The T. Williams push off

[gmoney112]

I don't understand how you can say that we never get the benefit of the doubt when you just rightly pointed out that we two bogus pass interference calls to go our way on Dez, which put us in position to go to OT. Yes, there are bad calls throughout the course of the game, but that call against Williams was not one of them.

We got 10 yards at the 50 with 15 seconds left rather than a Williams TD or a first down inside the Eagles 20 down by 3 (if they rightfully called the Beasley DPI).

Hardly equal and the third time in three weeks we've successfully had taken points taken off the board due to officiating.

 

[Wayne02]

We got 10 yards at the 50 with 15 seconds left rather than a Williams TD or a first down inside the Eagles 20 down by 3 (if they rightfully called the Beasley DPI).

Hardly equal and the third time in three weeks we've successfully had taken points taken off the board due to officiating.

But Williams shouldn't have had the TD in the first place because if he doesn't push the defender, the ball likely gets intercepted. The Beasley call was a bang bang play in live action, but on replay it does show that it should have been a penalty. That's one of those bad calls that could've been called but that happens not just against the Cowboys, but all teams. As fans, we only see the calls that go against our team.

 

[gmoney112]

But Williams shouldn't have had the TD in the first place because if he doesn't push the defender, the ball likely gets intercepted. The Beasley call was a bang bang play in live action, but on replay it does show that it should have been a penalty. That's one of those bad calls that could've been called but that happens not just against the Cowboys, but all teams. As fans, we only see the calls that go against our team.

I could go into a whole spill about what teams are getting away with what (i don't know if it's a coincidence that NE teams or anyone who plays Dallas usually gets the benefit of the doubt), but I'll just say I watch a ton of football, am as objective as they come, and Dallas almost always gets the short end of the stick.

One of the reason Pitt has won with backup QB's is because they get away with a ton of stuff that'd never fly in AT&T Stadium. Patriots do too, if we tried to run the Patriot offense in Dallas we'd end up with 300 penalty yards. Every week the Eagles get away with a lot of holding and it seems like crews actively try to help them. The Giants are the same way, except their WR's are allowed to stiff arm DB's which are blatant OPI that never get called, especially against Dallas. Anyone with eyes could see OBJ and Randle stiff arming while the ball was in the air on that big gain last time we played. Watch Antonio Brown and OBJ on every jump ball.

Yeah we should have won regardless of the officiating, but I'm pretty tired of having to win "in spite of" the officiating. Two weeks in a row we had utterly terrible calls that could have potentially resulted in TD's and wins. This week we get yet another TD called back on a 50/50 call and Beasley getting his arms held to his sides on one of the most crucial drives late in the game that probably cost us 4 extra points in regulation.

The officiating is terrible this year, that's true. But one of the reasons why people think this is a "stupid" team is because we get called on a lot of things, and teams get away with a lot of things against us, that the more traditionally "disciplined" teams don't get called on. More often than not, we're the team that crews have to end up putting a public apology out to because they seemingly refuse to give us that benefit of the doubt. And it's weird.

 

[Kevinicus]

You can't secure the space that you're occupying by preventing the defender from getting to that same space while the ball is in the air.

If you're already occupying that space, the defender has NO right to it.

 

[Wayne02]

If you're already occupying that space, the defender has NO right to it.

Where in the rule book does it say that? While the ball is in the air, the defender has just as much right to get to the ball as the receiver. As long as the defender doesn't hit or grab the defender before the ball gets to him, he can be wherever he needs to be in order to make a play on the ball.

 

[Kevinicus]

Where in the rule book does it say that? While the ball is in the air, the defender has just as much right to get to the ball as the receiver. As long as the defender doesn't hit or grab the defender before the ball gets to him, he can be wherever he needs to be in order to make a play on the ball.

Let me rephrase. Williams is under no obligation to concede the space he is already in. If the defender has to go through Williams' arms to get to where he wants to be to try and make a play on the ball, so be it. It's not defensive pass interference if he's going for the ball. It's not OPI either.

Williams has the position and is going back to the ball. He has a right to maintain his position.

 

[Wayne02]

Let me rephrase. Williams is under no obligation to concede the space he is already in. If the defender has to go through Williams' arms to get to where he wants to be to try and make a play on the ball, so be it. It's not defensive pass interference if he's going for the ball. It's not OPI either.

Williams has the position and is going back to the ball. He has a right to maintain his position.

He has a right to his position, but he does not have a right to prevent the defender from getting to a position to where he can make a play on the ball, which is why he was penalized. If Williams just jumps without using his hands to prevent the defender from jumping backwards, the ball gets intercepted.

 

[Nightman]

Let me rephrase. Williams is under no obligation to concede the space he is already in. If the defender has to go through Williams' arms to get to where he wants to be to try and make a play on the ball, so be it. It's not defensive pass interference if he's going for the ball. It's not OPI either.

Williams has the position and is going back to the ball. He has a right to maintain his position.

You are just making stuff up about 'the right to occupied space'. TWill extended both arms and pushed him from behind. Sometimes it doesn't get called but that doesn't mean it wasn't OPI.

 

[blindzebra]

I saw contact but no push with a defender that mistimed his jump.

The first play on their 95 yard drive was a blatant hold on Hardy in the endzone. They held all game long. Every time they showed a clip of our DL their jerseys were twisted and loose which shows how much holding was going on.

 

[31smackdown]

The question is did Williams do a) or b) ?

a) Initiating contact with an opponent by shoving or pushing off, thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass.
b) Contact by a player who has gained position on an opponent in an attempt to catch the ball.

a is illegal, b is not . I think if the Eagles player is tighter to start this does not get called, but because the defender is carrying so much momentum that get stopped/slowed by Williams, who already gained position, it looked like a push off. I think this one could of gone either way. If Williams just goes up for it and draws contact it might even be called the other way, but he was flat footed reading the ball with a guy running towards him, it's kind of a natural reaction to put your arm out to protect yourself and absorb that player coming into your space.

The calls on the Dez passes are more illegal contact, although Dez basically tries to run through people. I think that contact happens on 80% of plays in the NFL but Dez forces a call because the defender is impeding him . The question becomes are is Dez trying to evade him and did he release contact after 5 yards. Then when the ball is in the air did he try to play through Dez's back or prevent Dez from turning in any way.

ARTICLE 2. ILLEGAL CONTACT WITHIN FIVE YARDS. Within the five-yard zone, if the player who receives the snap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender may not make original contact in the back of a receiver, nor may he maintain contact after the receiver has moved beyond a point that is even with the defender. Note: If a defender contacts a receiver within the five-yard zone of the line of scrimmage, loses contact, and then contacts him again within the five-yard zone, it is a foul for illegal contact. ARTICLE 3. ILLEGAL CONTACT BEYOND FIVE-YARD ZONE. Beyond the five-yard zone, if the player who receives the snap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender cannot initiate contact with a receiver who is attempting to evade him. A defender may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver. Note: If a defender contacts a receiver within the five-yard zone and maintains contact with him, he must release the receiver as they exit the five-yard zone. If the defender maintains contact beyond five yards, it is illegal contact.

 

[hendog]

I saw contact but no push with a defender that mistimed his jump.

The first play on their 95 yard drive was a blatant hold on Hardy in the endzone. They held all game long. Every time they showed a clip of our DL their jerseys were twisted and loose which shows how much holding was going on.

That's the reason they were consistently getting to the edge. They were holding every play. And it was obvious.

 

[Nightman]

I saw contact but no push with a defender that mistimed his jump.

The first play on their 95 yard drive was a blatant hold on Hardy in the endzone. They held all game long. Every time they showed a clip of our DL their jerseys were twisted and loose which shows how much holding was going on.

Both refs and the DB immediately reacted. His jump was stunted, mistimed or whatever you want to call it because of the shove. TWill should have gone straight up.

 

[tyke1doe]

I didn't see a push off nor did I see TWill extend his arms. I don't think it should have been a OPI call. But it's par for the course when you're a losing franchise. You're just not going to get those kinds of calls.

 

[renny]

Dez's push off on his TD was more egregious.

Fact is that is typical contact that is usually allowed.

Shame.

I agree, Dez pushed one defender to the ground then jumped up and catch the ball. Referee had a bad angle and didn't see it the back shot shows it clearly. Win some lose some.

 

[Kevinicus]

You are just making stuff up about 'the right to occupied space'. TWill extended both arms and pushed him from behind. Sometimes it doesn't get called but that doesn't mean it wasn't OPI.

I just don't see a "push." I didn't see an impact on the defender. There is a difference between putting your hands up, or even on the another player and pushing them. Just because arms are extended doesn't mean he pushed. Extended arms can brace as well, or just be used for feel.

 

[Nightman]

I just don't see a "push." I didn't see an impact on the defender. There is a difference between putting your hands up, or even on the another player and pushing them. Just because arms are extended doesn't mean he pushed. Extended arms can brace as well, or just be used for feel.

Then you are the only one that didn't see it. Two flags hit the ground before TWill landed and the DB immediately yelled for the push before he even knew what happened. it doesn't take much to throw off someone's leap.

Like I said, sometimes it doesn't get called but this one was pretty easy.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

he completely stunted the DBs motion. it's clear as day.
easy, justified OPI call.

but would never have been called in our favour

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Granted, we aren't having this conversation if he caught that ball in the second quarter.

 

[Passepartout]

Yeah as things could have changed if he caught the ball.

 

[AzCowboysFan]

It doesn't matter anyway, the defense would've found a way to lose it later on.