The Myth of the Bell Cow

[DandyDon52]

I'd say it depends more on a strong Oline.
But yes, if all 4 RBs are absolutely clueless on what do when the ball is handed to them, then well need to find help.
1000 yards last year before contact for Murray tells us the line is pretty good.

I read that it was 847 before contact and 998 after contact.
Also any run to the outside would be no contact, but is done with TE and WR blocking.
Some of that also is murray hitting the right crack, not a big hole.

 

[Galian Beast]

Exactly! And you continue to try to pretend the situations with Ingram and Anderson somehow support your point, when in fact they directly refute it.

They do support my point. You just want to ignore the fact that 1000 is itself an arbitrary achievement, but the fact that they didn't even make that number supports the fact that a team doesn't need a player to do that in order to be successful.

 

[DandyDon52]

1st couple of games? I prefer to not have to wait that long to make a decision.

On another note, this mess between AP/AD and the Vikes is not going to drag on beyond the month of June. I seriously believe some news is going to break by July 1st.

Well they should have played randle a whole game last year after Murray broke his hand.
Then they would know more about what he can do in a real game as a starter.

But now they have to look at PS, but you cant really tell much there, so they have to just start one and see how he does.
It may take 6 games not just 2.

This is why letting Murray go was so stupid, they knew exactly what they had with him (bad and good), and 1 in the hand is worth 2 in the bush?
With these other 4 they dont know anything, about how they will do, it is all speculation.
You just have to put them out there and see, and even 1 or 2 games, does not show what they will do
week after week for 16 weeks.
And with Murray they knew exactly what they had, almost 4 years of him as the starter here, and he knew
the system and plays, and he caught 92% of passes thrown to him and good yardage there and people forget all about that.

 

[Stash]

They do support my point. You just want to ignore the fact that 1000 is itself an arbitrary achievement, but the fact that they didn't even make that number supports the fact that a team doesn't need a player to do that in order to be successful.

No they don't. Both had extenuating circumstances that you want to blind yourself to. But you can only pull the wool over your own eyes here, not anyone else's. The only person willing to wear those blinders is YOU.

Your points are poor and badly supported here.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think the question we should be asking if a combination of McFadden, Randle, Williams, and Dunbar (probably only three of them) run for a 30 times a game?

I think so. I think if you just started with the goal of giving three running backs 10 carries each, you would probably end up seeing improvement over Murray's numbers.

Can McFadden handle 160 carries for a season? I think he probably can. The question is whether or not that's enough carries in a game to get into a rhythm with this offensive line?

And I think we all know that the carries will begin to shift based on who is most productive.

I think when you are trying to get each backs x amount of carries that is where loss of continuity takes place. If I have a back who is performing and making plays I don't want him to come out because he has gotten is quota of runs. Most backs will say they get into more of a rhythm with the OL and the pace of things by staying in not going to the bench all the time

 

[DandyDon52]

Top 10 offenses in the NFL (PPG)
Green Bay- got beat in playoffs even though good passing team. could have gone all the way
Denvers - got beat in playoffs even though good passing team
Philadelphia - not in playoffs many reasons
New England - are out of norm team great coach and qb their bad years are better than most teams good years.
you just cant compare other teams to them. What works for them may not work for other teams.
Dallas - could have gone all the way, but whole team coaches included made too many mistakes. no one stepped up
and made the great plays.
Indianapolis - got beat bad in playoffs even though good passing team
Pittsburgh - not sure
Baltimore - barely beat by NE , could have made SB and they have good run game
New Orleans - not in playoffs
Seattle - good run game , would be SB champs again if they knew when to use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Teams in bold had a running back with over 1000 yards rushing
******************************************************
Galian Beast said: ↑

I don't think anyone will say that having a bell cow doesn't help your offense, but I think it should be pointed out that you can do things without having one (which isn't even to say that a runner on our team can't be that guy).

Denver had one of the best offenses in the league and their top running back had 849 yards.

The Patriots didn't have a single player break 500 yards.

I think the real question isn't whether or not the team can replicate last year's successful formula, but what the team can do with this years roster to be just as successful if not more so.

I definitely think the Cowboys are looking at the Patriots formula from last year, but thinking they can be more successful running the ball with the offensive line and running backs we have.

I think you look at our offensive weapons and the compare pretty well compared to the Patriots.
******************************************************
The Patriots didn't have a single player break 500 yards........ cant compare to patriots they are odd team and the HC and QB make them winners.

GB and Seattle and Dallas were the 3 best NFC teams, and they all had good runners and over 1000
NE and Baltimore were 2 best in AFC, other teams not close, and NE is only one that did not have the 1000 RB but they have brady and bellichek which makes it ok to run the way they do, which they are effective and they also have good passing game and effective defense.[/quote]

 

[DandyDon52]

I think when you are trying to get each backs x amount of carries that is where loss of continuity takes place. If I have a back who is performing and making plays I don't want him to come out because he has gotten is quota of runs. Most backs will say they get into more of a rhythm with the OL and the pace of things by staying in not going to the bench all the time

I was saying this earlier in thread, and was saying they needed 25 carries a game.
Just being in wont help unless you also get the carries.
Just rest them when they get winded.

 

[DandyDon52]

So humor me here. If the defense is better (as we expect) and we are not passing regularly to keep up, who will we be giving the ball to regularly to control the clock? If we find that we can't hand the ball off reliably to someone, what do you think will happen next?

pass more.

 

[Galian Beast]

I think when you are trying to get each backs x amount of carries that is where loss of continuity takes place. If I have a back who is performing and making plays I don't want him to come out because he has gotten is quota of runs. Most backs will say they get into more of a rhythm with the OL and the pace of things by staying in not going to the bench all the time

I'm just talking about averages. I'm not saying hey this guy needs to get exactly 15 carries each game.

The reality is that I would like to keep all 4 backs here, and I'd like to see them get plenty of opportunities. I believe that they're going to run hard for us. I also think that there are injury concerns with at least McFadden and Williams, so I don't want to overwork either of them. I think Dunbar can be an awesome change of pace back. I think Randle and McFadden and even Williams can fight for the starting spot. Hell, I don't even want to overlook Dunbar there either.

 

[DandyDon52]

Or preseason. Whatever the time frame, my point it that you can trade for a decent RB if you want to give up a decent draft pick.

I don't even want to address your other sentence because that will become the entire topic of this thread.

they dont want to give up draft picks, and unless they trade for murray back !! lol wouldn't that be something?

But they will go with what they have, which isnt that bad, and really you wont know till they start playing real games.

No One knew about murray till he took over after felix was injured.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm just talking about averages. I'm not saying hey this guy needs to get exactly 15 carries each game.

The reality is that I would like to keep all 4 backs here, and I'd like to see them get plenty of opportunities. I believe that they're going to run hard for us. I also think that there are injury concerns with at least McFadden and Williams, so I don't want to overwork either of them. I think Dunbar can be an awesome change of pace back. I think Randle and McFadden and even Williams can fight for the starting spot. Hell, I don't even want to overlook Dunbar there either.

Myself I would rather see someone step up and take the lead. I don't expect any of them to avg the same carries as Murray then again I would not expect Murray even if he was here to avg the carries he did last year. I really think it comes down to McFadden and Randle as the 2 main backs based on everything I have heard coaches saying. I think Williams will be given a chance to prove he should be one of the 2 top but in the end, If I had to take a guess I would say 3 RB will make the roster along with 1 FB just as Dallas did last year. Not sure Dallas can hold 4 spots for RB at the cost of giving up depth at another position.

 

[jobberone]

Bleu Star said: ↑

"Our offense sputtered along providing us with false hope and 8-8 year after year while attempting to place the game on the shoulders of one Tony Romo.
It wasn't until last year, when our focus finally shifted to a more balanced mindset with a greater emphasis on the run and the retirement of the "Tony's shoulders" philosophy, that our offense began to churn and destroy defenses with a clock killing mentality.
We need that 25 plus carries per game from a bell cow to be successful.
Going back to thinking Romo can go win more games than not is going to place us back closer to 8-8 and false hopes yet again... I don't hope I'm wrong because in my heart of hearts I know I'm right."

I have to agree with this, and also both Romo and Garrett wanted to keep murray, but the Jones did not think he was worth keeping.
For just one more mil a year and a few mil more guaranteed Murray would still be here.

to me this is the year to make a run for SB, and it would have been better to have kept murray than try to replace him right now.
but he is gone , and they could not get AP or anther FA, and they didnt draft one, so now they have to make the roster they have work.
I think Jerry thinks McF can step right in and do what Murray did.

Also if the cowboys had gone to the run 25 or more a game in 2nd half of 2013 they would have made the playoffs.
And In 2014 the heavy run offense led them to a 6-1 start, best start ever? and to the playoffs, Had they started 4-3 they might not have made the playoffs.

Reasonable post. I think they needed to look at the cap of the overall roster and not just Murray. They had a budget and stayed with it. Hard to fault that either. Plus we were going off one year for a back that had the can't stay healthy label FWIW.

 

[jobberone]

So far good spirited debate. Let's keep it civil and leave out the personal remarks though. Still a very good thread guys.

 

[big dog cowboy]

This is why letting Murray go was so stupid,

You were in favor of paying Murray elite RB money when he isn't an elite RB?

 

[jnday]

I think when you are trying to get each backs x amount of carries that is where loss of continuity takes place. If I have a back who is performing and making plays I don't want him to come out because he has gotten is quota of runs. Most backs will say they get into more of a rhythm with the OL and the pace of things by staying in not going to the bench all the time

Great point. Most good RBs get better after they get in a rhythm. Another point th consider with the RB is the offense they are playing in. You can't compare the offenses and not consider the type of RB needed to make the most impact. Dallas needs a RB that can wear a defense down to have the most success .

 

[Doomsday101]

Great point. Most good RBs get better after they get in a rhythm. Another point th consider with the RB is the offense they are playing in. You can't compare the offenses and not consider the type of RB needed to make the most impact. Dallas needs a RB that can wear a defense down to have the most success .

I agree the style of offense you pay has a lot to do with how you use your RB, the kind of RB you want in your backfield. Not all teams are built of designed the same ways, some teams offensive schemes are much different than others.

 

[gimmesix]

Wouldn't surprise me to see 2 of our RBs go over 1,000.

It would surprise me, but I'll certainly take it.

 

[gimmesix]

Breaking 1000 yards per game is averaging 62.5 yards per game. Don't know if I would label that bell cow.

.02

If it takes one of our backs 20 carries per game to average that, though, that's a bell cow-type load.

 

[blindzebra]

Great point. Most good RBs get better after they get in a rhythm. Another point th consider with the RB is the offense they are playing in. You can't compare the offenses and not consider the type of RB needed to make the most impact. Dallas needs a RB that can wear a defense down to have the most success .

No they don't. They needed that to protect the defense and allowed it to rank just below average. If the D takes the step it should based on resources given to it this off season, all we need is a balanced attack with an explosive running game to match our play making passing game. Remember the 90's teams did not win based on offense alone, the defenses were among the best in the league. A repeat of last year won't win a championship but a balanced mix of explosive offense, above average defense and solid special teams sure as hell will.

All this ruing over Murray is stupid, the loss we need to replace to win it all is Harris on special teams.

 

[Bleu Star]

pass more.

My point exactly. The potential for returning back to a pass happy 8-8 team has increased exponentially with the exit of Demarco and the current absence of a clock grinding replacement. Call it bell cow or whatever suits your agenda. The offense with DeMarco as an often featured centerpiece grounded defenses into submission last year. 1st year we've done that in what seems like an eternity and it's no surprise to me it allowed us to enjoy our most successful year in quite some time.