TOP stats and analysis doesn't back up that claim.

Regarding TOP....watch this.

Dallas kicks off, and Washington returns it for a touchdown.
Dallas then goes on a 8-play, 50-yard drive, which ends with Matt Cassel throwing a pick six.
Dallas then goes on a 6-play drive, then punts. Cousins hits Jackson on a 70-yard streak for a TD.
Dallas then goes on a 7-play drive, then punts again. It's returned for a touchdown.

Washington has about 50 seconds of TOP, but they're winning 28-0. Dallas has 9 minutes of TOP.

Worthless statistic.

 

[JoeKing]

Zeke better have a mad pass rush presence because otherwise, he's not helping the D.

 

[Sydla]

Exactly the defense ranked 21st overall in points allowed was not as bad as most in here are making it sound like. We hang with many teams including the Patriots, but when you can't move the ball and it's 3 and out what do you expect that defense to do. They are going to be gassed in the 4th quarter. Stop crying about picking Elliot at #4, we picked up some fine talent on defense in the later rounds. With Scandrick back and Jones with 1 more year of experience we will have a good defense. Predicting around 12th in total defense.

And this would make a lot of sense if you saw a significant difference between the time the defense spent on the field in 2015 compared to 2014 when the defense was more effective.

Guess what? The defense wasn't on the field all that much more in 2015 than 2014.

 

[Sydla]

What stat was make up? I'm posting stats that have been reported by those who get paid to talk football. Are you saying they make stats up and you have the facts?

You cited a difference in plays run that was larger than it really was.

 

[KJJ]

And that's not accurate. Kiper said we didn't get the real value of the 4th pick. And one of the NFLN (not Mayock), while liking Elliott, also said the same thing. Did it really make sense to take a TB at 4 with the OL we had and the needs on the defensive side of the ball?

I never said anything about the value of the pick besides most everyone had Zeke as a top 5 player. The general consensus by everyone during the draft by both networks was that it was a good pick. The pick made a lot of sense because our OL couldn't make the average backs we had anything special because the back matters! Any back could have produced a 1000 yard season behind our OL, Randle would have had a 1000 yard season had he not been released.

 

[erod]

So your opinion is the biggest difference between 2014 and 2015 was the lack of a power running game?

To the point of this thread, the difference was the score.

When ahead by a touchdown with a dangerous offense on the sideline, the other team has to take a lot of chances. ESPECIALLY with a dynamic running game that can just run out the clock and wear out the opposing defense.

Offenses don't function well when they're behind, their defense is exhausted, and they know they can't afford to punt or they'll get further behind.

 

[bsheeern]

Being able to run the ball in the red zone is very important.

However, if a team has no credible passing threat, and we did not with no Romo and a non-healthy Bryant, it's much tougher to then run in the red zone. Shorter field means teams don't have to play as deep with their DBs, etc. Condensed field makes running tougher.

No offense to you, but that's all a given in my mind.

What I'm asking is this: 3rd and goal from the 3. Big difference between 3 and 7 points right? You want Cowboys with McFadden at RB or Elliott?

 

[Sydla]

Regarding TOP....watch this.

Dallas kicks off, and Washington returns it for a touchdown.
Dallas then goes on a 8-play, 50-yard drive, which ends with Matt Cassel throwing a pick six.
Dallas then goes on a 6-play drive, then punts. Cousins hits Jackson on a 70-yard streak for a TD.
Dallas then goes on a 7-play drive, then punts again. It's returned for a touchdown.

Washington has about 50 seconds of TOP, but they're winning 28-0. Dallas has 9 minutes of TOP.

Worthless statistic.

You must be mistaken. I am not one making the TOP argument. It's your fellow Elliott fans rambling on about how Zeke running keeps the defense off the field longer............ you know, TOP. But the TOP numbers are pretty similar for 2014 and 2015. So their theory about keeping the D fresher doesn't seem to hold up.

So if you have a problem with TOP, take it up with them. They are the ones trying to use it in a pro-Elliott manner.

 

[Jake0]

Just once, I'd like a defense that is an elite unit that is the one that actually carries Tony Romo and not be the ones that need to be carried. I don't think he'll ever see it in his career unless he gets traded.

Personally, I'd much rather have gone Ramsey/Jack 1 and 2 and go with DMac/Morris/Jackson/Dunbar + maybe use another 6th rounder on another RB to battle it out in camp/preseason. Those 2 guys would have an immediate impact for sure and likely a huge impact in year 2. Oh well.

 

[KJJ]

You cited a difference in plays run that was larger than it really was.

I cited the number of plays that were "reported" and it's varied depending on who you listen to. Feel free to post the exact number of plays that were run according to your expertise.

 

[Sydla]

I never said anything about the value of the pick besides most everyone had Zeke as a top 5 player. The general consensus by everyone during the draft by both networks was that it was a good pick. The pick made a lot of sense because our OL couldn't make the average backs we had anything special because the back matters! Any back could have produced a 1000 yard season behind our OL, Randle would have had a 1000 yard season had he not been released.

But that's the whole point of why posters here had an issue with Elliott. Almost all agree he's a very talented player. But those saying we shouldn't have picked him are claiming that because of the value of taking a TB at four when you have the best OL in football. For you to suggest, as well, that all analysts agreed with that is just false. There were a few analysts, media types who questioned the logic in taking Elliott at 4 with our OL.

 

[MRV52]

And this would make a lot of sense if you saw a significant difference between the time the defense spent on the field in 2015 compared to 2014 when the defense was more effective.

Guess what? The defense wasn't on the field all that much more in 2015 than 2014.

You can look it at this way if you are going to mention that, the defense was outstanding for 3/4 of the game then, because it gave the offense lots of possessions Defense created lot of 3 and Outs. That offense was brutal how many times did it sustain drives of 8 to 10 min? I can see TOP increasing this year even higher than 2014 so it will make a difference and Elliot at #4 was a brilliant pick by the Front Office.

 

[KJJ]

But that's the whole point of why posters here had an issue with Elliott. Almost all agree he's a very talented player. But those saying we shouldn't have picked him are claiming that because of the value of taking a TB at four when you have the best OL in football. For you to suggest, as well, that all analysts agreed with that is just false. There were a few analysts, media types who questioned the logic in taking Elliott at 4 with our OL.

The best OL in football didn't look as good as it did the year before when we had a more talented runner. Go back and review some of the threads that were posted last season complaining that our OL is having a down year. The Rams had a great OL back in the late 70's early 80s with Jackie Slater but it never received much attention until Eric Dickerson showed up because the back matters!

 

[erod]

You must be mistaken. I am not one making the TOP argument. It's your fellow Elliott fans rambling on about how Zeke running keeps the defense off the field longer............ you know, TOP. But the TOP numbers are pretty similar for 2014 and 2015. So their theory about keeping the D fresher doesn't seem to hold up.

So if you have a problem with TOP, take it up with them. They are the ones trying to use it in a pro-Elliott manner.

It's not about any particular stat. Stats are for debate cripples. It's about football.

Zeke keeps drives going. He turns 3-yard runs into 8 (like Murray), and he turns 3rd-and-2 into a first down (also like Murray). But what he can especially do is turn 15 yards into 80, or a swing pass into the same. AND HE DOES NOT FUMBLE. He takes a lot of pressure off defenses by maximizing drives into punts (not turnovers), field goals (instead of punts), and touchdowns (instead of field goals).

 

[WillieBeamen]

Only on CZ have I seen that the back doesnt matter and its all the o-line that produces a good running game

 

[BrassCowboy]

No I love Zeke. I look forward to us running over people all day long. But it wasnt a prudent pick and from the 2nd round on, we did very little to help this team. Our FO is a joke and people around the NFL are laughing at us. But what else is new?

now see that is where we disagree.... this was actually a really good draft. Smith is top 5 player by most accounts but we were able to get him in 2nd round because of his injury and and the fact that he most likely (although he swears he will) won't play in 2016. He was predicted to be #1 this year if not for that. So when he comes back to play in 2017, all we paid for him was a 2nd round pick. Look at it like this: we traded our 2016 2nd round pick for a #1 next year except we will obviously still have a #1 but you get what I am saying.
Next two picks were very good ones in M. Collins, DT and Tapper, DE.
Dak Prescott, well this pick was very very good at this spot. this guy can play and will have time to get up to speed behind Romo. He can run, pass, is a leader and manages the games with confidence. One of my favorite picks.
first two picks of 6th round they grabbed a decent CB and S.
Not sure what you don't like. There will be differing opinions about this and that player, but I think FO actually handled this draft really well.

 

[The Quest for Six]

There was no defensive player that justified taking over Zeke. This defense got a lot of help in this draft. It's not like it was ignored.

Yes there was, his name was Ramsey