The Lance to Cropper Behind The Back Incomplete Pass

[DallasEast]

During last Saturday's game/1st Half thread, a sub-discussion started about the second quarter, 3rd & 5 Trey Lance pass that was thrown behind Jalen Cropper. Some members basically admitted the pass was difficult like any other throw behind the receiver's body but that it was catchable. Other members disagreed and stated the pass was impossible for Cropper to catch.

It was said that the film, proving the behind the receiver's back pass--like every behind the receiver's back pass--was impossible for any receiver to catch, would be posted. It is Tuesday. Video has been posted but does not state the pass was impossible to catch. In fact, @SultanOfSix 's thread OP of J.T. Sullivan's video, between the 4:13 - 5:58 video marks, the creator states:

"Could he catch it? Absolutely. Yeah. I am not saying he shouldn't. Could the ball placement be better? Yes. Is this a quarterback-centric channel? Yes."

I don't know? Me? I think that is a fair assessment of the play of both the quarterback and receiver's responsibility from a quarterback bias critic.

The following are three still photos. Each of images are split seconds in succession when the ball arrives, the catch is attempted and where the ball is afterwards. A real-time video (34 seconds long) is posted beneath them. A video link (stupid NFL YouTube ) is an example beneath it "proving" it is impossible for any receiver to catch a pass thrown beneath them within their catch radius:

Click here for a behind the back reception



I have said it for years. Every player has responsibilities. Every reception is not the sole responsibility of any quarterback. Intended teammates, who have a pass thrown within their catch radius, should catch the pass thrown to them. Receiving difficulty increases from great-to-poor according to the type of pass thrown.

Passes thrown over the teammates' hands are not catchable. Passes thrown in the dirt are not catchable. Passes thrown beyond a teammate arm's reach, a.k.a. catch radius, are impossible to catch. Teammates can and should leap and dive for catchable passes.

Finally. In my opinion, no wide receiver or tight end--high school, college, pro--should be taken off the hook for passes they should catch. Again. WHAT IS A RECEIVER'S FIRST AND ONLY RESPONSIBILITY WHEN A PASSED BALL REACHES THEM? What are NFL receivers and tight ends paid hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of dollars to do BEFORE they gain any yards AFTER the catch?

Yeah. Exactly.

 

[CWR]

During last Saturday's game/1st Half thread, a sub-discussion started about the second quarter, 3rd & 5 Trey Lance pass that was thrown behind Jalen Cropper. Some members basically admitted the pass was difficult like any other throw behind the receiver's body but that it was catchable. Other members disagreed and stated the pass was impossible for Cropper to catch.

It was said that the film, proving the behind the receiver's back pass--like every behind the receiver's back pass--was impossible for any receiver to catch, would be posted. It is Tuesday. Video has been posted but does not state the pass was impossible to catch. In fact, @SultanOfSix 's thread OP of J.T. Sullivan's video, between the 4:13 - 5:58 video marks, the creator states:

"Could he catch it? Absolutely. Yeah. I am not saying he shouldn't. Could the ball placement be better? Yes. Is this a quarterback-centric channel? Yes."

I don't know? Me? I think that is a fair assessment of the play of both the quarterback and receiver's responsibility from a quarterback bias critic.

The following are three still photos. Each of images are split seconds in succession when the ball arrives, the catch is attempted and where the ball is afterwards. A real-time video (34 seconds long) is posted beneath them. A video link (stupid NFL YouTube ) is an example beneath it "proving" it is impossible for any receiver to catch a pass thrown beneath them within their catch radius:

Click here for a behind the back reception



I have said it for years. Every player has responsibilities. Every reception is not the sole responsibility of any quarterback. Intended teammates, who have a pass thrown within their catch radius, should catch the pass thrown to them. Receiving difficulty increases from great-to-poor according to the type of pass thrown.

Passes thrown over the teammates' hands are not catchable. Passes thrown in the dirt are not catchable. Passes thrown beyond a teammate arm's reach, a.k.a. catch radius, are impossible to catch. Teammates can and should leap and dive for catchable passes.

Finally. In my opinion, no wide receiver or tight end--high school, college, pro--should be taken off the hook for passes they should catch. Again. WHAT IS A RECEIVER'S FIRST AND ONLY RESPONSIBILITY WHEN A PASSED BALL REACHES THEM? What are NFL receivers and tight ends paid hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of dollars to do BEFORE they gain any yards AFTER the catch?

Yeah. Exactly.

It should've been caught and I think Cropper would admit that. It was in his arms.

That said it's a pretty routine bad pass/bad catch play. They can both take some blame. Imo

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

It is a bad throw and a drop. Both can be true. Lance has been a bit unlucky with the receiver play in the preseason.

That said, this is the product of the timing being off. The ball is thrown late, so there is no room to lead the WR. Ball needs to be out before Cropper makes his break.

 

[DallasEast]

It should've been caught and I think Cropper would admit that. It was in his arms.

That said it's a pretty routine bad pass/bad catch play. They can both take some blame. Imo

Bold> Exactly.

This thread was just an opportunity for me to vent. I run into this nonsense on and off-line. Every pass will not be perfectly thrown.

Yes. The quarterback should always throw an optimally receivable pass. The best quarterbacks to ever play the game at any level have never thrown every pass perfectly. It does not matter. Receivers should catch passes that are catchable. It is a simple as that.

 

[DallasEast]

It is a bad throw and a drop. Both can be true.

Lance has been a bit unlucky with the receiver play in the preseason.

Bold> Yes. That is not disputed. The disagreement was simple. Some members said the poor pass was catchable. Other members stated the poor pass was impossible to catch.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Bold> Yes. That is not disputed. The disagreement was simple. Some members said the poor pass was catchable. Other members stated the poor pass was impossible to catch.

To be fair it might be impossible for Cropper, because he seems to drop everything in the preseason lol

 

[Whiskey Cowboy]

He's on an NFL roster fighting for a spot. The ball hit him in the shoulder. He needs to catch that one. It's not an easy ball to bring in, but these guys don't get paid to make easy plays.

 

[shabazz]

Bold> Exactly.

This thread was just an opportunity for me to vent. I run into this nonsense on and off-line. Every pass will not be perfectly thrown.

Yes. The quarterback should always throw an optimally receivable pass. The best quarterbacks to ever play the game at any level have never thrown every pass perfectly. It does not matter. Receivers should catch passes that are catchable. It is a simple as that.

Naturally we have to take into account what type of duress a qb is under at the time of release as well as where the defender is located.

A lot is happening in the blink of an eye.

 

[DallasEast]

To be fair it might be impossible for Cropper, because he seems to drop everything in the preseason lol

Okay. That's funny.

On a serious note, that is what I have also talked about forever. Some receivers are not good enough to be receivers. The same is true of all positions according to their individual responsibilities.

 

[DallasEast]

He's on an NFL roster fighting for a spot. The ball hit him in the shoulder. He needs to catch that one. It's not an easy ball to bring in, but these guys don't get paid to make easy plays.

I am not only crapping on Cropper and his current opportunity. I hold veteran receivers to the same standard too.

 

[DallasEast]

Naturally we have to take into account what type of duress a qb is under at the time of release as well as where the defender is located.

A lot is happening in the blink of an eye.

That observation is putting emphasis on the quarterback. It inadvertently decreases or eliminates the receiver's responsibility after the quarterback has released the ball.

 

[McKDaddy]

Couple random thoughts.

Pass was clearly catchable & also clearly not where it needed to be.

There was a pass during the game very similar to this that I would like to know if it was on purpose. There was a defender in front of & deeper than receiver. It seemed the throw might have been intended to slow\stop the receiver so defender couldn't unload on him or at least less so. I believe broadcast crew also mentioned this.

I caught a piece of Club Shay Shay podcast the other day and Sharpe was talking about playing with a QB after Elway and being shocked that the "other" QB led him into big hits. Elway had always protected the receivers with ball placement & Sharpe just assumed all NFL QB's did. To the point he knew where defenders were when the ball was in flight. That's the unstatable things truly elite QB's do.

 

[Jarntt]

The extremes we go to in an attempt to prove our agendas. In your first picture he is still moving and the ball hasn't reached him yet. Still photos are misleading as can be seen when people try to use them to show a receiver was open for a millisecond. If you don't understand how when running straight across the field that a pass behind you is very difficult to catch, well then, here we are. Of course he "could have" caught it. It was a bad throw. If he expected it to be behind him he could have attempted to go to the ground and secure it. He was too close to react like that so he had to keep running and try and reach back and grab it all while coming out of his cut, locating the ball and running away from where the ball was thrown. Lance threw a poor pass on that play. It's ok to admit it. It doesn't mean he will throw a poor pass on every play of his career or that he stinks

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Bold> Yes. That is not disputed. The disagreement was simple. Some members said the poor pass was catchable. Other members stated the poor pass was impossible to catch.

Interesting scenario....what one person sees and thinks compared to another. ...and I suppose exactly why sites like this exist.

 

[shabazz]

That observation is putting emphasis on the quarterback. It inadvertently decreases or eliminates the receiver's responsibility after the quarterback has released the ball.

Quite true........the pass was catchable

 

[DallasEast]

The extremes we go to in an attempt to prove our agendas. In your first picture he is still moving and the ball hasn't reached him yet. Still photos are misleading as can be seen when people try to use them to show a receiver was open for a millisecond. If you don't understand how when running straight across the field that a pass behind you is very difficult to catch, well then, here we are. Of course he "could have" caught it. It was a bad throw. If he expected it to be behind him he could have attempted to go to the ground and secure it. He was too close to react like that so he had to keep running and try and reach back and grab it all while coming out of his cut and running away from where the ball was thrown. Lance threw a poor pass on that play. It's ok to admit it. It doesn't mean he will throw a poor pass on every play of his career or that he stinks

I have literally said Trey Lance threw a poor pass.

CowboysZone

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

During last Saturday's game/1st Half thread, a sub-discussion started about the second quarter, 3rd & 5 Trey Lance pass that was thrown behind Jalen Cropper. Some members basically admitted the pass was difficult like any other throw behind the receiver's body but that it was catchable. Other members disagreed and stated the pass was impossible for Cropper to catch.

It was said that the film, proving the behind the receiver's back pass--like every behind the receiver's back pass--was impossible for any receiver to catch, would be posted. It is Tuesday. Video has been posted but does not state the pass was impossible to catch. In fact, @SultanOfSix 's thread OP of J.T. Sullivan's video, between the 4:13 - 5:58 video marks, the creator states:

"Could he catch it? Absolutely. Yeah. I am not saying he shouldn't. Could the ball placement be better? Yes. Is this a quarterback-centric channel? Yes."

I don't know? Me? I think that is a fair assessment of the play of both the quarterback and receiver's responsibility from a quarterback bias critic.

The following are three still photos. Each of images are split seconds in succession when the ball arrives, the catch is attempted and where the ball is afterwards. A real-time video (34 seconds long) is posted beneath them. A video link (stupid NFL YouTube ) is an example beneath it "proving" it is impossible for any receiver to catch a pass thrown beneath them within their catch radius:

Click here for a behind the back reception



I have said it for years. Every player has responsibilities. Every reception is not the sole responsibility of any quarterback. Intended teammates, who have a pass thrown within their catch radius, should catch the pass thrown to them. Receiving difficulty increases from great-to-poor according to the type of pass thrown.

Passes thrown over the teammates' hands are not catchable. Passes thrown in the dirt are not catchable. Passes thrown beyond a teammate arm's reach, a.k.a. catch radius, are impossible to catch. Teammates can and should leap and dive for catchable passes.

Finally. In my opinion, no wide receiver or tight end--high school, college, pro--should be taken off the hook for passes they should catch. Again. WHAT IS A RECEIVER'S FIRST AND ONLY RESPONSIBILITY WHEN A PASSED BALL REACHES THEM? What are NFL receivers and tight ends paid hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of dollars to do BEFORE they gain any yards AFTER the catch?

Yeah. Exactly.

1st thing I noticed in the pics is how tight that pocket looks. Admirable to stand in there and deliver a mostly catchable pass.

 

[DallasEast]

1st thing I noticed in the pics is how tight that pocket looks. Admirable to stand in there and deliver a mostly catchable pass.

Note: there are plenty of Trey Lance threads to critique his poor passes in last Saturday's game. This thread is a LITTLE more about a receiver not doing his job and some observers stating it was impossible for him to do his job.

 

[Jarntt]

I have literally said Trey Lance threw a poor pass.

CowboysZone

Where?

 

[DallasEast]

Where?

I apologize. I did not say 'poor pass' in verbatim. I did begin with the thread title stating that the pass was behind the back. I consider a pass thrown behind the receiver as a poor pass. I was wrong not to spell out what I meant for everyone reading my thread.