CFZ The two bad habits that are killing our chances to get better

[Bobhaze]

Let‘s face it- the Cowboys front office has two very bad habits:

• BAD HABIT #1. Over-valuing our own players.
  • Think about it. We have a whopping two wild card playoff wins with the “cornerstone” talent we’ve built with the best of our last 7 drafts. For years, our front office has looked at guys like Zeke, Dak, Cedee Lamb, Trevon Diggs, and several other players and thought, “We have to keep these guys because look at what we’ve accomplished with them.“
  • We haven’t accomplished that much with them.
  • I‘m not saying all of those guys should be traded or cut. But I am saying THEY AREN‘T ENOUGH.

• BAD HABIT #2. Not being dissatisfied enough with lack of playoff results. The Jones boys apparently are satisfied enough with what they've been getting because if they weren’t satisfied, they would be more aggressive to make changes.
  • If you really want to win a championship, you look at your team with a critical eye, not just assume all the guys you think are good just need another year to “get lucky”.
  • SJ has been saying lately ad nauseum that we are “just a click away”, just need “little more juice”. He and Jerry both act like they haven’t sniffed a championship in 27 years because of “bad luck”.

In my eyes there is only ONE player on this team who is untouchable- Micah Parsons. Literally everyone else is available if by moving them we could get better.

Over-valuing talent means you don’t have the critical eye to see beyond what you like about any player’s past performance. And if you truly want to win a championship, you have to stop thinking, “We’re really close, we just need to get lucky”.

 

[jazzcat22]

Agree, they hang onto marginal players way too long. Bellicheck was a master of knowing when to move on from players. Or so it seems, having Brady covered many of those moves, making them look better than what they may have been. Or at least less impactful.

But they do over value, hence the large contracts, that they keep kicking down the road, because they are afraid to make the move to get out if it.
It is like chasing a stock or hanging onto it, but it will not rebound to the point to make good on it.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

The moment Zack Martin leaves the strength of the Oline crumbles. Who then becomes your best Olineman? Is it really Tyler Biadasz? Or maybe Tyron on the days where he’s been healthy long enough to get back to form?

That’s the most untouchable player, he’s holding up a house of cards.

 

[Sydla]

The moment Zack Martin leaves the strength of the Oline crumbles. Who then becomes your best Olineman? Is it really Tyler Biadasz? Or maybe Tyron on the days where he’s been healthy long enough to get back to form?

That’s the most untouchable player, he’s holding up a house of cards.

If his progress continues, Tyler Smith will likely be their 2nd best OL.

 

[Bobhaze]

The moment Zack Martin leaves the strength of the Oline crumbles. Who then becomes your best Olineman? Is it really Tyler Biadasz? Or maybe Tyron on the days where he’s been healthy long enough to get back to form?

That’s the most untouchable player, he’s holding up a house of cards.

I love Zack Martin. He’s a HOFer for sure and certainly the best OL we have. I agree with you that he’s the absolute must have on this line right now.

But here’s the problem I’m talking about- assuming there’s not someone in our future that could be great too. Every year, there’s great talent in the draft and also great young talent that has been developed in young FAs. Why couldn’t we find a better C than Biadz or a better G than McGovern? Why do we assume we would be worse off if we moved on from them?

 

[Reality]

Let‘s face it- the Cowboys front office has two very bad habits:

• BAD HABIT #1. Over-valuing our own players.
  • Think about it. We have a whopping two wild card playoff wins with the “cornerstone” talent we’ve built with the best of our last 7 drafts. For years, our front office has looked at guys like Zeke, Dak, Cedee Lamb, Trevon Diggs, and several other players and thought, “We have to keep these guys because look at what we’ve accomplished with them.“
  • We haven’t accomplished that much with them.
  • I‘m not saying all of those guys should be traded or cut. But I am saying THEY AREN‘T ENOUGH.
• BAD HABIT #2. Not being dissatisfied enough with lack of playoff results. The Jones boys apparently are satisfied enough with what they've been getting because if they weren’t satisfied, they would be more aggressive to make changes.
  • If you really want to win a championship, you look at your team with a critical eye, not just assume all the guys you think are good just need another year to “get lucky”.
  • SJ has been saying lately ad nauseum that we are “just a click away”, just need “little more juice”. He and Jerry both act like they haven’t sniffed a championship in 27 years because of “bad luck”.

In my eyes there is only ONE player on this team who is untouchable- Micah Parsons. Literally everyone else is available if by moving them we could get better.

Over-valuing talent means you don’t have the critical eye to see beyond what you like about any player’s past performance. And if you truly want to win a championship, you have to stop thinking, “We’re really close, we just need to get lucky”.

I believe the over-valuing our own players is a result of the desire for self-validation by the Cowboys front office.

I think the fans are just as guilty of this though, but for different reasons of course, as we tend to want the team to keep players that played well and/or showed improvement recently.

The Cowboys need to stop waiting to find out how good their young players are until the last year or two of their contracts.

For years I have said that the Cowboys should use the draft and rookie free agents more aggressively than they have.

I think the reason they do not do it is because they have this old school flawed mentality that most players need to be on the team for 2-3 years before they become starters.

That leads to the team seeing one good (or even great) year from a player and then have to start thinking about resigning (and overpaying) them based on that one good season.

If you think about it, most of the non-first round rookies who have had great first or second seasons did so more due to injuries to other players than the wisdom of the front office or coaching staff to make them starters.

As a fan, there are players i like so I am glad they keep them, but the front office and coaching staff need to stop applying the same progression path to every player and instead start thinking about letting some of the players show what they can do right away.

Best case, you find a star player who can help you for years before you have to pay them a higher contract. Worst case, you realize sooner than in the past that they are not the answer which allows you to start looking for the next player.

 

[blueblood70]

Agree, they hang onto marginal players way too long. Bellicheck was a master of knowing when to move on from players. Or so it seems, having Brady covered many of those moves, making them look better than what they may have been. Or at least less impactful.

But they do over value, hence the large contracts, that they keep kicking down the road, because they are afraid to make the move to get out if it.
It is like chasing a stock or hanging onto it, but it will not rebound to the point to make good on it.

OK counterpoint

some are still very upset Copper was cut and IMHO was the exact right move as he was being far overvalued at 22mil he was no longer fit as 1 paid lie 1 but a 2 in 21 heck Dalton was more productive in 21 , and IDC what you all THINK ABOUT THE DRAFT COMP, it was his $$$$$ and timing of guarantees that effected that.. they did no hold onto AC too long they let Cwill, jarwin, and colins plus didn't overvalue Ced everyone was screaming about that..in fact they cut zurlien and also ate Jaylons deal and cut him mid-season.. they are making moves. Overblown they hold onto out players too long, also finally gave up on romo, ware and others. they USED TOO do that, but some are hard to cut with the high cap hits but that coming soon with zeke.

 

[Risen Star]

I'm tired of hearing about Cooper being overpaid. Prescott is overpaid. Zeke is overpaid. So is Lawrence. They could have carried his salary another year and they would have been a better team. Had a better shot at it.

 

[Plankton]

 

[Rayman70]

these ^ 2 bad habits are the issue.

 

[visionary]

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

In my eyes there is only ONE player on this team who is untouchable- Micah Parsons. Literally everyone else is available if by moving them we could get better.

If you want to upgrade the QB position, and obtain an elite young talent with true credentials, Parsons is the one piece that might help get the draft capital you need to do it. Parsons is an exceptional young talent on his ascension. He is the most valuable piece the team has. His trade value will never be higher. The best teams will trade any player if the price is right. JJ prefers marriage. In a few years, we will witness a declining player, taking up an enormous portion of the cap. No way I'm trading him if the team has a QB. They don't.

Lamb is a stud too. Maybe there are better WR's in the league, but I think it would be extremely difficult to upgrade there. Imagine if he had an accurate QB, and another good WR opposite him to take some pressure off. He could rack up incredible numbers.

 

[Bobhaze]

If you want to upgrade the QB position, and obtain an elite young talent with true credentials, Parsons is the one piece that might help get the draft capital you need to do it. Parsons is an exceptional young talent on his ascension. He is the most valuable piece the team has. His trade value will never be higher. The best teams will trade any player if the price is right. JJ prefers marriage. In a few years, we will witness a declining player, taking up an enormous portion of the cap. No way I'm trading him if the team has a QB. They don't.

Lamb is a stud too. Maybe there are better WR's in the league, but I think it would be extremely difficult to upgrade there. Imagine if he had an accurate QB, and another good WR opposite him to take some pressure off. He could rack up incredible numbers.

I agree with you that Lamb is a stud. But my problem with this FO is they fall in love with and PAY guys that are decent but not great. I wouldn’t be opposed to paying Lamb with a longer term deal. But I don’t feel that way about a lot of other guys that are almost due to get paid. Diggs? Not sure he’s good enough to warrant a fat $15-20 mil a season contract.

My problem is paying big money for guys that can be replaced with another good player for less money. This FO over-values the guys they draft. Your FO should always have a critical eye about the players on their roster. Ok, someone is good- but can we get better with someone else?

What have we accomplished with what we have? The real answer is not that much. Regular season success is important. But shouldn’t we judge success by playoff wins?

 

[Bobhaze]

I believe the over-valuing our own players is a result of the desire for self-validation by the Cowboys front office.

I think the fans are just as guilty of this though, but for different reasons of course, as we tend to want the team to keep players that played well and/or showed improvement recently.

The Cowboys need to stop waiting to find out how good their young players are until the last year or two of their contracts.

For years I have said that the Cowboys should use the draft and rookie free agents more aggressively than they have.

I think the reason they do not do it is because they have this old school flawed mentality that most players need to be on the team for 2-3 years before they become starters.

That leads to the team seeing one good (or even great) year from a player and then have to start thinking about resigning (and overpaying) them based on that one good season.

If you think about it, most of the non-first round rookies who have had great first or second seasons did so more due to injuries to other players than the wisdom of the front office or coaching staff to make them starters.

As a fan, there are players i like so I am glad they keep them, but the front office and coaching staff need to stop applying the same progression path to every player and instead start thinking about letting some of the players show what they can do right away.

Best case, you find a star player who can help you for years before you have to pay them a higher contract. Worst case, you realize sooner than it the past that they are not the answer which allows you to start looking for the next player.

The first sentence of this post is devastatingly true. It’s what drives Jerry. And it’s been killing this team for decades.

 

[john van brocklin]

Let‘s face it- the Cowboys front office has two very bad habits:

• BAD HABIT #1. Over-valuing our own players.
  • Think about it. We have a whopping two wild card playoff wins with the “cornerstone” talent we’ve built with the best of our last 7 drafts. For years, our front office has looked at guys like Zeke, Dak, Cedee Lamb, Trevon Diggs, and several other players and thought, “We have to keep these guys because look at what we’ve accomplished with them.“
  • We haven’t accomplished that much with them.
  • I‘m not saying all of those guys should be traded or cut. But I am saying THEY AREN‘T ENOUGH.
• BAD HABIT #2. Not being dissatisfied enough with lack of playoff results. The Jones boys apparently are satisfied enough with what they've been getting because if they weren’t satisfied, they would be more aggressive to make changes.
  • If you really want to win a championship, you look at your team with a critical eye, not just assume all the guys you think are good just need another year to “get lucky”.
  • SJ has been saying lately ad nauseum that we are “just a click away”, just need “little more juice”. He and Jerry both act like they haven’t sniffed a championship in 27 years because of “bad luck”.

In my eyes there is only ONE player on this team who is untouchable- Micah Parsons. Literally everyone else is available if by moving them we could get better.

Over-valuing talent means you don’t have the critical eye to see beyond what you like about any player’s past performance. And if you truly want to win a championship, you have to stop thinking, “We’re really close, we just need to get lucky”.

 

[blueblood70]

I agree with you that Lamb is a stud. But my problem with this FO is they fall in love with and PAY guys that are decent but not great. I wouldn’t be opposed to paying Lamb with a longer term deal. But I don’t feel that way about a lot of other guys that are almost due to get paid. Diggs? Not sure he’s good enough to warrant a fat $15-20 mil a season contract.

My problem is paying big money for guys that can be replaced with another good player for less money. This FO over-values the guys they draft. Your FO should always have a critical eye about the players on their roster. Ok, someone is good- but can we get better with someone else?

What have we accomplished with what we have? The real answer is not that much. Regular season success is important. But shouldn’t we judge success by playoff wins?

15?? its nice you think thats the starting price for top 5 TYPE CB..he would laugh at that and pack his stuff for sure. you have Ramseys wanting to be traded which would be 1st or 2nd maybe more and his current 3yr 60mil hes owed wasn't enough wants new deal. looks to me that stat near 18 and could be more as that the FT for this year.

• Quarterback: $32.42MM
• Running back: $10.1MM
• Wide receiver: $19.74MM
• Tight end: $11.36MM
• Offensive linemen: $18.24MM
• Defensive end: $19.73MM
• Defensive tackle: $18.94MM
• Linebacker: $20.93MM
• Cornerback: $18.14MM
• Safety: $14.46MM
• Kicker/punter: $5.39MM

 

[john van brocklin]

these ^ 2 bad habits are the issue.

 

[KJJ]

One of our bad habits is counting on players that are coming off injuries or have an injury history.

 

[Diehardblues]

These threads are admirable and well thought out which most would agree but this quest to win a championship isn’t even a priority of our ownership . Sad but true ..lol

On one hand we have threads detailing why this ownership hasn’t been able to build a championship caliber team and the symptoms thereof but on the other hand we continue these dialogues this ownership isn’t likely to follow which has been documented relentlessly.

 

[CATCH17]

Let‘s face it- the Cowboys front office has two very bad habits:

• BAD HABIT #1. Over-valuing our own players.
  • Think about it. We have a whopping two wild card playoff wins with the “cornerstone” talent we’ve built with the best of our last 7 drafts. For years, our front office has looked at guys like Zeke, Dak, Cedee Lamb, Trevon Diggs, and several other players and thought, “We have to keep these guys because look at what we’ve accomplished with them.“
  • We haven’t accomplished that much with them.
  • I‘m not saying all of those guys should be traded or cut. But I am saying THEY AREN‘T ENOUGH.
• BAD HABIT #2. Not being dissatisfied enough with lack of playoff results. The Jones boys apparently are satisfied enough with what they've been getting because if they weren’t satisfied, they would be more aggressive to make changes.
  • If you really want to win a championship, you look at your team with a critical eye, not just assume all the guys you think are good just need another year to “get lucky”.
  • SJ has been saying lately ad nauseum that we are “just a click away”, just need “little more juice”. He and Jerry both act like they haven’t sniffed a championship in 27 years because of “bad luck”.

In my eyes there is only ONE player on this team who is untouchable- Micah Parsons. Literally everyone else is available if by moving them we could get better.

Over-valuing talent means you don’t have the critical eye to see beyond what you like about any player’s past performance. And if you truly want to win a championship, you have to stop thinking, “We’re really close, we just need to get lucky”.

Absolutely..

#2 has to do with them not wanting to take a risk and they like the perennial being in the hunt team that is no threat to a Super Bowl.

It’s unreal we couldn’t at the very least get to a nfc title game this year.

The NFC was down bigtime this year.