CFZ The Greatness of Zack Martin

[OmerV]

In my opinion, "They" don't collectively tell Jerry to draft Jaylon Smith and Randy Gregory in the 2nd. You would be hard pressed to convince me Will McClay did that.

NFL GMs usually start taking those character/drug/injury risk reward assessments in the 4th rd and beyond.

It seems Jerry has been allowed to play with his hobby/football team beginning in the second round because his group has an agreed upon more consensus approach (given from Jerry) to handle the1st rd choice collectively.

It all boils down to the last decision maker and using "they" in the round one choices and Jerry in round 2 is about the only way it can be explained based on past choices and outcomes of said choices. The approach is not uniform whatsoever when comparing rounds 1 and 2.

Ultimately, Jerry has final say.
The team got lucky in my view that he did not and hopefully continues to not execute his personal final say in round one and stays with the group think approach to first rd selections that HE personally agreed to.

And to which HE has the ability to personally choose to not go with their choice as well.

That would be extremely "un" lucky if HE did so.

jmo

I don't know how it played out with Jaylon Smith and Gregory, but I don't disagree with your comment on that. But whether it was Jerry alone that made those choices, or a collective of the group, it wasn't luck, good or bad, that was responsible for the choice. It was Jerry making the choice based either on recommendations or his own preference.

That he may at times take too many risks may say something about Jerry not being very smart about the draft at times, but that still isn't about luck either. It's about choices he makes, some of which are bad ones.

I completely agree Jerry has final say, including, as you said, the ability to not go with the choice the others prefer. But that also includes the ability to go with the choice the others prefer. That he did with Martin was, as with everything discussed above, a choice, not some weird twist of fate or "luck" Jerry had no control over.

 

[75boyz]

I don't know how it played out with Jaylon Smith and Gregory, but I don't disagree with your comment on that. But whether it was Jerry alone that made those choices, or a collective of the group, it wasn't luck, good or bad, that was responsible for the choice. It was Jerry making the choice based either on recommendations or his own preference.

That he may at times take too many risks may say something about Jerry not being very smart about the draft at times, but that still isn't about luck either. It's about choices he makes, some of which are bad ones.

I completely agree Jerry has final say, including, as you said, the ability to not go with the choice the others prefer. But that also includes the ability to go with the choice the others prefer. That he did with Martin was, as with everything discussed above, a choice, not some weird twist of fate or "luck" Jerry had no control over.

While I see the draft day specifics concerning not only Zack over Manziel, but also Dak over Lynch and the other Mich State kid and Micah over Surtain all as strong levels of luck involved as to how each situation played out, you see it differently. Just as Jerry not going with his choice of Manziel is lucky for the team.

Just like it would be unlucky if Manziel had have actually been the choice. While you are supporting the more democratic, structured group vote draft pick it still is Jerry's call. The team is lucky that their stubborn owner has not over ridden the group(YET) so they continue to be lucky in that regard, OR that the other draft day circumstances did not occur the way they did which again is another prime example of luck benefitting the team.
This is not planned by Jerry's team.
This is not intentional nor pre meditated.

It's lucky how all of it turned out. Plain and simple.


Especially when what Jerry's original choices are revealed. For instance, in the cases of Dak and Micah's selection, it was not something in their control that other teams did last second maneuverings ahead of them or taking Jerry's usually already known to the public pick. It is sheer luck that the Cowboys benefitted from the other teams' gaffe.

You do not see it this way.
Got it.

Different interpretations of the word.
Fair enough, no worries.

 

[OmerV]

While I see the draft day specifics concerning not only Zack over Manziel, but also Dak over Lynch and the other Mich State kid and Micah over Surtain all as strong levels of luck involved as to how each situation played out, you see it differently.

Especially when what Jerry's original choices are revealed. For instance, in the cases of Dak and Micah's selection, it was not something in their control that other teams did last second maneuverings ahead of them to take Jerry's pick. It is sheer luck that the Cowboys benefitted from the other teams' gaffe.

You do not see it this way.
Got it.

Different interpretations of the word.
Fair enough, no worries.

Of course every NFL team at the time liked Lynch more than Dak. But these remarks just speak to Jerry often not making the best choices, not luck intervening. At least Jerry didn't give away whatever the Broncos were asking to get Lynch.

And of course everything throughout a draft isn't in a team's control, and every team has to choose from what is available when their turn comes. That isn't a Jerry or Cowboy thing, that's just how the draft works.

But that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about a specific choice between two specific players at a specific point in a specific draft. At that point what happened earlier in the draft is irrelevant to the choice that had to be made. It's just do we take this guy or that guy. Jerry had the wrong mind on which he wanted, but ultimately he chose to go with what others advised. Again, that was a choice Jerry controlled.

For what it's worth, it's not bad luck either when Jerry goes against the rest of the group and takes a player that doesn't work out. That too is a choice.

 

[75boyz]

Of course every NFL team at the time liked Lynch more than Dak. But these remarks just speak to Jerry often not making the best choices, not luck intervening. At least Jerry didn't give away whatever the Broncos were asking to get Lynch.

And of course everything throughout a draft isn't in a team's control, and every team has to choose from what is available when their turn comes. That isn't a Jerry or Cowboy thing, that's just how the draft works.

But that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about a specific choice between two specific players at a specific point in a specific draft. At that point what happened earlier in the draft is irrelevant to the choice that had to be made. It's just do we take this guy or that guy. Jerry had the wrong mind on which he wanted, but ultimately he chose to go with what others advised. Again, that was a choice Jerry controlled.

For what it's worth, it's not bad luck either when Jerry goes against the rest of the group and takes a player that doesn't work out. That too is a choice.

So, if I've got it straight, the outcome of Jerry listening to his group and not choosing his Manziel pick is a choice and no luck involved in that he did not over rule them.

The fact that Denver took Lynch and Jerry could not choose him was just how the draft works and also no luck involved.

The same draft principle appliesd in the case of Surtain having been already selected and Jerry getting Micah was a consolation prize. because that's just how the draft works.

So, if you bundle it all up everything that occurred was an actively controlled choice by Jerry and/or Jerry and team.

I'll stick with a whole lotta lucky circumstances took place in order for these second choice options to occur which benefitted the team more than if the original draft plan choice had been taken.

Imo, Jerry and draft team got very lucky based on circumstance. Not choice.

 

[OmerV]

So, if I've got it straight, the outcome of Jerry listening to his group and not choosing his Manziel pick is a choice and no luck involved in that he did not over rule them.

The fact that Denver took Lynch and Jerry could not choose him was just how the draft works and also no luck involved.

The same draft principle appliesd in the case of Surtain having been already selected and Jerry getting Micah was a consolation prize. because that's just how the draft works.

So, if you bundle it all up everything that occurred was an actively controlled choice by Jerry and/or Jerry and team.

I'll stick with a whole lotta lucky circumstances took place in order for these second choice options to occur which benefitted the team more than if the original draft plan choice had been taken.

Imo, Jerry and draft team got very lucky based on circumstance. Not choice.

Correct, because when faced at that specific point in time with choosing Martin or Manziel it wasn't a mysterious twist of luck that intervened to make that decision, it was a conscious choice.

Again, we were talking about the choice between those specific players at that specific time, not the events that led to them both being available.

And, again, luck is something that happens to you that is outside your control. The choice at that specific moment to go with Manziel or Martin was completely within Jerry's control.

Lynch is an entirely different situation. Jerry didn't have the choice to take Lynch. Lynch was never on the board when the Cowboys had a draft pick.

 

[terra]

Correct, because when faced at that specific point in time with choosing Martin or Manziel it wasn't a mysterious twist of luck that intervened to make that decision, it was a conscious choice.

Again, we were talking about the choice between those specific players at that specific time, not the events that led to them both being available.

And, again, luck is something that happens to you that is outside your control. The choice at that specific moment to go with Manziel or Martin was completely within Jerry's control.

Lynch is an entirely different situation. Jerry didn't have the choice to take Lynch. Lynch was never on the board when the Cowboys had a draft pick.

Yet Jerry said he would have taken lynch if he had been there.
You keep trying to defend Jerry but you are just proving the point that he is probably the worst GM in the NFL since Matt Millen.

 

[OmerV]

Yet Jerry said he would have taken lynch if he had been there.
You keep trying to defend Jerry but you are just proving the point that he is probably the worst GM in the NFL since Matt Millen.

I didn't say he wouldn't have taken Lynch if he had been there. That has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

You're second comment doesn't either. I think Jerry is a terrible GM.

You really didn't understand the context of the discussion when you jumped into it