The Roy Myth Thread

RainMan;2079837 said:
Some of the myths are hardly even myths, though.
Main Entry: myth noun

1 a: a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon b: parable, allegory
2 a: a popular belief or tradition that has grown up around something or someone; especially : one embodying the ideals and institutions of a society or segment of society <seduced by the American myth of individualism — Orde Coombs> b: an unfounded or false notion
3: a person or thing having only an imaginary or unverifiable existence
4: the whole body of myths

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/myth



By definition, 100% of the examples posted thus far have been myths which have been stated by Roy Williams observers for various reasons.

There isn't anything wrong with stating an opinion. If some hate him for his level of play, it's fine. If some love him for his level of play, it's fine. If some both love and hate him for his level of play, it's fine. After all, it's a message board, but attempting to disprove myths with opinions is loopy. It's a wasted effort, pure and simple.
 
DallasEast;2080051 said:
Main Entry: myth noun
2 a: a popular belief or tradition that has grown up around something or someone

The fact Roy Williams did or does weigh 300 pounds is a "popular belief?" You'll have a hard time convincing me of that.

EDIT: And if we're using the definitin of "unfounded or false notion" to define Roy Williams myths, then jeebus, the thread really loses its original intent IMO. Might as well add to the list: Roy Williams is the moon, Roy Williams ate Gilbert Grape and Roy Williams caused cancer. ... again, only if we're using that meaning -- a fairly loose and open-ended one -- in this instance.
 
RainMan;2080077 said:
The fact Roy Williams did or does weigh 300 pounds is a "popular belief?" You'll have a hard time convincing me of that.

I bet if you cruised Spawn message boards, you might think it was more popular.
 
RainMan;2080077 said:
The fact Roy Williams did or does weigh 300 pounds is a "popular belief?" You'll have a hard time convincing me of that.
b: an unfounded or false notion
 
DallasEast;2080080 said:
b: an unfounded or false notion

Didn't get my edit in soon enough.

I don't see what this thread proves then if we're using the above definition. We can just add anything random and ridiculous and try to insist we're myth busting.

Myth 100: Roy Williams doesn't recycle.

Whew, glad to clear the air on that one.
 
RainMan;2080082 said:
Didn't get my edit in soon enough.

I don't see what this thread proves then if we're using the above definition. We can just add anything random and ridiculous and try to insist we're myth busting.

Myth 100: Roy Williams doesn't recycle.

Whew, glad to clear the air on that one.
IMO, there won't be any mythbusting on this thread whatsoever. However, I do believe that some will continue to direct opinions at Williams that'll be posted within the thread which have absolutely nothing to do with debunking any of the myths. Why some feel the need to do so is beyond me. After all, there are plenty of Williams threads past, present and future which are created for that sole purpose.
 
Alexander;2079984 said:
The post that started this thread. As Rainman pointed out, there are more than a few of them in there that were self-serving and ridiculous to anyone rational. Only an extreme viewpoint would generate the need to post them. It's not any different than someone starting an anti-Williams thread with a list of grievances in terms of its extreme nature.

Dude. You, of all people, should have a better grasp of the word 'extremist.'
 
Sure there are exaggerations good and bad about Roy Williams as well as other players for that matter. I also do value statistics to an end result point but do they truly reflect what kind of player you actually have at that particular position throughout a season?

The key positive stat about Roy Williams that is frequently used to support or vindicate him are the number of tackles as compared to the other top safeties.

Do you really want to hang your hat on Roy's head over the number of tackles especially when you consider the diversion tackles he nets playing closer to the line of scrimmage. For me it isn't the number of tackles you make that you measure a safety with, but the number of open field tackles against the inertia and combativeness of the receiver, tight end or running back. And exactly how many sacks has Roy Willams had at or near the LOS over the last couple of years? The answer is ZERO.

What about the number of tackles Roy missed and the associated yardage and field position gained by the opposition? As we are well aware, the secondary consisting of cornerbacks and safeties is the last line of defense and the ability to stop the opponent is critical.

There is a reason Mr. Sanders earned Defensive Player of the Year vs. all other safeties and particularly, Mr. Williams.

The reality is that with most teams taxing defenses with more wide receiver, tight end sets and even catch proficient running backs, it is necessary that you have decent coverage guys regardless whether they are strong or weak safeties.

Roy Williams has been a consistent liability in coverage over the years and his playmaking or opponent drive stopping ability has appreciably waned. He has become less physical a performer and it has been acknowledged that he doesn't make the effort to film study the opposing players to decrease the possibility of negative defensive plays.

From a first round top ten pick and NFL star safety Roy has regressed to an average performing defender with a tendency to give up the big play. So some feel better that the likes of Jacques Reeves malfunctioned as badly if not worse than Roy? Amazing...

We fans can twist or present Roy's statistics to meet a favorable or negative agenda but the reality is that the Dallas Cowboys organization is concerned about Roy's production and efforts. That is partly the reason Campo was rehired by the Cowboys, to work with or rehabillitate Roy.

Put it in perspective, based on real time field experience, Roy should have only gotten better - not worse during his several year Cowboy tenure. He truly is in his physical and mental prime. It his reasonable to state that over the last few years he has truly underachieved and in the wake of a hefty extended contract this is a kick in the groin of the Dallas Cowboys let alone the fan base.

Well for our sakes I hope he takes this opportunity to reestablish himself as a prime defender. A focused, confident and devastating Roy would make our defense downright scary and bolster our ability to be successful late in the season and hopefully the playoffs.
 
cowboyed;2080154 said:
There is a reason Mr. Sanders earned Defensive Player of the Year vs. all other safeties and particularly, Mr. Williams.
What reason is that ? Cause I don't think he should have been in the top 3. Ware, Mario Williams, and Patrick Willis deserved it more IMO.
 
Maikeru-sama;2080006 said:
:hammer:

Sadly, some of the folks that support the OP's rationale for starting this thread are too busy patting him on the back while simultanenously failing to see the complete hypocrisy of this thread.

i'm supporting adam on this one. why? because so far he's provided links and proof and listed all the different myths out there. is his post extreme?

sure. but what williams post does NOT get extreme? however, the simple fact of the matter is the bashers seem to take roys performance and the things he says personal and while we can all agree roy slipped, it's yet to be proven he slipped as far as the bashers say he has.

so for something that can't be proven, yes it gets so very old to hear the same mantra-horse-beating day in and day out over a topic they can't prove is even real, yet the hate continues.

now it's unfounded hate and much like a witch hunt cause as this thread has shown, extreme or not, no hater can prove a single myth true. so why the hate? you can say we're all patting ourselves on the back but i don't see that. i'm not anyway. i do find it funny that on some topics adam is revered as near god-like status but when he goes against the witch hunt he's suddenly out of touch.

that just seems self serving to me esp. when no one can refute what he says yet they do it anyway out of spite.
 
Alexander;2079984 said:
The post that started this thread.

Exactly what is extremist about pointing out all of the myths that are being created and perpetuated about Roy?


As Rainman pointed out, there are more than a few of them in there that were self-serving and ridiculous to anyone rational.

Many of Roy's critics are not rational. They'll go to extremes, exaggerate, make up things and/or not bother to find out the truth before they slam him. And we end up with plenty of regular fans believing something is true just because Roy's critics have said it. This thread is merely an attempt to promote the spread of truth rather than myths.
 
RainMan;2080082 said:
I don't see what this thread proves then if we're using the above definition. We can just add anything random and ridiculous and try to insist we're myth busting.

Myth 100: Roy Williams doesn't recycle.

Whew, glad to clear the air on that one.

Once again, you've missed the point that ALL of these myths have been used by Roy's critics -- whether they're fans or even members of the media. Some are used more often than others, but most of the ones not used as much are new myths that have cropped up.
 
cowboyed;2080154 said:
Do you really want to hang your hat on Roy's head over the number of tackles especially when you consider the diversion tackles he nets playing closer to the line of scrimmage. For me it isn't the number of tackles you make that you measure a safety with, but the number of open field tackles against the inertia and combativeness of the receiver, tight end or running back. And exactly how many sacks has Roy Willams had at or near the LOS over the last couple of years? The answer is ZERO.

And the list grows longer.

Myth No. 46 -- Roy had zero tackles at or near the line of scrimmage over the past couple of years.
 
The full list so far --

1. Roy hasn't been good since his rookie year

2. Roy was only great when he played next to Darren Woodson

3. Roy has never made as many big plays as Darren Woodson

4. Roy has never made a big play in the playoffs

5. Turnovers have been missing from Roy's game the past two years

6. Roy can't tackle

7. Roy leads the league in missed tackles

8. The only way Roy can tackle is to horse-collar

9. Roy has to horse-collar because he always lets his receiver get behind him

10. Roy injured Jamal Lewis with a horse-collar tackle in 2004

11. Roy can't cover

12. Roy is one of the worst coverage safeties in the league

13. Roy is lazy

14. Roy weighed close to 300 pounds this offseason

15. Roy doesn't have the heart to play

16. Roy didn't have any big hits last season

17. Roy said he doesn't hit hard anymore because he found God

18. The Cowboys can't cut Roy this year because of the salary cap

19. No other team would want Roy

20. Roy's cap number is an albatross on the Cowboys' cap

21. Roy is the highest-paid safety in the NFL

22. Roy was taken out whenever there were obvious passing situations last season

23. Roy was taken out whenever the opponent used three or more wide receivers last season

24. Roy was taken out whenever Dallas went to the nickel defense last season

25. Roy was taken out whenever Dallas went to the dime defense last season

26. Roy never played deep safety last season

27. Roy never covered wide receivers last season

28. Opponents completed deep passes against Roy last season

29. Opponents didn't try to throw deep passes against Roy last season

30. Roy was responsible for Santana Moss' two late TDs on Monday night in 2005

31. Jeremy Shockey always has big games against Roy

32. Chris Cooley always has big games against Roy

33. Roy was the player most responsible for Amani Toomer's TD in the playoffs last season

34. Roy was the player most responsible for Clinton Portis' TD run last season

35. Roy was the player most responsible for T.J. Duckett's TD run last season

36. Bill Parcells, Wade Phillips, Brian Stewart, Aaron Glenn, Darren Woodson, Ken Hamlin and Greg Ellis all lied just to protect Roy

37. Roy didn't deserve to go to the Pro Bowl after the 2006 season

38. The only reason Roy went to the Pro Bowl after the 2007 season was because of the fans

39. Roy played only on special teams at the Pro Bowl this year

40. Roy blamed Wade Phillips' scheme for his lack of big plays last season

41. Roy blames his teammates whenever he gives up a big play

42. Roy hasn't made big plays since he got his new contract

43. Roy hasn't been very good since his second season

44. Roy is always trailing plays

45. Roy is the opposing quarterback's favorite target

46. Roy had zero tackles at or near the line of scrimmage over the past couple of years
 
So why is it that Brian Stewart is talking about moving Roy out of 3rd downs? Does he just lack the intelligence/not have the stats that some here apparently have?

Clearly, the Cowboys coaching staff has become aware of Roy's problems the past couple of years...

Now, if they create packages where they move Roy off the field for a CB, then ok, that's one thing. But if they move him off the field for another S....

Either way, we'll get our answers this season. Not from stats; not from fans....but from the coaching staff.
 
AdamJT13;2080389 said:
And the list grows longer.

Myth No. 46 -- Roy had zero tackles at or near the line of scrimmage over the past couple of years.
His quote says sacks.

Granted, that doesn't make any sense, given the "at or near the LOS" comment, but that's what it says.
 
Vintage;2080443 said:
So why is it that Brian Stewart is talking about moving Roy out of 3rd downs?

Stewart hasn't said that. That's someone's loose interpretation of what Stewart actually said.
 
superpunk;2080462 said:
His quote says sacks.

Granted, that doesn't make any sense, given the "at or near the LOS" comment, but that's what it says.

Here's his entire paragraph -- "Do you really want to hang your hat on Roy's head over the number of tackles especially when you consider the diversion tackles he nets playing closer to the line of scrimmage. For me it isn't the number of tackles you make that you measure a safety with, but the number of open field tackles against the inertia and combativeness of the receiver, tight end or running back. And exactly how many sacks has Roy Willams had at or near the LOS over the last couple of years? The answer is ZERO."

Surely he meant to say tackles. If not, he can correct his post and reply again to tell us what he really meant to say when he was talking about sacking receivers, tight ends and running backs near the line of scrimmage.
 
This thread needs to stay on the front page, so we can reference it easily when retardation strikes.
 
Idgit;2080950 said:
This thread needs to stay on the front page, so we can reference it easily when retardation strikes.

I think it struck with this thread.
 

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