***The Official Roy Williams Gripe Thread*** | MERGE |

[neosapien23]

Maybe I'm about the only one, but I was actually really encouraged by the Romo-Roy connection yesterday. He screwed up bad, and that sucks, but going forward I think we're getting more confidence as an offense in all of our pieces.

In a loss, Romo and Roy were making plays. He showed some gamebreaking ability. If teams want to take Austin and Witten away, Roy showed he can beat them (and then fumble, but still)...

Far more troubling was our complete lack of dedication to the run in a close game. Garrett again shows that previous similar losses have taught him absolutely nothing.

I hate to say this after a loss, but Garret is living up to his "Tecmo" nickname that some members of this board gave him. Up until the last Tony Romo fumble, Dallas should have still been running the ball. He was doing the same thing when Dallas went on a 4-0 win streak so no one seemed to care. Jones needs to let Wade coach this team and put Garret on a leash.

 

[superpunk]

I hate to say this after a loss, but Garret is living up to his "Tecmo" nickname that some members of this board gave him. Up until the last Tony Romo fumble, Dallas should have still been running the ball. He was doing the same thing when Dallas went on a 4-0 win streak so no one seemed to care. Jones needs to let Wade coach this team and put Garret on a leash.

It's horrifying. It's like he has no idea that Felix Jones exists.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Felix Jones is probably not 100%, so I don't fault Garrett for that.

But clearly, Tashard Choice should be more involved in this Offense.

 

[JeffInDC]

Maybe I'm about the only one, but I was actually really encouraged by the Romo-Roy connection yesterday. He screwed up bad, and that sucks, but going forward I think we're getting more confidence as an offense in all of our pieces.

In a loss, Romo and Roy were making plays. He showed some gamebreaking ability. If teams want to take Austin and Witten away, Roy showed he can beat them (and then fumble, but still)...

Far more troubling was our complete lack of dedication to the run in a close game. Garrett again shows that previous similar losses have taught him absolutely nothing.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Real, non-hater driven logic from a fan. Good to see that someone still has a brain. Superpunk, can you please try to explain to the "haters" that RW was NOT on the field when the Packers had the ball FOREVER on that 15+ play drive? Or, can you explain to them that RW was NOT the OC that completely abandoned the running game when the game was still very close? OR, can you explain to them that RW does NOT play on the O-line and that his pass-blocking did not cause Romo to get sacked 5 times by a team that had only 13 sacks coming into the game? And if they counter that last one by saying RW wasn't open and that's why Romo got sacked, remind them that his BFF Witten and the new #1 WR weren't open either apparently. Neither were any RB's for dumpoffs. Just tell "them" that, will ya?

 

[JeffInDC]

Besides Roy's obvious failures in the catch run and keep the ball department, I'd like to know how many of those coverage sacks / throwaways where attributable to Roy not being in the right place at the right time. From what I could see, the Packers had 2 defenders covering Austin and Witten on many plays which makes you wonder why Williams wasn't open on more plays. It would be interesting to hear from somebody that was actually at the game - although it's difficult to know where Roy was supposed to be except in situations where he clearly rounds off his routes.

A coverage sack occurs when the QB has "plenty of time" to throw, yet gets sacked because no one is open. 3 of the 5 sacks happened pretty much right after he finished dropping back (the 2 by Barnett and the 1 by Woodson). So, please stop doing what the rest of the haters are doing and blame all this on RW. The hated is getting utterly stupid on this board. Seriously.

 

[Doomsday101]

I hate to say this after a loss, but Garret is living up to his "Tecmo" nickname that some members of this board gave him. Up until the last Tony Romo fumble, Dallas should have still been running the ball. He was doing the same thing when Dallas went on a 4-0 win streak so no one seemed to care. Jones needs to let Wade coach this team and put Garret on a leash.

Dallas was not running the ball well even when we did try to run it. After the 1st qrt backs were being stopped after 1 to 2 yard gains.

 

[superpunk]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Real, non-hater driven logic from a fan. Good to see that someone still has a brain. Superpunk, can you please try to explain to the "haters" that RW was NOT on the field when the Packers had the ball FOREVER on that 15+ play drive? Or, can you explain to them that RW was NOT the OC that completely abandoned the running game when the game was still very close? OR, can you explain to them that RW does NOT play on the O-line and that his pass-blocking did not cause Romo to get sacked 5 times by a team that had only 13 sacks coming into the game? And if they counter that last one by saying RW wasn't open and that's why Romo got sacked, remind them that his BFF Witten and the new #1 WR weren't open either apparently. Neither were any RB's for dumpoffs. Just tell "them" that, will ya?

Well, I mean, there's no need to throw everyone else under the bus just to deflect from some of the bad things Roy did yesterday.

I just thought Roy (despite the mistakes) was one of our bright spots yesterday. I was really getting depressed like maybe he just sucks and there's never any chance for him to be any more than a possession receiver for us - but yesterday, he showed he can take advantage of things and break a game open for us. That was one of the ONLY bright spots for us yesterday, and unfortunately it has to be tempered by some pretty significant mistakes made by Roy.

Honestly, I don't know what Troy was talking about on that goalline fade, saying that Roy didn't know what Romo wanted. I didn't see anything to indicate confusion or frustration from either of them.

 

[JeffInDC]

Dallas was not running the ball well even when we did try to run it. After the 1st qrt backs were being stopped after 1 to 2 yard gains.

Actually, MBIII first 4 carries went for 27 yards. The problem was that those 4 carries WERE ALL IN THE 1ST QUARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! His final, yes FINAL, carry was the first play of the 2nd half in a 3-0 ball game. So, again, Garrett did what he did last year against the Commanders - ha gave up on the running game. Period and no ways around it.

 

[JeffInDC]

Well, I mean, there's no need to throw everyone else under the bus just to deflect from some of the bad things Roy did yesterday.

I just thought Roy (despite the mistakes) was one of our bright spots yesterday. I was really getting depressed like maybe he just sucks and there's never any chance for him to be any more than a possession receiver for us - but yesterday, he showed he can take advantage of things and break a game open for us. That was one of the ONLY bright spots for us yesterday, and unfortunately it has to be tempered by some pretty significant mistakes made by Roy.

Honestly, I don't know what Troy was talking about on that goalline fade, saying that Roy didn't know what Romo wanted. I didn't see anything to indicate confusion or frustration from either of them.

I hear ya. But, my point was that there are many on this board that really seem to think that THE ONLY REASON Dallas lost this game yesterday was RW or that RW is tearing this 6-3 team apart and that the team won't get better until he is benched. That is the idiotic speak that I am having issues with.

 

[Doomsay]

A coverage sack occurs when the QB has "plenty of time" to throw, yet gets sacked because no one is open. 3 of the 5 sacks happened pretty much right after he finished dropping back (the 2 by Barnett and the 1 by Woodson). So, please stop doing what the rest of the haters are doing and blame all this on RW. The hated is getting utterly stupid on this board. Seriously.

Mentioned coverage sacks / throwaways, you can include dumpoffs or scrambles if you'd like. There were many situations where Romo was pressured immediately but if you paid attention, many times where he had ample time to throw and seemingly no targets (Witten stayed in to block on some of these plays when Romo had time, but not all).

Given that our primary targets often had double coverage it would be interesting to see if Roy was getting open, not getting open or if the plays just took too long to develop. Given that better defenses are having success taking Witten and Miles out of the mix with increased coverage or pressure (keeping Witten in), Roy's ability to fill the void is going to be more of an issue going forward. It would be interesting to hear from somebody that had a full field view to get a feel for what was going on in the secondary.

Spare me the hater crap, as soon as you default into that mode you lose any of the objectivity you claim to possess.

 

[Doomsday101]

Actually, MBIII first 4 carries went for 27 yards. The problem was that those 4 carries WERE ALL IN THE 1ST QUARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! His final, yes FINAL, carry was the first play of the 2nd half in a 3-0 ball game. So, again, Garrett did what he did last year against the Commanders - ha gave up on the running game. Period and no ways around it.

Dallas was not getting much after the 1st qrt when the tried to run the ball we were seeing 2nd and 9 and second and 8. hell the only decent plays in the game where coming off the pass. Bottom line though if you can't win the battle up front then it does not matter if you are calling runs or passes without the guys blocking the plays will not work. You can capitalize all you want but we lost the battle up front plain and simple

 

[Doomsay]

I hear ya. But, my point was that there are many on this board that really seem to think that THE ONLY REASON Dallas lost this game yesterday was RW or that RW is tearing this 6-3 team apart and that the team won't get better until he is benched. That is the idiotic speak that I am having issues with.

I haven't heard anybody assert this. Trying to inflate a negative message that is easily knocked down doesn't help. This is after all a Roy thread. The O-line, play calling and general lackluster effort on the offensive side of the ball seem to be what most people are pointing at.

 

[CATCH17]

Roy Williams had a awful day yesterday and still had a good game stat wise.

His fumble and 3rd down drop really hurt us bad yesterday. Im not that down on him though.

I think he finally starting to show he can play but still hasn't got all of the bad luck out of his system.

 

[Gemini Dolly]

Roy Williams had a awful day yesterday and still had a good game stat wise.

His fumble and 3rd down drop really hurt us bad yesterday. Im not that down on him though.

I think he finally starting to show he can play but still hasn't got all of the bad luck out of his system.

Thats kind of how Im looking at things. To me it was a good sign when Roy seemed to be in the spot Tony was throwing to. So it looks like they have worked on that. Now, just hang on to the ball. Baby steps. But like I mentioned above, Roy was open and where he needed to be, which was not what we were saying a few weeks ago.

 

[Doomsday101]

Roy Williams had a awful day yesterday and still had a good game stat wise.

His fumble and 3rd down drop really hurt us bad yesterday. Im not that down on him though.

I think he finally starting to show he can play but still hasn't got all of the bad luck out of his system.

I agree I think both of those plays could have been major turning points for Dallas. Especially the 3rd down drop. At that point Dallas was struggling to make 1st down which was forcing the defense right back onto the field. Only good thing is I thought the timing with RW and Tony looked sharp but we did not finish the plays and that fell to RW to finish off the play and he did not get it done.

 

[JeffInDC]

Mentioned coverage sacks / throwaways, you can include dumpoffs or scrambles if you'd like. There were many situations where Romo was pressured immediately but if you paid attention, many times where he had ample time to throw and seemingly no targets (Witten stayed in to block on some of these plays when Romo had time, but not all).

Given that our primary targets often had double coverage it would be interesting to see if Roy was getting open, not getting open or if the plays just took too long to develop. Given that better defenses are having success taking Witten and Miles out of the mix with increased coverage or pressure (keeping Witten in), Roy's ability to fill the void is going to be more of an issue going forward. It would be interesting to hear from somebody that had a full field view to get a feel for what was going on in the secondary.

Spare me the hater crap, as soon as you default into that mode you lose any of the objectivity you claim to possess.

I hear ya and I agree. I was just trying to figure out if your post was another in this long line of "it's all Roy's fault" posts. Now, do I think he was perfect? Absolutely not - his 2 bungles did hurt, but how much we don't know. But, when you read some of the other posts, you would think that RW is playing all 22 positions on the field and that he failed at all of them.

 

[Doomsday101]

I hear ya and I agree. I was just trying to figure out if your post was another in this long line of "it's all Roy's fault" posts. Now, do I think he was perfect? Absolutely not - his 2 bungles did hurt, but how much we don't know. But, when you read some of the other posts, you would think that RW is playing all 22 positions on the field and that he failed at all of them.

I agree. RW 2 plays he failed on hurt but he was far from the only one making mistakes in the game. While I'm disappointed in his play and others play I'm still behind them 110%.

 

[BlindFaith]

Ok, I did it. I read this whole thread and believe it or not, there are some good points in it.

First off. When an offense is held score less through 95% of the game there is enough blame to go around to everyone. I'm starting at the top. Garrett.

There are games when he is simply out coached. This was one of them. The reason GB was getting so much pressure was because we totally gave up on the running game. Now I don't know if Garrett just stopped calling for runs or if Romo checked out of them as it has been well documented he's done in the past. But we needed to run the ball more and we needed to use Choice. And not in that BS, wanna be Razorback that is the same frickin thing everytime. But give him 10 carries a game, at least.

The simplicity of this offense is glaring at times. Now in most cases we have better talent so it works. But when we play teams that can equal our talent, we struggle. It's been said many times by many other teams that our offense is predictable. That role out drag to Witten in the end zone is an example. We run that play to death and there is very seldom any other action off of it. And it was again another bad pass by Romo. Which leads me to my next point - Romo.

Why is it exactly that Romo gets a pass here? He had several bad throws and one or two more that could have been easily intercepted. He locks in on receivers. Doesn't seem to see the whole field at times. Now there is talk that last year he didn't know the plays. There have been hints by players past and present along with players from other teams that indicate Romo isn't all that. He is not Brett Favre. Not now, not ever. He has an average arm, struggles to throw a deep ball and I fear lacks in the mental makeup department. Heck, right now I'd say he is just barely above average. With all the talent on this team there would be quite a few QBs with the same or better numbers than Romo.

Now, to be fair to Romo, problems with the offense and play design could be impacting what he is suppose to do with the ball. Its hard to tell. All I know is that what happened in GB is inexcusable.

So, what we have today is a pile on of Roy Williams because of fumble and a dropped pass. Fair enough. But where was Austin? Where was Witten? Where was Crayton? Where was Bennett? Where was the running game? Who gets blamed for them being completely shut out? Bad passes? Bad play calls? Or did they all just not get open?

Again, I feel the problems start at the top - Garrett and Romo. I could be wrong. Roy could be running the wrong routes, even though it's been said by many that he isn't, and that he is actually open quite a bit but just not being looked at.

My biggest problem is that I hate feeling the way I do about Romo. Hating him, loving him, hating him, loving him. I never felt that way with Aikman. Could Garrett be partially to blame here as well, undoubtedly. All I know is that a team hoping to make the playoffs can not put up an offensive performance like it did on Sunday.

 

[Doomsay]

I hear ya and I agree. I was just trying to figure out if your post was another in this long line of "it's all Roy's fault" posts. Now, do I think he was perfect? Absolutely not - his 2 bungles did hurt, but how much we don't know. But, when you read some of the other posts, you would think that RW is playing all 22 positions on the field and that he failed at all of them.

It was encouraging that the timing seems to be better, and who knows how the passing game would have opened up if we had success on those 2 balls that cost us a series in each case. Really tough time to have that happen - the packer staff was talking about no margin for error and it seemed like we were in that situation as well.

 

[Doomsday101]

Ok, I did it. I read this whole thread and believe it or not, there are some good points in it.

First off. When an offense is held score less through 95% of the game there is enough blame to go around to everyone. I'm starting at the top. Garrett.

There are games when he is simply out coached. This was one of them. The reason GB was getting so much pressure was because we totally gave up on the running game. Now I don't know if Garrett just stopped calling for runs or if Romo checked out of them as it has been well documented he's done in the past. But we needed to run the ball more and we needed to use Choice. And not in that BS, wanna be Razorback that is the same frickin thing everytime. But give him 10 carries a game, at least.

The simplicity of this offense is glaring at times. Now in most cases we have better talent so it works. But when we play teams that can equal our talent, we struggle. It's been said many times by many other teams that our offense is predictable. That role out drag to Witten in the end zone is an example. We run that play to death and there is very seldom any other action off of it. And it was again another bad pass by Romo. Which leads me to my next point - Romo.

Why is it exactly that Romo gets a pass here? He had several bad throws and one or two more that could have been easily intercepted. He locks in on receivers. Doesn't seem to see the whole field at times. Now there is talk that last year he didn't know the plays. There have been hints by players past and present along with players from other teams that indicate Romo isn't all that. He is not Brett Favre. Not now, not ever. He has an average arm, struggles to throw a deep ball and I fear lacks in the mental makeup department. Heck, right now I'd say he is just barely above average. With all the talent on this team there would be quite a few QBs with the same or better numbers than Romo.

Now, to be fare to Romo, problems with the offense and play design could be impacting what he is suppose to do with the ball. Its hard to tell. All I know is that what happened in GB is inexcusable.

So, what we have today is a pile on of Roy Williams because of fumble and a dropped pass. Fair enough. But where was Austin? Where was Witten? Where was Crayton? Where was Bennett? Where was the running game? Who gets blamed for them being completely shut out? Bad passes? Bad play calls? Or did they all just not get open?

Again, I feel the problems start at the top - Garrett and Romo. I could be wrong. Roy could be running the wrong routes, even though it's been said by many that he isn't, and that he is actually open quite a bit but just not being looked at.

My biggest problem is that I hate feeling the way I do about Romo. Hating him, loving him, hating him, loving him. I never felt that way with Aikman. Could Garrett be partially to blame here as well, undoubtedly. All I know is that a team hoping to make the playoffs can not put up an offensive performance like it did on Sunday.

Everyone shared in this loss. If you think it starts at the top fine they deserve their share of the blame. This team has been playing very well of late and they received a lot of credit for that as well so when you go out and play as poorly as they did of course they are to blame for that as well. All they can do now is go back watch the film of the game see where they made mistakes to try and correct them. Then get ready for the next game.