The Fowler offsides call. Was this a legal play?

[rambo2]

Huh?

Yeah, that’s a legal movement. How else do you think guys go in motion?

From the different angle on tv, it didn't look right.

 

[Booger]

Fowler shouldve been looking at the ball.

Simple really.....don't be a hero.

 

[Zman5]

It's a cheap trick that everyone uses to get defenders to jump offside. They start motioning a player as the QB does a hard count. The simultaneous hard count and the movement of the player is design to fool the defender. I can't believe Fowler fell for that trick. I'm sure him being a veteran saw this trick before.

 

[charron]

Fowler has had several penalties. He needs to sit down and let the young sammy play.

 

[DandyDon52]

Fowler shouldve been looking at the ball.

thats what madden always said, but these guys today never look at the ball lol.

 

[Ken]

Great coaching. Malotta quickly moves his head as the motion man move in sequence. So it was planned and it worked. Fowler was not watching the ball but the OL. When the TE/OL went in motion the OL in front of him snap his head and the rest is explained in the video.

Hurts also started his cadence as all of this happened. Basically....they targeted that side of line to jump and simulated a start of a play as closely as they could.

Good attention to detail for a very specific situation.

 

[lostar2009]

thats what madden always said, but these guys today never look at the ball lol.

Some of the elite guys try to jump the snap count. A hair faster while the ball is snap. This too at times can get you in trouble. But what Fowler did, I dunno.

 

[Doomsday]

You have to watch the ball, not the players in motion.

 

[Creeper]

The guy that goes in motion did a jump step to intentionally draw him offsides. Is this a legal play? Can somebody post the video of the play?

Here is the rule:

Notice the wording of part (b). It is only a penalty if the defensive player's motion causes the offensive player in close proximity to react. But the intention is to not call an offensive penalty is an offensive player reacts to the defensive players movement. What we are seeing now is offensive players waiting for defensive players to get in the neutral zone then they jump up and point to the defensive player. That to me is not in the spirit of the rule. The refs should call that a false start on the offensive player since the ball has not been snapped. The offensive players did not react to Fowler's motion other than to signal to the ref he moved across the plane of the neutral zone. It is a bad rule IMO.

IMO, the refs should only call it against the defender if he does not return to his side of the LOS before the snap, or the defender causes a legitimate reaction by an offensive player. It is already a penalty for an offensive player or a defensive player do something to deliberately draw someone offsides. Yet this play is legal.

ARTICLE 4. NEUTRAL ZONE INFRACTION
It is a Neutral Zone Infraction when:

(a) a defender moves beyond the neutral zone prior to the snap and is parallel to or beyond an offensive lineman, with an unimpeded path to the quarterback or kicker, even though no contact is made by a blocker; officials are to blow their whistles immediately
(b) a defender enters the neutral zone prior to the snap, causing the offensive player(s) in close proximity (including a quarterback who is under center) to react (move) immediately to protect himself (themselves) against impending contact; officials are to blow their whistles immediately. If there is no immediate reaction by the offensive player(s) in close proximity, and the defensive player returns to a legal position prior to the snap without contacting an opponent, there is no foul. A flexed or split receiver is considered to be in close proximity if he is lined up on the side of the ball on which the violation occurs; other offensive players are considered to be in close proximity if they are within two-and-one-half positions of the defender who enters the neutral zone. If the defender is directly over the center, a quarterback under center, the center, and the guards and tackles on both sides of the center are considered to be within close proximity; if the defender is in a gap, the two offensive players on either side of the gap are considered to be within close proximity (including a quarterback under center, if applicable)
(c) a player, after he has received a warning, enters the neutral zone. It is a foul, even if he returns to a legal position prior to the snap without contacting an opponent or causing a reaction (movement) by an offensive player in close proximity.

Note: During the last two minutes of a half, after the ball has been spotted for the succeeding down at the line of scrimmage and the offense is legally set, if the ball is snapped before all members of the defensive team are on their side of the line of scrimmage, play shall be stopped immediately, and the defensive team penalized five yards for a neutral zone infraction.

Penalty: For a Neutral Zone Infraction: Loss of five yards from line of scrimmage. Foul is enforced prior to snap.

 

[FanofJerry]

7:50 of this video seems to suggest this play is pretty scummy. Im sure all teams do scummy things.

 

[Beast_from_East]

The guy that goes in motion did a jump step to intentionally draw him offsides. Is this a legal play? Can somebody post the video of the play?

Yes, the play was totally legal. The guy went in motion at the same time Hurts hard counts to simulate the play starting.

Usually, you try to confuse a rookie and get him to jump thinking its an actual play, but occasionally you will trick a vet player if their IQ is fairly low, like Fowler.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I couldn't remember what play it was but it seemed like they got Hendershot with doing something similar didn't they?

I think Hendershot was the one in illegal motion drifting forward.

Thought I saw an Eagle LT draw one of our DEs offsides with a little head twitch. Then pat him on the head as a "Welcome to the NFL, Junior".

Eagles looked consistently smarter than us. So many dumb penalties. Diggs takes his helmet off for 15. Just a dumb dead ball foul.

 

[Cowboys22]

The olinemen can’t move once set so it’s pretty fair
Once a defender crosses the LOS then a smart linemen can touch them
It’s not the rules fault Fowler was stupid and didn’t know the situation

You are forgetting that the OL knows the snap count so in honestly it is not truly fair when you have a QB can utilize hard counts and head movements and OL and motion guys can work in unison to fake a DL. If a DL does not make contact and is not even close to making contact, he should be allowed to get back just like it was forever. They are at a disadvantage to begin with. This is just another example of changing a rule that didn’t need fixing. OL know the snap count and are not allowed to move until the ball is snapped. Without contact or significant threat of being run over, the OL should not be allowed to move.

 

[BotchedLobotomy]

The guy that goes in motion did a jump step to intentionally draw him offsides. Is this a legal play? Can somebody post the video of the play?

The only illegal thing in the video is an idiot player getting played.

 

[nightrain]

It's was definitely a fowler.

 

[sbark]

I agree. Was saying the same last night.

The original rule is defensive players could step across the line as long as they were back before the snap.

Then it became a penalty if the defender jumped offsides in a manner that made the defender feel he was going to be hit and caused him to flinch or move

Now if a defender steps a toe across an O-Lineman that isn't even lined up across from him can stand up and point and cause a penalty to be called.

Next rule change --- if the defender across the line has offensive breath and the odor wafts across the line of scrimmage it will be considered a penalty.

As per Aikman....put dresses on Qb and Oline. Lol

 

[EversonIWasAYoungBoy]

Huh?

Yeah, that’s a legal movement. How else do you think guys go in motion?

They sashay

 

[Sydla]

From the different angle on tv, it didn't look right.

Well from every other camera angle it looked fine. There was nothing weird about it. A guy went in motion.

It was just a dumb play by Fowler.

 

[Sydla]

How has the stupidity of "this" team cost them games? They have only lost 2 games. How can you not like this team?

Goes beyond this season. For much of McCarthy's tenure, this team has a bad habit of making dumb penalties. Last year was particularly egregious with penalties. You can't beat a good team doing dumb things like jumping offsides in that situation.

But I understand............. you struggle mightily with criticizing the Cowboys. You starting a thread somehow trying to justify Fowler's screw up on that play says it all.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Here is the rule:

Notice the wording of part (b). It is only a penalty if the defensive player's motion causes the offensive player in close proximity to react. But the intention is to not call an offensive penalty is an offensive player reacts to the defensive players movement. What we are seeing now is offensive players waiting for defensive players to get in the neutral zone then they jump up and point to the defensive player. That to me is not in the spirit of the rule. The refs should call that a false start on the offensive player since the ball has not been snapped. The offensive players did not react to Fowler's motion other than to signal to the ref he moved across the plane of the neutral zone. It is a bad rule IMO.

IMO, the refs should only call it against the defender if he does not return to his side of the LOS before the snap, or the defender causes a legitimate reaction by an offensive player. It is already a penalty for an offensive player or a defensive player do something to deliberately draw someone offsides. Yet this play is legal.

ARTICLE 4. NEUTRAL ZONE INFRACTION
It is a Neutral Zone Infraction when:

(a) a defender moves beyond the neutral zone prior to the snap and is parallel to or beyond an offensive lineman, with an unimpeded path to the quarterback or kicker, even though no contact is made by a blocker; officials are to blow their whistles immediately
(b) a defender enters the neutral zone prior to the snap, causing the offensive player(s) in close proximity (including a quarterback who is under center) to react (move) immediately to protect himself (themselves) against impending contact; officials are to blow their whistles immediately. If there is no immediate reaction by the offensive player(s) in close proximity, and the defensive player returns to a legal position prior to the snap without contacting an opponent, there is no foul. A flexed or split receiver is considered to be in close proximity if he is lined up on the side of the ball on which the violation occurs; other offensive players are considered to be in close proximity if they are within two-and-one-half positions of the defender who enters the neutral zone. If the defender is directly over the center, a quarterback under center, the center, and the guards and tackles on both sides of the center are considered to be within close proximity; if the defender is in a gap, the two offensive players on either side of the gap are considered to be within close proximity (including a quarterback under center, if applicable)
(c) a player, after he has received a warning, enters the neutral zone. It is a foul, even if he returns to a legal position prior to the snap without contacting an opponent or causing a reaction (movement) by an offensive player in close proximity.

Note: During the last two minutes of a half, after the ball has been spotted for the succeeding down at the line of scrimmage and the offense is legally set, if the ball is snapped before all members of the defensive team are on their side of the line of scrimmage, play shall be stopped immediately, and the defensive team penalized five yards for a neutral zone infraction.

Penalty: For a Neutral Zone Infraction: Loss of five yards from line of scrimmage. Foul is enforced prior to snap.

Lol, scummy?

That’s gamesmanship all within the rules of the game.

I’m guessing you have zero issue when our QBs draw defenders offside with their cadence?