The narrative that we should have paid players sooner?

[plymkr]

And the NFL did this to themselves when they starting passing rule after rule after rule to first protect the QB, and then to make this a high octane passing league. They made the QB this valuable themselves. Someone in the NFL braintrust should've been smart enough to see the effects of what they've made the game into.

I completely agree. The NFL set up a passing league. Also the media and marketing purposefully make it about the QB. Ala Mahomes vs Allen. The Netflix show on quarterbacks is another example. If I was dropped from Mars and was watching that show I’d think it was a 1 vs 1 sport. The NFL is screwing itself here IMO.

Sometime I would love to do a study of nfl players that are not QBs to see if other positions resent the QBs.

 

[plymkr]

Pretty soon you'll have qb's making a 100 million a year like come on

Exactly. Right now it’s not uncommon for a QB to take up 10-20% of the cap. If this doesn’t get checked QBs will take up a majority of the cap and everyone else will be minimum wage or rookie contracts. It’s getting pretty ridiculous

 

[KingCorcoran]

It's a shame that they can't find a way to make all salaries incentive based. That is, they get paid according to their productivity based on bonuses they get for both individual and team accomplishments.

Each player gets equal base salaries depending on the position they play. They get bonuses for starting, achieving certain levels, team final standings, playoff results, statistical standings and years in the league. They get huge bonuses for things like DPOY, MVP, DROY, etc.

All possible awards add up to the salary caps of all 32 teams so the players are getting the same percentage they would have under the present system. The only difference is that nobody is overpaid or underpaid. They are all getting exactly what they earned.

Of course, they will never do it.

The owners would. The players would never agree to it.

 

[Flamma]

I think it works perfectly with certain players but only those on rookie contracts who played at a high level at least their first two of three in the league. For example, Mazi Smith was a 1st round pick who still hasn't cracked the starting lineup going into his 3rd year. Let's assume by some miracle he starts and makes ALL-Pro after the season. Since this will be the end of his 3rd year, we can sign to a new deal but would you? You have under your control for at least 3, maybe 4 (4th rookie year, 5th-year option, 1st tag, and 2nd tag) more years w/o a new deal.

Remember this scenario he's coming off an ALL-Pro year so he's probably looking for top 10 money at his position. So no way am I signing him early since it would be cheap to wait another 3 years. Not to mention, some positions are escalating faster than others. It is not cut and dry but IMO as a general rule, if you know he's part of your long-term future and he is a starter, the sooner you get his name on the huge 2nd contract the better.

That would save the owner money in real dollars. But the last 3 years, 5th year option, tag tag, they would probably be higher cap hits. With no option to restructure and push money forward.

 

[Flamma]

What would be really cool is if teams could have a separate cap for drafted players. That way the team that drafted you can keep all their players "home grown" per say. The way the cap is setup currently it punishes teams for drafting well. If a team drafts really really well, the team won't be able to sign all those players because each player is going to want the most money. Literally what's happening currently with the Cowboys. We still have other up coming players besides Micah and CD and Dak, like Bland and Tyler that will want to sign big.

Something needs to happen. The way these contracts are getting out of control with QBs I think it's going to create a new strategy like building teams around a average QB instead of the other way around. It's just not sustainable to pay a QB 60 million a year and be able to put a good team together.

This is a good point and has been brought up before. It would make building a team a lot more interesting. The owners will never go for it because it would allow for extra spending. The hard cap they have is not accidental. I don't think they ever deviate from that.

 

[Flamma]

I’ve always felt a contract should be honored by both parties, hence that’s why it’s called a contract. Teams should not be allowed to cut a player and players have to honor their end of the contract. Or they should stop calling them contracts and call them “non legal agreements”.

So for example if Dallas signs Gallup and he sucks after 2 years then Dallas could cut him from the team but have to pay his salary. Dallas would have to honor the contract on their end even if they don’t want to. Likewise if Dallas signs Martin to a contract that sets the market and the market eclipses that contract then Martin has to honor his contract and not hold out. If he agreed to the contract at the beginning he has to play it out.

I feel there has to be honoring of the contract that protects the player financially if the team doesn’t want him anymore. I also feel there has to be a way to honor the contract if the player agrees to it and then a couple seasons later they want a new contract.

What you're arguing for are guaranteed contracts. Here's my problem with it. The NFL have enough players not living up to their contracts now, getting cut, and adding to the dead cap. Fully guaranteeing contracts would prevent teams from moving on from underperforming players. That's good for the player, but I can't imagine that being good for the game.

 

[kskboys]

My line of thinking would be contracts would be fully guaranteed but lesser money. Once signed the player couldn’t hold out for more and the team couldn’t cut them. Both sides would have to honor the agreement. Basically what I’m trying to solve is Zack Martin being under contract and saying he wants to get paid so he holds out. I don’t get the point of signing a contract.

I’m trying to brainstorm a way that once a contract is signed the player and the team is protected for the length of the contract. Unless we do fully guaranteed contracts then I don’t see a way to solve it.

Right now I am frustrated about the Free Agency system that’s in place because contracts don’t mean as much as they once did.

The owners would be more than willing. Players are not.

 

[FLWarpigrpig]

The only people that can change the way the salary cap is structured is the players. The QB pay is way out of control. However, the other 97% of the players can change it when they vote on the next CBA. I can't imagine why the players haven't figured this out yet, they will get more money.

 

[kskboys]

The only people that can change the way the salary cap is structured is the players. The QB pay is way out of control. However, the other 97% of the players can change it when they vote on the next CBA. I can't imagine why the players haven't figured this out yet, they will get more money.

And instead of trying to change it, they're just screaming and whining that they want QB pay.

 

[plymkr]

The owners would be more than willing. Players are not.

Yeah I think at the end of the day there’s truly no way to protect owners and players equally. I wish there was but it won’t happen.

 

[buybuydandavis]

You’re trusting players to honor their contracts.

The best at their positions rarely do.

Paying them early or paying them late won’t matter. As soon as they feel they are getting passed up money wise by others who they feel aren’t as good as them they will start their little “I need more money” tantrums.

This is the problem.

From a purely financial analysis, it makes more sense to give a big bonus early to the player. He gets the money earlier, increasing the NPV of the contract to him, while the team still pushes the cap hit into the future.

Win-win.

Unless players can't be trusted to appreciate the benefit of the early money and stick by the contract. Which it seems most can't.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

The question that is rarely ever asked by the Cowboys is if "their guys" are really on par or better than those other team players that are getting paid said dollar amount. For instance, is Dak Prescott worth being paid more money than Mahomes, Burrow or even Goff? Not really.

 

[Flamma]

The question that is rarely ever asked by the Cowboys is if "their guys" are really on par or better than those other team players that are getting paid said dollar amount. For instance, is Dak Prescott worth being paid more money than Mahomes, Burrow or even Goff? Not really.

You don't even have to ask the question, Dak is not among the elite. I think Goff got overpaid too. It's a supply and demand issue. It's the only position where lesser talent gets paid roughly the same is top talent.

 

[Flamma]

The only people that can change the way the salary cap is structured is the players. The QB pay is way out of control. However, the other 97% of the players can change it when they vote on the next CBA. I can't imagine why the players haven't figured this out yet, they will get more money.

The players agree to anything. The lower paid players outnumber the higher paid players by a lot. They could force a change, because the higher paid players can afford it. But they won't strike if it comes down to it.

The only thing I can think of is capping QBs at a certain % of the cap. But that's difficult to implement. But it maintains the hard cap, so I don't think there would be much resistance to it.

 

[Streifenkarl]

If you don't have a QB, you have nothing.

That's the problem. The QB is the most important on the team, and every other position pales in comparison. You simply cannot make it w/o a QB.

And the NFL did this to themselves when they starting passing rule after rule after rule to first protect the QB, and then to make this a high octane passing league. They made the QB this valuable themselves. Someone in the NFL braintrust should've been smart enough to see the effects of what they've made the game into.

There are / were teams that have done it without franchise talent on the QB position. But that is extremely rare. Especially if you're looking to be more than a one hit wonder. And that is all about making the right decisions in clutch plays and games. NOT about regular season stats.

Why do teams pay even the 2nd row as if they were the GOAT? Because jersey sales, staying relevant, and being able to hire future talent. That's not just the Cowboys, but the NFL.

 

[shabazz]

Exactly. Right now it’s not uncommon for a QB to take up 10-20% of the cap. If this doesn’t get checked QBs will take up a majority of the cap and everyone else will be minimum wage or rookie contracts. It’s getting pretty ridiculous

The running backs of the NFL approve of this message

 

[kskboys]

They do need to do something about it.

It’s not an impossible thing to get the Union to discuss because the difference would be redirected to other players, not pocketed by owners.

They can’t uncap QB money entirely though. That would send it even more out of control.

The QB is important, and there’s more teams than good ones, but no player should be making fifty to sixty times what others do. The Union would at least listen.

Teams just know they have very little chance without one of the 15-18 that are at least decent. Musical chairs concept. There’s no time to develop them any longer, and isn’t worth a teams resources to spend years getting them ready just to sign with another team.

Maybe something like add two redshirt option years for later round picks or UDFA, then maybe there won’t be such a shortage since they can be properly developed (think Romo) and the product ends up better overall.

It also raises expectations and eventual angst for guys that aren’t great, yet are paid that way. Sound familiar to anyone lol?

Again, something ought to be done because this is flawed way beyond any fan being upset over how much they make. Roger is more worried about how to money grab out of foreign countries than solve the clear problems in front of his face.

I suppose as long as the money rolls in on that side, no one cares which players get it. Short sighted IMO.

A QB is like the CEO of a company who makes many times more than an office worker. They're both employees of the company, but employees have different values.

 

[kskboys]

There are / were teams that have done it without franchise talent on the QB position. But that is extremely rare. Especially if you're looking to be more than a one hit wonder. And that is all about making the right decisions in clutch plays and games. NOT about regular season stats.

Why do teams pay even the 2nd row as if they were the GOAT? Because jersey sales, staying relevant, and being able to hire future talent. That's not just the Cowboys, but the NFL.

Yup. The NFL has become all about the money. Most teams make decisions all the time purely for financial reasons.

 

[kskboys]

You don't even have to ask the question, Dak is not among the elite. I think Goff got overpaid too. It's a supply and demand issue. It's the only position where lesser talent gets paid roughly the same is top talent.

Which has just happened recently. Why? Because it's hard to find/keep even a top 15 QB. The agents know this and go for top dollar, basically holding the team hostage until they overpay. I'm not sure I see a remedy for this.

 

[Flamma]

Which has just happened recently. Why? Because it's hard to find/keep even a top 15 QB. The agents know this and go for top dollar, basically holding the team hostage until they overpay. I'm not sure I see a remedy for this.

The owners can remedy this themselves. They just have to be willing to take a step back now and then. I don't blame teams from signing their rookie if they show some talent. But end it after that second contract unless the QB is elite.

Here's the contract given to Lawrence.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/72380/trevor-lawrence

The percentage cap hits they provide are projections past 2 years. But if those numbers can be believed, they can move on from him after the 2028 season, while remaining competitive up until that point. But if he's not an elite QB, you can't give him another contract beyond that point. The money left over is ridiculous.

This is the situation we have with Dak. But they're going to pay him.