The Lance to Cropper Behind The Back Incomplete Pass

[Jarntt]

I apologize. I did not say 'poor pass' in verbatim. I did begin with the thread title stating that the pass was behind the back. I consider a pass thrown behind the receiver as a poor pass. I was wrong not to spell out what I meant for everyone reading my thread.

Understood

This is what confused me as to your exact thoughts:

"Finally. In my opinion, no wide receiver or tight end--high school, college, pro--should be taken off the hook for passes they should catch. Again. WHAT IS A RECEIVER'S FIRST AND ONLY RESPONSIBILITY WHEN A PASSED BALL REACHES THEM? What are NFL receivers and tight ends paid hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of dollars to do BEFORE they gain any yards AFTER the catch?"

 

[DallasEast]

Understood

This is what confused me as to your exact thoughts:

"Finally. In my opinion, no wide receiver or tight end--high school, college, pro--should be taken off the hook for passes they should catch. Again. WHAT IS A RECEIVER'S FIRST AND ONLY RESPONSIBILITY WHEN A PASSED BALL REACHES THEM? What are NFL receivers and tight ends paid hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of dollars to do BEFORE they gain any yards AFTER the catch?"

Now I am confused. What was confusing about the paragraph..?

 

[Mikexike]

Cropper should be on his way out, He offers the offense nothing.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

During last Saturday's game/1st Half thread, a sub-discussion started about the second quarter, 3rd & 5 Trey Lance pass that was thrown behind Jalen Cropper. Some members basically admitted the pass was difficult like any other throw behind the receiver's body but that it was catchable. Other members disagreed and stated the pass was impossible for Cropper to catch.

It was said that the film, proving the behind the receiver's back pass--like every behind the receiver's back pass--was impossible for any receiver to catch, would be posted. It is Tuesday. Video has been posted but does not state the pass was impossible to catch. In fact, @SultanOfSix 's thread OP of J.T. Sullivan's video, between the 4:13 - 5:58 video marks, the creator states:

"Could he catch it? Absolutely. Yeah. I am not saying he shouldn't. Could the ball placement be better? Yes. Is this a quarterback-centric channel? Yes."

I don't know? Me? I think that is a fair assessment of the play of both the quarterback and receiver's responsibility from a quarterback bias critic.

The following are three still photos. Each of images are split seconds in succession when the ball arrives, the catch is attempted and where the ball is afterwards. A real-time video (34 seconds long) is posted beneath them. A video link (stupid NFL YouTube ) is an example beneath it "proving" it is impossible for any receiver to catch a pass thrown beneath them within their catch radius:

Click here for a behind the back reception



I have said it for years. Every player has responsibilities. Every reception is not the sole responsibility of any quarterback. Intended teammates, who have a pass thrown within their catch radius, should catch the pass thrown to them. Receiving difficulty increases from great-to-poor according to the type of pass thrown.

Passes thrown over the teammates' hands are not catchable. Passes thrown in the dirt are not catchable. Passes thrown beyond a teammate arm's reach, a.k.a. catch radius, are impossible to catch. Teammates can and should leap and dive for catchable passes.

Finally. In my opinion, no wide receiver or tight end--high school, college, pro--should be taken off the hook for passes they should catch. Again. WHAT IS A RECEIVER'S FIRST AND ONLY RESPONSIBILITY WHEN A PASSED BALL REACHES THEM? What are NFL receivers and tight ends paid hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of dollars to do BEFORE they gain any yards AFTER the catch?

Yeah. Exactly.

So I am going to ask if this also applies to Dak?

And the pass could have been caught the problem is the pass was going left and the WR is going right and made it more challenging to catch. The WR should have been led in the route so he could catch and continue to run. Instead he was forced to slow down and turn to his right which for a right handed receiver is the harder location to catch.

It was inaccurate. Should the WR make the catch? Yes. But again doesn't change the fact the ball was thrown to the wrong side and oh BTW it was also low.

The QB bears a lot of blame for this

And why a war and peace post about a QB who is known not to be accurate and seemingly defending him and placing blame on WR.

In this case both to blame. But I put most of it on QB because he needs to be way more accurate than that. Few years ago in over time against the JAGs Brown bumped the ball up and it was intercepted. In these kind of plays and inaccurate throws chances of that happening is high

 

[DallasEast]

So I am going to ask if this also applies to Dak?

It applies to all quarterbacks in my opinion. However, this is not a quarterback thread--even though it is being nudged in that direction.

 

[5Stars]

So I am going to ask if this also applies to Dak?

And the pass could have been caught the problem is the pass was going left and the WR is going right and made it more challenging to catch. The WR should have been led in the route so he could catch and continue to run. Instead he was forced to slow down and turn to his right which for a right handed receiver is the harder location to catch.

It was inaccurate. Should the WR make the catch? Yes. But again doesn't change the fact the ball was thrown to the wrong side and oh BTW it was also low.

The Qab bears a lot of blame for this

lmao...

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Naturally we have to take into account what type of duress a qb is under at the time of release as well as where the defender is located.

A lot is happening in the blink of an eye.

You feel feel this way generally or just in this case?

 

[Roadtrip635]

Bold> Exactly.

This thread was just an opportunity for me to vent. I run into this nonsense on and off-line. Every pass will not be perfectly thrown.

Yes. The quarterback should always throw an optimally receivable pass. The best quarterbacks to ever play the game at any level have never thrown every pass perfectly. It does not matter. Receivers should catch passes that are catchable. It is a simple as that.

You're like a dog with a bone, ain't gonna let go.........
I remember the exchange after that play in the thread, it was kinda funny. Of course it was catchable. a tough catch, but not impossible. In the NFL as far as tough catches go, that would have been an almost routine tough catch. There are degrees of difficulty for tough and great catches and that was pretty low on the scale for tough catches, you want to make the team, you make those catches. Few things are perfect or easy in the NFL, every pass will not be perfect, not every pocket will be clean, not every hole will be wide open, bottom line players gotta make plays, regardless of the position.

 

[DallasEast]

You're like a dog with a bone, ain't gonna let go.........
I remember the exchange after that play in the thread, it was kinda funny. Of course it was catchable. a tough catch, but not impossible. In the NFL as far as tough catches go, that would have been an almost routine tough catch. There are degrees of difficulty for tough and great catches and that was pretty low on the scale for tough catches, you want to make the team, you make those catches. Few things are perfect or easy in the NFL, every pass will not be perfect, not every pocket will be clean, not every hole will be wide open, bottom line players gotta make plays, regardless of the position.

Bold> Guilty as charged. Any member will find posts of mine occasionally stepping onto my catchable pass box, going as far back as the year of the site's creation.

The funniest convos have been the ones I have had in person with someone disagreeing. I will typically go down a list of each player's main responsibility. Then I would follow up asking why there is an exception for wide receiver's main job.

Typically, the convo shifts back to how difficult the pass was delivered--to which I always say, "I never said he should have caught an easy pass." lol.

 

[Roadtrip635]

So I am going to ask if this also applies to Dak?

And the pass could have been caught the problem is the pass was going left and the WR is going right and made it more challenging to catch. The WR should have been led in the route so he could catch and continue to run. Instead he was forced to slow down and turn to his right which for a right handed receiver is the harder location to catch.

It was inaccurate. Should the WR make the catch? Yes. But again doesn't change the fact the ball was thrown to the wrong side and oh BTW it was also low.

The QB bears a lot of blame for this

And why a war and peace post about a QB who is known not to be accurate and seemingly defending him and placing blame on WR.

In this case both to blame. But I put most of it on QB because he needs to be way more accurate than that. Few years ago in over time against the JAGs Brown bumped the ball up and it was intercepted. In these kind of plays and inaccurate throws chances of that happening is high

Low? It went off his arm and shoulder pads.........

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Note: there are plenty of Trey Lance threads to critique his poor passes in last Saturday's game. This thread is a LITTLE more about a receiver not doing his job and some observers stating it was impossible for him to do his job.

Okay....I'm not gonna join those threads.

My comment stands...it was a decent pass with the pressure coming....and I think the wr should have caught it.

As was said earlier..it's a very dynamic activity....both parties bear responsibility in its success. I was expecting to see the ball further behind but it looks like it's on his hip.

Can't win 'em all but that's an opportunity for wr to show his prowess under duress.

 

[DallasEast]

Okay....I'm not gonna join those threads.

My comment stands...it was a decent pass with the pressure coming....and I think the wr should have caught it.

As was said earlier..it's a very dynamic activity....both parties bear responsibility in its success. I was expecting to see the ball further behind but it looks like it's on his hip.

Can't win 'em all but that's an opportunity for wr to show his prowess under duress.

Bold> You are not the first to say the pass was lower than Cropper's shoulder. I do not see what some are seeing. I mean. I did add still photos. Three of them.

 

[5Stars]

Bold> You are not the first to say the pass was lower than Cropper's shoulder. I do not see what some are seeing. I mean. I did add still photos. Three of them.

I think I read somewhere that Lance needs to slow his passes down a little because he is throwing hard because he can. With more practice and a little more relaxed he could put just a tad more "touch" on the throw. But all in all it's a timing issue that will work out with more experience.

 

[DallasEast]

I think I read somewhere that Lance needs to slow his passes down a little because he is throwing hard because he can. With more practice and a little more relaxed he could put just a tad more "touch" on the throw. But all in all it's a timing issue that will work out with more experience.

Again. That is a quarterback thing. Not a receiver "catching catchable passes' thing.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Bold> Guilty as charged. Any member will find posts of mine occasionally stepping onto my catchable pass box, going as far back as the year of the site's creation.

The funniest convos have been the ones I have had in person with someone disagreeing. I will typically go down a list of each player's main responsibility. Then I would follow up asking why there is an exception for wide receiver's main job.

Typically, the convo shifts back to how difficult the pass was delivered--to which I always say, "I never said he should have caught an easy pass." lol.

What's catchable vs what's impossible and what should be an expectation is a gray area at times, depending on the degree of difficulty involved. Balls slightly behind, low or high are "routine" tough catches, but once diving, jumping, one handed stabs come in, that's where exceptions start coming in. Hospital balls are the fun ones, they happen from time to time and they're still expected to make the catch and sometimes that's the only play. In first PS game, Lance was throwing a bunch of those and a WR dropped one of them, he shoulda caught it. In thread I said he shoulda caught it, but if Lance isn't better at positioning those throws the WRs might get together and beat him with a sack of oranges.

 

[5Stars]

Again. That is a quarterback thing. Not a receiver "catching catchable passes' thing.

True, and Lance hopefully can work the timing out with his passes. The kid just needs experience.

 

[DallasEast]

What's catchable vs what's impossible and what should be an expectation is a gray area at times, depending on the degree of difficulty involved. Balls slightly behind, low or high are "routine" tough catches, but once diving, jumping, one handed stabs come in, that's where exceptions start coming in. Hospital balls are the fun ones, they happen from time to time and they're still expected to make the catch and sometimes that's the only play. In first PS game, Lance was throwing a bunch of those and a WR dropped one of them, he shoulda caught it. In thread I said he shoulda caught it, but if Lance isn't better at positioning those throws the WRs might get together and beat him with a sack of oranges.

I am glad you mentioned one-handed stabs. No one has commented yet about the YouTube link, I included in the OP, illustrating Alex Pitt's behind the back stab-and-catch. That was an extremely difficult throw to haul in and could have easily bounced off his hand but did not. It was a far more difficult pass than what Cropper had thrown at him.

And I better add Pitts was running full speed too.

 

[DallasEast]

True, and Lance hopefully can work the timing out with his passes. The kid just needs experience.

Y'all cannot help yourselves.

 

[5Stars]

Y'all cannot help yourselves.

Hey! At least I did not say the "T" word about Lance. Give me some credit.

 

[Roadtrip635]

I am glad you mentioned one-handed stabs. No one has commented yet about the YouTube link, I included in the OP, illustrating Alex Pitt's behind the back stab-and-catch. That was an extremely difficult throw to haul in and could have easily bounced off his hand but did not. It was a far more difficult pass than what Cropper had thrown at him.

And I better add Pitts was running full speed too.

That's the thing about what's catchable vs. impossible, what's catchable for one player is impossible for another. Some players just don't have the athletic ability to make some of those type plays. Technically, some catches are not impossible, but might be impossible to repeat. That pass in the OP was in the "NFL WRs are expected to make that catch" category not the "Jaw dropping, reaching behind while running full speed one handed catch" category.