The Dez Bryant "Realistic Analysis" Thread

[iceberg]

Dez has had 2 years as a professional ... he runs 3 routes and cant read defenses. You can talk about talent and potential until you are blue in the face ... it doesnt erase those facts. Until he fixes his game he should not be given an extension and should be let go at the end of his contract. We took a chance on WR with issues. Those issues have managed to keep him at his current productivity levels on the field.

63 catches
928 yards
9 TD's.

seems he gets a lot out of "3" routes.

 

[Doomsday101]

63 catches
928 yards
9 TD's.

seems he gets a lot out of "3" routes.

Jack likes getting carried away with the same old 3 rout stuff. :laugh2:

 

[iceberg]

Jack likes getting carried away with the same old 3 rout stuff. :laugh2:

the dez hate is just getting carried away, period.

 

[Doomsday101]

the dez hate is just getting carried away, period.

Always does. Dallas failed to make post season every player is fair game. Face it, this is going to be a long off season.

 

[JackWagon]

Also took Dez less than 3 weeks after the season to get into a scrape in Miami.

 

[dadymat]

This should end well considering your "realistic" assumptions aren't necessarily based in factual evidence if you're relying on the media's biased opinion. Quick example? Dez's off the field troubles are highly disputed depending on the source. Some of the money issues are, but there's a ton of stuff we have no idea about so it sounds like you're making a judgement call based on what you choose to believe.

TBPH, this looks like it should be merged with another thread. Same stuff, new title.

exactly......

 

[Apollo Creed]

I'm about as big of a Bryant fan as there is in this entire world but he has a hard time getting seperation. (Excluding the last few games of the season where it seemed he was uncoverable, too bad Romo couldn't get enough time to find him). Early in the season Bryant's struggles weren't from a lack of physical skills, it's all mechanical, cutting with the wrong foot, giving away his routes with tells, failing to make route adjustments as coverages break down or as zones got recognized much quicker by his QB and other teammates.

He needs to put in that extra work this offseason in the film room and with Robinson on polishing up his route running. Because if he can have this kinda season running 3 routes with poor technique, imagine what he can do with a full arsenol and becoming a master of his craft.

I just don't think the light is gonna come on for him for a few more years, he's still really young (22)and has been getting away with doing things his way for years, and as much as we want to thinK Garrett is the rigorous task master that doesn't except laziness or mental errors, he certainly lets a lot of guys continuously get away with very bad habits. As much as we compare Bryant to Irvin, he doesn't have that off the field drive to be the absolute best. He plays with passion and practices hard, but those things are easy and come naturally to him. Studying and doing thing he isn't good at, are things he doesn't want to do - hence the simultaneous uber-motivated yet progress stopping personality.

But a better offensive line will be the cure all, suddenly our running game will be fixed, Felix will be an 'explosive' back again, Bryant will get an opportunity to run deeper routes as Romo will get better protection in the pocket and we'll be able to draw up more 7 step drops designed to stretch the field and get teams away from Tampa 2ing us to absolute death again this year.

SN: It will help that this team gets better corners for our receivers to go against in practice, because seeing Newman and Ball most of the season in practice really doesn't help you to get much better. Jenkins and Scandrick spent a lot of the season missing practice, so our 1s were never really going against 1s, more like 4s and 5s.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I have a feeling this analysis would've been completely different if Dez had played about 60 miles south of where he did.

 

[iceberg]

Also took Dez less than 3 weeks after the season to get into a scrape in Miami.

it was a kerfullel.

get it right.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I'm about as big of a Bryant fan as there is in this entire world but he has a hard time getting seperation.

Gotta remember that he had that thigh bruise.

I did think his route running improved in the second half of the season, but the injury held him back as well.

Plus, he was getting A LOT of double coverage.







YR

 

[tyke1doe]

Dez' off the field issues were a small part of my OP, and I think you missed the point entirely. As far as his off the field issues are concerned, there have been SEVERAL different events reported by the media concerning Dez. You don't hear any reporting of flaky things surrounding players like Witten, Ware, etc. Where there is CONSISTENT smoke, there is likely fire, and it is a red flag on that player.

This.

It's amazing that some players you hear nothing about in the media, and others you hear a lot about their off-field behavior.

 

[jterrell]

If you are going to to do "realisitc analysis" bro you gotta come with more than just your opinion.

You are a taking a middle of the road stance and seem to be fair to him but that isn't much in the way of analysis.

As to how to analyze there are tons of ways so you gotta take that as far as you'd like.

Production:
On his own: 2 seasons: 108 receptions, 1489 yards and 15 TDs.
Just looking at that I'ds say those are very fair number 2 WR numbers. Kid scores a Td every other game, has about 50 yards receiving per game. not bad at all. But hardly electric.

A closer look reveals only 15 starts in his career. So the numbers are a big above par for what you'd expect of a 2/3 WR.

Comparisons:
Part of the issue in analysis is Cowboys fans generally lack brain power. Most are front runners who only compare Dez to guys drafted int he top 5 or who have ascended to All Pro status. Which of course is a joke. Dez was selected 24th.

Here are the guys taken 20-32 in the drafts since 2007.

Dez, 24
Baldwin, 26
Demaryius, 22
Harvin, 22
Hakeem, 29
Kenny Britt, 30
Dwayne Bowe, 23
Robert Meachum, 27
Craig Davis, 30
Anthony Gonz, 32

Now in THAT analysis how does Dez compare?
This season only 3 guys on the list had more receiving yards: Nicks, Bowe and Harvin. All 3 are considered must keeps for their team.
ZERO had more receiving TDs than Dez. And none tied him as well.

My personal take: Dez is a young, emotional guy who will often ruffle feathers. But he isn't a criminal who is going to be in and out of jail. He isn't a bad guy, but he isn't a guy who can avoid headlines and keep his nose clean either. He is very like Irvin was. All passion and heart and probably just straight bi-polar. But a fiery guy who can lead on the field like many semi-crazy football players.

His production has been good but not great. His ability is great but his conditioning and ability to learn are fairly questioned. He has great hands but does not run great routes. He is a nightmare match up for DBs because he is probably the strongest pure WR in the NFL. Having Witten and Austin around helps him see softer coverage schemes but also gives Romo targets he trusts more. I do believe the lock out hurt Dez as much as any Cowboy. He was never in true NFL game shape this year. He was on the sideline far too often. That has to change and do so by next year. I'd wager my lunch money he has top notch production per snap.

 

[TheCoolFan]

He's underrated

 

[sonnyboy]

First off, let me say that this thread is not designed to be a let's bash Dez thread. It is intended to be my view of what Dez Bryant represents to this team.

First off, let's talk about Dez Bryant's talent level. I think Dez is a talented player who was not a wasted draft pick. He has been a serviceable player for the Cowboys who has flashed even more potential, as both a receiver and return man. His versatility, gives him added value. He is a decent quality starter in the NFL as far as pure talent is concerned. You can't "teach" size or athleticism. He obviously has both.

He is NOT a bust based on what he has done so far. However, in my opinion, he is not nearly the player that many on here believe him to be.

Let me be clear on this point. I do not believe that, at this point in his career, he is anywhere near the caliber of player that a guy like Calvin Johnson is. It is not even close. Dez is not chopped liver, but to value him like a Calvin Johnson type of player is just absurd.

Be objective and ask yourself, is he really better than Laurent Robinson? Is he better than a healthy Miles Austin? I would suggest that based on production he is the THIRD best receiver on his own team. At this point I am frustrated with the year that Miles Austin had, but assuming he is healthy I think he is a much better (and faster, and smarter) player than Dez is. Robinson was reliable game in and game out. I know Robinson is not "proven" but I don't think the year he had was a fluke.

It is entirely possible that Robinson will continue to outpace Dez in production. He seems to have Romo's trust.

Dez' off the field issues are well documented. He obviously has quite a few errors in judgment in such a short NFL career. While I don't really care as much about character as most do in this overly politically correct choirboy NFL, if Dez' off the field issues continue, they indicate a mentality that is counter productive to a cohesive team. I think Dez may be a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Those are distractions that the Cowboys simply don't need.

One more thing. It seems that Dez' route running in the past has been suspect because he either has no clue what route he is running, or isn't running the routes precisely and crisply like they are supposed be run because he is just too lazy to do it.

The last reason is the thing that really concerns me about Dez. He has had ample time to learn what routes he is supposed to run. It is obvious that Tony Romo does not trust him in certain situations. That fact is huge, because if you look back, Tony Romo has been the type of QB who throws it to the open guy no matter who it was.... especially early in his career. I think the exception to that rule was when he sometimes forced the ball to T.O. to try to keep him happy. In the long run ... that never works.

Why not come out and say what your true concern is.......you believe we may not sign Robinson. You believe the team sees Robinson as the #3, want to pay him like a #3 and this may lead to his departure.

You believe Robinson is better than Dez and no one who doesn't dislike Dez or has half a brain will agree with you.

And I really like the kid. I've agrued on thi ssite that this team was inches from a 10 win season and probably should have been a 10 win team.

Well I'm even more certain that had we not signed Robinson and his snaps were allocated to Ogletree, Holley and Harris.......We may have finished 6-10.

Robinson was huge for us this season, but that was this season. You have to look forward and project the needs for 2012 and allocated resources accordingly.

Austin and Dez will be 2 starters. We need to fill/replace/resign/draft enough players to man at least FIVE of the other 22 starting spots.

I don't want to resign Robinson...
IF it means Scandrick is our starting LCB...
IF we're not upgrading TWO interior OL spots...
IF we're not resigning Spencer or upgrading from him...
IF we're not resigning Elam or upgrading from him.....

All that supercedes who will be our #3 WR.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

Dez has had 2 years as a professional ... he runs 3 routes and cant read defenses. You can talk about talent and potential until you are blue in the face ... it doesnt erase those facts. Until he fixes his game he should not be given an extension and should be let go at the end of his contract. We took a chance on WR with issues. Those issues have managed to keep him at his current productivity levels on the field.

Since you know so much, please take the test below:

Question 1: Which 3 routes does Bryant know how to run?

Question 2: Which other routes does Bryant NOT know how to run; what are they, and which ones is it imperative he master?

Question 3: What part of defensive alligment and coverage does Bryant not read well; can you provide two distinct examples where Bryant misred the defense and that led to a negative play?

Question 4: On plays where Bryant either makes a good reception or scores a TD, does he also misread defenses and coverages as well? If so then how do you explain the positive production?

Thanks!

 

[jterrell]

Why not come out and say what your true concern is.......you believe we may not sign Robinson. You believe the team sees Robinson as the #3, want to pay him like a #3 and this may lead to his departure.

You believe Robinson is better than Dez and no one who doesn't dislike Dez or has half a brain will agree with you.

And I really like the kid. I've agrued on thi ssite that this team was inches from a 10 win season and probably should have been a 10 win team.

Well I'm even more certain that had we not signed Robinson and his snaps were allocated to Ogletree, Holley and Harris.......We may have finished 6-10.

Robinson was huge for us this season, but that was this season. You have to look forward and project the needs for 2012 and allocated resources accordingly.

Austin and Dez will be 2 starters. We need to fill/replace/resign/draft enough players to man at least FIVE of the other 22 starting spots.

I don't want to resign Robinson...
IF it means Scandrick is our starting LCB...
IF we're not upgrading TWO interior OL spots...
IF we're not resigning Spencer or upgrading from him...
IF we're not resigning Elam or upgrading from him.....

All that takes supercedes who will be our #3 WR.

If you look at the WR corps Robinson is a need sign. Austin probably needs to be cut if he can't stay healthy next year. His career has proven tricky to navigate for 16 games. And he is paid like a top 5 WR. I seriously doubt after a half season Robinson is now going to get elite WR money. He is a good player but has hardly proven he can be a great one.

But Dez is on a ROOKIE deal. We can easily sign Robinson, then decide next off-season which two of the big 3 WRs to keep.

We also have to keep in mind that Witten may drop off quite a bit next year as a pass catcher if Bennett leaves. That makes a productive 3rd WR very necessary.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

If you look at the WR corps Robinson is a need sign. Austin probably needs to be cut if he can't stay healthy next year. His career has proven tricky to navigate for 16 games. And he is paid like a top 5 WR. I seriously doubt after a half season Robinson is now going to get elite WR money. He is a good player but has hardly proven he can be a great one.

But Dez is on a ROOKIE deal. We can easily sign Robinson, then decide next off-season which two of the big 3 WRs to keep.

We also have to keep in mind that Witten may drop off quite a bit next year as a pass catcher if Bennett leaves. That makes a productive 3rd WR very necessary.

Remember that John Phillips will finally be 2 years recovered from his knee injury, which is how long it takes to get back to 100% form with what he had. So I think Phillips will be much improved, and a force, next year at the TE spot. So e can fill in for Witten at TE as a receiver.

This has nothing to do with Bennett as he is no more than a blocking TE. You can easily find those in day 2 of the draft. Those draftees may not block as well as Bennett, since he's one of the best blocking TEs in the NFL, but they can be more than adequate if you have the right OTs in place - and Dalas will, once they flip Free and Smith.

 

[Dodger]

If you are going to to do "realisitc analysis" bro you gotta come with more than just your opinion.

You are a taking a middle of the road stance and seem to be fair to him but that isn't much in the way of analysis.

As to how to analyze there are tons of ways so you gotta take that as far as you'd like.

Production:
On his own: 2 seasons: 108 receptions, 1489 yards and 15 TDs.
Just looking at that I'ds say those are very fair number 2 WR numbers. Kid scores a Td every other game, has about 50 yards receiving per game. not bad at all. But hardly electric.

A closer look reveals only 15 starts in his career. So the numbers are a big above par for what you'd expect of a 2/3 WR.

Comparisons:
Part of the issue in analysis is Cowboys fans generally lack brain power. Most are front runners who only compare Dez to guys drafted int he top 5 or who have ascended to All Pro status. Which of course is a joke. Dez was selected 24th.

Here are the guys taken 20-32 in the drafts since 2007.

Dez, 24
Baldwin, 26
Demaryius, 22
Harvin, 22
Hakeem, 29
Kenny Britt, 30
Dwayne Bowe, 23
Robert Meachum, 27
Craig Davis, 30
Anthony Gonz, 32

Now in THAT analysis how does Dez compare?
This season only 3 guys on the list had more receiving yards: Nicks, Bowe and Harvin. All 3 are considered must keeps for their team.
ZERO had more receiving TDs than Dez. And none tied him as well.

My personal take: Dez is a young, emotional guy who will often ruffle feathers. But he isn't a criminal who is going to be in and out of jail. He isn't a bad guy, but he isn't a guy who can avoid headlines and keep his nose clean either. He is very like Irvin was. All passion and heart and probably just straight bi-polar. But a fiery guy who can lead on the field like many semi-crazy football players.

His production has been good but not great. His ability is great but his conditioning and ability to learn are fairly questioned. He has great hands but does not run great routes. He is a nightmare match up for DBs because he is probably the strongest pure WR in the NFL. Having Witten and Austin around helps him see softer coverage schemes but also gives Romo targets he trusts more. I do believe the lock out hurt Dez as much as any Cowboy. He was never in true NFL game shape this year. He was on the sideline far too often. That has to change and do so by next year. I'd wager my lunch money he has top notch production per snap.

Good stuff.

We also have to keep in mind that Witten may drop off quite a bit next year as a pass catcher if Bennett leaves. That makes a productive 3rd WR very necessary.

I'm not sure why you'd think this might happen, though. Witten has a history of producing no matter who comes or goes on this team.

 

[jterrell]

Remember that John Phillips will finally be 2 years recovered from his knee injury, which is how long it takes to get back to 100% form with what he had. So I think Phillips will be much improved, and a force, next year at the TE spot. So e can fill in for Witten at TE as a receiver.

This has nothing to do with Bennett as he is no more than a blocking TE. You can easily find those in day 2 of the draft. Those draftees may not block as well as Bennett, since he's one of the best blocking TEs in the NFL, but they can be more than adequate if you have the right OTs in place - and Dalas will, once they flip Free and Smith.

Bennett has graded out the highest as a blocking TE for a few years now so we will not be replacing that ability in the draft unless we get extremely lucky. He graded out higher blocking DE's than Doug Free this year FWIW. PFP numbers....

I agree that Phillips should be better and should provide a solid #2 if that is his role but he won't compare at all to Witten as a receiver or Bennett as a blocker. He'll just be a guy who can do both when asked to. Witten will need to block more often, especially on passing downs. Phillips was terrible as a blocker this year. He is a decent in-line blocker but failed miserably as the H-Back. Hopefully he bounces back to the point of 2 years ago. I agree he has a real chance to do so.

I have to come to the conclusion Bennett will definitely be back. I do not think Dallas wants to play two young OTs without that level of blocker beside them.

 

[jterrell]

Good stuff.

I'm not sure why you'd think this might happen, though. Witten has a history of producing no matter who comes or goes on this team.

Witten is aging but also he will have to block more on passing downs if they lose the best blocking TE in football. You can't catch passes while in to block.

Witten does consistently produce but his numbers also vary as a receiver. He caught 94 passes in 09 and 10 but only 79 last year. He is only 30 but is about to hit 10 years of NFL play. That's a tremendous wear and tear at TE.

In 05 and 06 he was down to 60+ catches because he had to block more. We drafted Fasano and Bennett in relatively short order because we wanted to keep Witten catching passes. When Fasano proved an unreliable blocker we kicked him to the curb and immediately drafted Bennett. Witten has averaged 86 catches per year with Bennett on the roster as the blocking TE.