The narrative that we should have paid players sooner?

[fivetwos]

I don’t know what the Cowboys should do anymore.

I hate that this season is lost before it ever starts because of salary cap concerns.

What makes it worse it that it’s by choice….

Stephen Jones is constantly backhandingly blaming player salaries for not being able to sign needed players, meanwhile it’s mostly about his inability to put together a winning roster.

I mean if you’ve exhausted your cap and already know your team isn’t good enough, doesn’t the blame fall to yourself??

But that’s just not how it is in Dallas. Back for more. Jerry calls it an advantage.

I gotta hand one thing to Jerry….he flat out tells you when he is defrauding you yet still gets away with it somehow.

 

[JoeKing]

Yeah true but what stops a player from holding out

That's simple... missing game checks.

 

[plymkr]

I’ve always felt a contract should be honored by both parties, hence that’s why it’s called a contract. Teams should not be allowed to cut a player and players have to honor their end of the contract. Or they should stop calling them contracts and call them “non legal agreements”.

So for example if Dallas signs Gallup and he sucks after 2 years then Dallas could cut him from the team but have to pay his salary. Dallas would have to honor the contract on their end even if they don’t want to. Likewise if Dallas signs Martin to a contract that sets the market and the market eclipses that contract then Martin has to honor his contract and not hold out. If he agreed to the contract at the beginning he has to play it out.

I feel there has to be honoring of the contract that protects the player financially if the team doesn’t want him anymore. I also feel there has to be a way to honor the contract if the player agrees to it and then a couple seasons later they want a new contract.

 

[ATXSRT]

What would be really cool is if teams could have a separate cap for drafted players. That way the team that drafted you can keep all their players "home grown" per say. The way the cap is setup currently it punishes teams for drafting well. If a team drafts really really well, the team won't be able to sign all those players because each player is going to want the most money. Literally what's happening currently with the Cowboys. We still have other up coming players besides Micah and CD and Dak, like Bland and Tyler that will want to sign big.

Something needs to happen. The way these contracts are getting out of control with QBs I think it's going to create a new strategy like building teams around a average QB instead of the other way around. It's just not sustainable to pay a QB 60 million a year and be able to put a good team together.

 

[CowboyoWales]

There's been a narrative painted that we wait too long to pay our players. Are they deserving to us not always, but it's not about us, Jerry or anyone but what the market dictates. With that said, we go ahead and sign for example CEEDEE Lamb early. What makes him later in the contract realize that, uh oh I'm being underpaid due to other players at my position resetting the market?

Yes he has a contract and the teams can clearly say no, and he can hold out to see if the team will give him more money. I want to say it was most recently done with Martin maybe. Has a contract, but realizes hey I need more! What to do just let the player sit out, or do we always need to cave in?? Please give your thoughts

Spot on. Some are under the impression that you make an offer and the player signs. Players, especially with NTC's or no FT agreements have pretty much full leverage on the situation, especially if there in a limited marketplace and the players/agents are gambling on massive CAP rate increases.

 

[CowboyoWales]

What would be really cool is if teams could have a separate cap for drafted players. That way the team that drafted you can keep all their players "home grown" per say. The way the cap is setup currently it punishes teams for drafting well. If a team drafts really really well, the team won't be able to sign all those players because each player is going to want the most money. Literally what's happening currently with the Cowboys. We still have other up coming players besides Micah and CD and Dak, like Bland and Tyler that will want to sign big.

Something needs to happen. The way these contracts are getting out of control with QBs I think it's going to create a new strategy like building teams around a average QB instead of the other way around. It's just not sustainable to pay a QB 60 million a year and be able to put a good team together.

Some decent conversational points there. Your 'Home Grown' theory is there, to a limited degree with the Franchise Tag. Totally agree with the unsustainable nature of the QB market and the alternative to build a 'full' roster and fit in a cheaper QB......which is my point in the Dak Debate.

It's interesting that pretty much all sports have this issue with distribution of income and it's certainly a balance. In a way football with its percentage distribution between owners/players is probably the fairest way.....and the main issue is that each individual player wants (understandably), a bigger piece of the pie.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I don't fault players for trying to make the most money they can (their careers are short as it is), but I strongly dislike the "upfront" (signing bonus) money that's paid to players because it encourages them to whine about their contract before it ends and sometimes after only 1-2 years into it.

For example, if you give a player a 5 year contract for $50 million, but give them $30 million of it upfront ($25 million signing bonus and $5 million salary), the player looks at it like they made $30 million in year 1, then whines they are being vastly underpaid in year 2, 3, etc. as they make only a paultry $5 million per season.

At the same time, other players are getting their new contracts and are making $30 million in a year they are now making $5 million, because to them, that $25 million paid upfront was for the first season, not pro-rated amount.

Fans chime in and say, "It's insulting that the player is only making $5 million per year when the market is paying 5-6 times that", because many fans have little understanding of how NFL contracts work but assume they do.

I have no issue with guaranteed money paid to players, but it should be paid out the same way it is impacting the salary cap, which is pro-rated over every year of the contract.

Good points Reality.

 

[plasticman]

It's a shame that they can't find a way to make all salaries incentive based. That is, they get paid according to their productivity based on bonuses they get for both individual and team accomplishments.

Each player gets equal base salaries depending on the position they play. They get bonuses for starting, achieving certain levels, team final standings, playoff results, statistical standings and years in the league. They get huge bonuses for things like DPOY, MVP, DROY, etc.

All possible awards add up to the salary caps of all 32 teams so the players are getting the same percentage they would have under the present system. The only difference is that nobody is overpaid or underpaid. They are all getting exactly what they earned.

Of course, they will never do it.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

They aren’t any good at this, despite what they think of themselves.

They think they are outsmarting the rest of the world by things like signing Gallup and Steele off injuries and think they are getting a bargain.

Then get burned and make guys like Lamb and Parsons wait, only to watch the price increase considerably.

This team came with INCHES of getting K’Lavon Chiasson instead of Lamb, and JC Horn instead of Parsons. They also wanted to give Gregory 5/70. All of those were expected to be likely to happen ant the time…and if they did, there would be no playoff choke narrative because this team would be in the toilet right now.

Incapable of recognizing what they have and don’t have, and windows within which to win before salaries get too out of hand and your depth is gone. They aren’t good at this.

Yeah, keep thinking you can draft studs in every round every year and they will all be great immediately. It’s never going to work, and that’s more of a Stephen plan than a Jerry one, so I don’t really know where this is going anytime soon.

Excellent post. People won't understand this post because they don't understand Jerry!!! He is about the deal. He loved the value he was getting Jaylon Smith at in the 2nd round. A former top 5 lock who slipped to the 2nd round. Then he doubled down and was giddy to be able to extend him at a great deal. Whether he could play or not was trumped at the "good deal" he got He felt good about getting Gallup at a fraction of the cost of Cooper. He loved that he was securing Steele at a good deal because he was getting an injury discount.

Negotiating deals is what he excels at. Being the architect of a football team that competes for a Super Bowl is not his area of expertise. How can I put together a roster into the "cost structure" I envision for the football side of the house? That is the question he asks himself and tries to answer. That is our identity since Jimmy Johnson left. Just like the 9ers, Ravens, Steelers, Seahawks during the LOB days have an identity when it comes to trying to win FOOTBALL games...we have one too...it just has nothing to do with on the field.

When I hear Bobby Wagner say Dan Quinn wanted him, but Dallas could not make the money work....I was floored. When I see what Derrick Henry got from Baltimore, then I look at what we are paying Trey Lance and Zeke combined....I am trying to figure out what football sense does this make. A team that cannot stop the run or run it consistently could have had Wagner and/or Henry..and we did not even TRY to make it happen. Why? Because the best "football sense" is not the priority. The best deal is the priority.

 

[plymkr]

Totally agree with the unsustainable nature of the QB market and the alternative to build a 'full' roster and fit in a cheaper QB......which is my point in the Dak Debate.

This is what I believe will be the new model in the next 5-7 years as the NFL evolves. I think teams will figure out that paying an average player at any position, especially QB, as an elite player will cripple the team. I feel like the NFL will figure out besides Mahomes and maybe 2 or 3 others it’s more harmful to pay a QB “market value” because this “market value” is becoming out of control. One player should not take up 10-20% of your cap.

I also wish the NFL would not charge QBs against the cap. I know that will never happen but something has got to give because the QB salaries are going to ruin the league. The teams will be so watered down that the only thing that matters is if the QB has a good playoff game. I would argue the Chiefs were not the best team in the league last year, they just got the best QB play at the right time. JMO

 

[CowboyoWales]

This is what I believe will be the new model in the next 5-7 years as the NFL evolves. I think teams will figure out that paying an average player at any position, especially QB, as an elite player will cripple the team. I feel like the NFL will figure out besides Mahomes and maybe 2 or 3 others it’s more harmful to pay a QB “market value” because this “market value” is becoming out of control. One player should not take up 10-20% of your cap.

I also wish the NFL would not charge QBs against the cap. I know that will never happen but something has got to give because the QB salaries are going to ruin the league. The teams will be so watered down that the only thing that matters is if the QB has a good playoff game. I would argue the Chiefs were not the best team in the league last year, they just got the best QB play at the right time. JMO

Yep and Yep. The way around it would be, as you say, the QB is separate from the CAP, the NFL could bring in some sort of 'balancing' restriction, if they dont want a scenario that the wealthiest team automatically gets the best QB.....maybe impose draft penalties on certain levels of contract.

 

[plymkr]

Yep and Yep. The way around it would be, as you say, the QB is separate from the CAP, the NFL could bring in some sort of 'balancing' restriction, if they dont want a scenario that the wealthiest team automatically gets the best QB.....maybe impose draft penalties on certain levels of contract.

I agree

 

[Coogiguy03]

This is what I believe will be the new model in the next 5-7 years as the NFL evolves. I think teams will figure out that paying an average player at any position, especially QB, as an elite player will cripple the team. I feel like the NFL will figure out besides Mahomes and maybe 2 or 3 others it’s more harmful to pay a QB “market value” because this “market value” is becoming out of control. One player should not take up 10-20% of your cap.

I also wish the NFL would not charge QBs against the cap. I know that will never happen but something has got to give because the QB salaries are going to ruin the league. The teams will be so watered down that the only thing that matters is if the QB has a good playoff game. I would argue the Chiefs were not the best team in the league last year, they just got the best QB play at the right time. JMO

Pretty soon you'll have qb's making a 100 million a year like come on

 

[kskboys]

I’ve always felt a contract should be honored by both parties, hence that’s why it’s called a contract. Teams should not be allowed to cut a player and players have to honor their end of the contract. Or they should stop calling them contracts and call them “non legal agreements”.

So for example if Dallas signs Gallup and he sucks after 2 years then Dallas could cut him from the team but have to pay his salary. Dallas would have to honor the contract on their end even if they don’t want to. Likewise if Dallas signs Martin to a contract that sets the market and the market eclipses that contract then Martin has to honor his contract and not hold out. If he agreed to the contract at the beginning he has to play it out.

I feel there has to be honoring of the contract that protects the player financially if the team doesn’t want him anymore. I also feel there has to be a way to honor the contract if the player agrees to it and then a couple seasons later they want a new contract.

That's what guaranteed money is all about. The team honors the contract 100%. They pay what they agree to pay.

What you're referring to is fully guaranteed contracts. Those are feasible only if the player is willing to take a bit less.

Players are protected financially. Not only are they making lifetime money in one year, after 3 years they are part of the NFL retirement package.

When a player signs a contract, but then wants a new one before the old one has expired, that player is 100% NOT honoring the contract.

Since the team has to pay them 100% of the guaranteed money, why should they not be allowed to cut a player? I'm not getting your line of thinking here.

 

[fivetwos]

This is what I believe will be the new model in the next 5-7 years as the NFL evolves. I think teams will figure out that paying an average player at any position, especially QB, as an elite player will cripple the team. I feel like the NFL will figure out besides Mahomes and maybe 2 or 3 others it’s more harmful to pay a QB “market value” because this “market value” is becoming out of control. One player should not take up 10-20% of your cap.

I also wish the NFL would not charge QBs against the cap. I know that will never happen but something has got to give because the QB salaries are going to ruin the league. The teams will be so watered down that the only thing that matters is if the QB has a good playoff game. I would argue the Chiefs were not the best team in the league last year, they just got the best QB play at the right time. JMO

They do need to do something about it.

It’s not an impossible thing to get the Union to discuss because the difference would be redirected to other players, not pocketed by owners.

They can’t uncap QB money entirely though. That would send it even more out of control.

The QB is important, and there’s more teams than good ones, but no player should be making fifty to sixty times what others do. The Union would at least listen.

Teams just know they have very little chance without one of the 15-18 that are at least decent. Musical chairs concept. There’s no time to develop them any longer, and isn’t worth a teams resources to spend years getting them ready just to sign with another team.

Maybe something like add two redshirt option years for later round picks or UDFA, then maybe there won’t be such a shortage since they can be properly developed (think Romo) and the product ends up better overall.

It also raises expectations and eventual angst for guys that aren’t great, yet are paid that way. Sound familiar to anyone lol?

Again, something ought to be done because this is flawed way beyond any fan being upset over how much they make. Roger is more worried about how to money grab out of foreign countries than solve the clear problems in front of his face.

I suppose as long as the money rolls in on that side, no one cares which players get it. Short sighted IMO.

 

[eromeopolk]

There's been a narrative painted that we wait too long to pay our players. Are they deserving to us not always, but it's not about us, Jerry or anyone but what the market dictates. With that said, we go ahead and sign for example CEEDEE Lamb early. What makes him later in the contract realize that, uh oh I'm being underpaid due to other players at my position resetting the market?

Yes he has a contract and the teams can clearly say no, and he can hold out to see if the team will give him more money. I want to say it was most recently done with Martin maybe. Has a contract, but realizes hey I need more! What to do just let the player sit out, or do we always need to cave in?? Please give your thoughts

Troy got paid early. Emmitt late. Michael got paid on time. The early signing of OL has helped maintain a decent OL but it has been offset by letting talented depth go to other teams. This is why the Cowboys will rely on 2 rookies at key OL position this year that could have been field with former starters.

The best trade and signing by the Jerry Dumbo GM Jones was Amari Cooper, but then he messed that up as Amari would be entering the last year of a cowboy friendly contract and Cee Dee would not have the leverage he has now.

 

[kskboys]

This is what I believe will be the new model in the next 5-7 years as the NFL evolves. I think teams will figure out that paying an average player at any position, especially QB, as an elite player will cripple the team. I feel like the NFL will figure out besides Mahomes and maybe 2 or 3 others it’s more harmful to pay a QB “market value” because this “market value” is becoming out of control. One player should not take up 10-20% of your cap.

I also wish the NFL would not charge QBs against the cap. I know that will never happen but something has got to give because the QB salaries are going to ruin the league. The teams will be so watered down that the only thing that matters is if the QB has a good playoff game. I would argue the Chiefs were not the best team in the league last year, they just got the best QB play at the right time. JMO

If you don't have a QB, you have nothing.

That's the problem. The QB is the most important on the team, and every other position pales in comparison. You simply cannot make it w/o a QB.

And the NFL did this to themselves when they starting passing rule after rule after rule to first protect the QB, and then to make this a high octane passing league. They made the QB this valuable themselves. Someone in the NFL braintrust should've been smart enough to see the effects of what they've made the game into.

 

[kskboys]

They do need to do something about it.

It’s not an impossible thing to get the Union to discuss because the difference would be redirected to other players, not pocketed by owners.

They can’t uncap QB money entirely though. That would send it even more out of control.

The QB is important, and there’s more teams than good ones, but no player should be making fifty to sixty times what others do. The Union would at least listen.

Teams just know they have very little chance without one of the 15-18 that are at least decent. Musical chairs concept. There’s no time to develop them any longer, and isn’t worth a teams resources to spend years getting them ready just to sign with another team.

Maybe something like add two redshirt option years for later round picks or UDFA, then maybe there won’t be such a shortage since they can be properly developed (think Romo) and the product ends up better overall.

It also raises expectations and eventual angst for guys that aren’t great, yet are paid that way. Sound familiar to anyone lol?

Again, something ought to be done because this is flawed way beyond any fan being upset over how much they make. Roger is more worried about how to money grab out of foreign countries than solve the clear problems in front of his face.

I suppose as long as the money rolls in on that side, no one cares which players get it. Short sighted IMO.

NFL fans are not upset about what players make, except as it pertains to building a super bowl contender and fitting the salaries under the salary cap to do so.

I don't know what the answer is. Seems to me as if the QB position simply needs to be capped, sort of what they do in the NBA.

 

[fivetwos]

NFL fans are not upset about what players make, except as it pertains to building a super bowl contender and fitting the salaries under the salary cap to do so.

I don't know what the answer is. Seems to me as if the QB position simply needs to be capped, sort of what they do in the NBA.

Yep. The problems go beyond the surface.

Some of these guys are absolutely not ready to play right away but they are forced into the lineup because of contract length, money and draft status.

Maybe a guy like Zack Wilson could have been a quality QB in the league if his team had time to let him sit. It affects the quality of play overall and helps create the supply and demand issue.

A guy like Tony Romo would have been out of the league quickly if he had to play immediately.

Things like that are why the league ought to look at it hard, and should be something the owners and PA can agree to alter for everyone’s benefit since the money would only be redirected to other players.

I hope they do something, but Roger’s too busy trying to grab cash from Europe and South America.

 

[plymkr]

That's what guaranteed money is all about. The team honors the contract 100%. They pay what they agree to pay.

What you're referring to is fully guaranteed contracts. Those are feasible only if the player is willing to take a bit less.

Players are protected financially. Not only are they making lifetime money in one year, after 3 years they are part of the NFL retirement package.

When a player signs a contract, but then wants a new one before the old one has expired, that player is 100% NOT honoring the contract.

Since the team has to pay them 100% of the guaranteed money, why should they not be allowed to cut a player? I'm not getting your line of thinking here.

My line of thinking would be contracts would be fully guaranteed but lesser money. Once signed the player couldn’t hold out for more and the team couldn’t cut them. Both sides would have to honor the agreement. Basically what I’m trying to solve is Zack Martin being under contract and saying he wants to get paid so he holds out. I don’t get the point of signing a contract.

I’m trying to brainstorm a way that once a contract is signed the player and the team is protected for the length of the contract. Unless we do fully guaranteed contracts then I don’t see a way to solve it.

Right now I am frustrated about the Free Agency system that’s in place because contracts don’t mean as much as they once did.