The Myth of the Bell Cow

[jobberone]

I think we can all agree that success can and will be had behind this line. I don't think that's debatable. It is the level of success that contributes to maintaining balance and controlling the clock that's in question. Many times last year, Demarco may have been an additional OG because he moved people that got in his way. We intimidated teams that placed 8 in the box and it changed the personality of our offense. It remains to be seen if that personality will remain or be tossed aside at the first sight of inability to move people (much like what we did during our multiple 8-8 runs). Coaches tend to get skittish when the run isn't working according to plan. Last year, Demarco created the comfort level (along with his line of course....) that allowed us to remain balanced all game long.

We converted 80% of 3 and 1-3 by running the ball last year. Didn't matter who ran the ball. You only have to be so good with your run offense. And we were almost as successful under Garrett since he got here. Now goal line I haven't looked at but my eye says not as good. But I thought that we were more successful passing on 3rd and short. And to get to 3rd and short you have to run the ball on 1st and/or 2nd down. We did that before last year.

So the idea of we can't do without Murray or we should be very concerned is not supported by the facts. If you want to say we had a very good run offense last year in Murray's one good year in a contract year then I'm with you.

We'll see.

 

[Galian Beast]

& we had arguably poor defense last year but we somehow managed to end up 12-4. Strange how that happens..

19th last year

32nd in 2013

19th in 2012

14th in 2011

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2011

So I'm not buying that "poor defense for years" argument.

Poor defense? It was actually pretty average and had a good turnover rate. You picked the worst stat to compare defenses. This is a bend but don't break defense, and you think yards matter? It's points.

 

[ufcrules1]

& we had arguably poor defense last year but we somehow managed to end up 12-4. Strange how that happens..

19th last year

32nd in 2013

19th in 2012

14th in 2011

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2011

So I'm not buying that "poor defense for years" argument.

It happened because of our outstanding run game and Oline. Hell.. even at times our defense stepped it up because we were always in games and doing well with TOP. It kept them somewhat fresh. We have a fantastic Oline but in order to take advantage of that line you have to have a very solid RB behind it. Murray isn't elite but he isn't far from it either. He had amazing year. I was only ok with letting him go because I feared he would demand too much money and the draft was so deep at RB. I also thought were were highly interested in Peterson. I fear the RB position is now our weakest link.

 

[jobberone]

Fair enough but you have plenty of history of glossing over and complete dismissal of anyone that questions the RBBC strategy right here in this very thread. If many of those were as reasonable as what you just posted, this thread would only have half the pages it currently has at this time.

That's your opinion. My opinion has been based on facts that generally refute the idea we had a great year due to Murray. I submit more of it was OL than Murray although I give him credit.

And I resent your telling me what I'm thinking. I meant what I said and said what I meant. I can't make you understand what I said or meant. But the record stands for itself.

 

[Bleu Star]

Poor defense? It was actually pretty average and had a good turnover rate. You picked the worst stat to compare defenses. This is a bend but don't break defense, and you think yards matter? It's points.

Last year's defense was not exponentially better than the previous few years and we still managed to go 12-4.

 

[Bleu Star]

And I resent your telling me what I'm thinking. I meant what I said and said what I meant. I can't make you understand what I said or meant. But the record stands for itself.

Reread my post. Nothing in it was directed at you.

Replace "you have" with "there is". Different words. Same message.

 

[jobberone]

Reread my post. Nothing in it was directed at you.

Replace "you have" with "there are". Different words. Same message.

Here is exactly what you said directly addressing me.

Bleu Star said: ↑
Fair enough but you have plenty of history of glossing over and complete dismissal of anyone that questions the RBBC strategy right here in this very thread. If many of those were as reasonable as what you just posted, this thread would only have half the pages it currently has at this time.

No wiggle room for you there.

I have stated the facts refuting the no bad defense theory of yours and more. Not going over them again as they are there for all to read.

You can have the last say. And I agree I should bow out of this thread. There is not much left for me to say nor facts to present.

 

[Galian Beast]

7th in interceptions last year compared to 30th the year before.

But yeah, pretty much the same.

 

[Bleu Star]

Here is exactly what you said directly addressing me.

Bleu Star said: ↑
Fair enough but you have plenty of history of glossing over and complete dismissal of anyone that questions the RBBC strategy right here in this very thread. If many of those were as reasonable as what you just posted, this thread would only have half the pages it currently has at this time.

No wiggle room for you there.

I have stated the facts refuting the no bad defense theory of yours and more. Not going over them again as they are there for all to read.

You can have the last say. And I agree I should bow out of this thread. There is not much left for me to say nor facts to present.

Dude... Seriously? My point was that "there is plenty of history of glossing over and complete dismissal of anyone that questions the RBBC strategy right here in this very thread". (as in everyone not you). Sorry if you took that personally just because we were responding to each other. I was pointing to the thread as a whole... & my integrity is always on point.

 

[Bleu Star]

7th in interceptions last year compared to 30th the year before.

But yeah, pretty much the same.

Pick any stat to support your argument. Nice work.

 

[Galian Beast]

Pick any stat to support your argument. Nice work.

Isn't that how arguments work...

 

[Bleu Star]

Isn't that how arguments work...

 

[jobberone]

So once again.. My point stands. Last year's defense was not exponentially better than the previous few years and we still managed to go 12-4.

We scored 18 more pts last year than 2013 and gave up 80 fewer pts in 2014 compared to 2013. Don't know what exponential means to you but the defense vastly improved last year compared to the offense. And of the +115 pt diff most of that was defense related. Our pts diff 2013 was +7. That's 8-8 for you.

I had to respond to your inane comment. My last post I promise.

 

[Bleu Star]

Jobberone. I know you're done posting but I went back and reread that response again. I can see how it might have appeared to be direct. If you read it again from the perspective of the whole and not one you'll see how the message was truly meant to be conveyed. Direct attacks are no longer my style. I enjoy refreshing this site 50 times a day and have matured aplenty since the old days of all that other stuff... Sincere apologies man.

 

[jobberone]

Jobberone. I know you're done posting but I went back and reread that response again. I can see how it might have appeared to be direct. If you read it again from the perspective of the whole and not one you'll see how the message was truly meant to be conveyed. Direct attacks are no longer my style. I enjoy refreshing this site 50 times a day and have matured aplenty since the old days of all that other stuff... Sincere apologies man.

Good deal

 

[Bleu Star]

We scored 18 more pts last year than 2013 and gave up 80 fewer pts in 2014 compared to 2013. Don't know what exponential means to you but the defense vastly improved last year compared to the offense. And of the +115 pt diff most of that was defense related. Our pts diff 2013 was +7. That's 8-8 for you.

I had to respond to your inane comment. My last post I promise.

Are we comparing just to 2013 or to the last few previous years of mediocrity? I thought we were comparing year(s).

We can shape the argument in many ways to prove points from both perspectives but the defense was not exponentially better last year than it was in 13, 12, or 11. It was better but not the primary contributor to us moving from 8-8 (aka mediocrity hell) to 12-4.

 

[blindzebra]

Are we comparing just to 2013 or to the last few previous years of mediocrity? I thought we were comparing year(s).

We can shape the argument in many ways to prove points from both perspectives but the defense was not exponentially better last year than it was in 13, 12, or 11. It was better but not the primary contributor to us moving from 8-8 (aka mediocrity hell) to 12-4.

So giving up 5 fewer points per game from the year before had nothing to do with it? Percy iirc posted stats that showed that the defense did a lot for themselves to improve from 2013 to 2014 and it was not just because of the run.

 

[Biggems]

yes that is a bell cow, ...... I dont like that term, I always saw murray as a bull, bell cows dont run and are not really tough.

the funny thng is people complain about he got caught from behind, or could not run it 80 yards for a td.
That wasnt the type of back he is, and guys that can go all the way are not going to get those dirty yards you refer to.

Well, my biggest issue with Murray was his lack of taste for the end zone.....I know Emmitt was special and there will never be another, but he wasn't a burner, and still was able to find pay dirt so many times on sheer will alone.....and no I am not talking about all those inside the 5 runs. It seemed to me that Murray would purposely slow down just to lay some hurt on defensive players, instead of keeping his pace and moving forward.

 

[DandyDon52]

Of course not because it destroys your weak argument...and fyi it isn't so much about those rankings as it is situationally bad, as in the offense scores right before the half and the D would allow a score, or we'd go ahead late only to see them give the lead right back.

How about a specific game where this happened?
Keep in mind other teams are going to score on us just like we score on them.
In the GB playoff game, Dallas scored in 3rd to take the lead, then GB scored in 4th to take lead back.
We lost because our offense did not score at all in the 4th , and GB only scored 6 points in the 4th.
To me the offense lost the game not the defense.

 

[DandyDon52]

Well, my biggest issue with Murray was his lack of taste for the end zone.....I know Emmitt was special and there will never be another, but he wasn't a burner, and still was able to find pay dirt so many times on sheer will alone.....and no I am not talking about all those inside the 5 runs. It seemed to me that Murray would purposely slow down just to lay some hurt on defensive players, instead of keeping his pace and moving forward.

he was a bull, he was not a great open field runner, and he did not run to open space once past the lne. I have to wonder if the RB coach ever worked with him
about this and also how he held the ball.
I think the hand needs to be over the end of the ball, which makes it harder to knock out. but all last year Murray did not have his hand on the end of the ball, so I have to assume no one told him he was holding the ball wrong.
Some of Murray's problems could have been corrected with better coaching.

I am curious to see if he does same things in philly or if they can or will coach him better.