There is only ONE condition where trading J.Jones makes sense.

[DBoys]

You have no idea what Barber was given nor what Jones was given.

And if you think that teams were stacking the box with Owens and Glenn out wide then you just need to put the pipe down and go to bed. Youre going back to the Barber got all of his yards of 3rd and 35 but Jones played againts 11 in the box argument and just trying to put it in a different disguise.

Jones sucked for the second half after being lights out the first. Jones comes out and is lights out then gets hurt. Noticing a trend here?

I saw the games and the schemes or am I blind according to you? You want to bet on how many people were in the box with JJ and Barber? The 3rd and 35 is your pipe dream I said 3rd down.

You come after me with the same very excuses your accusing me of.

Jones lights out then gets hurt. He wasn't hurt last year.

The run blocking this year was not very good.

 

[ccb04]

This is garbage his YPC on first and second down was like 4.9. Barber wasnt exactly playing against prevents in the red zone either.

As for Jones, he needed to have his carries limited because it was pretty evident that he was avoiding contact and running scared out there. he gets dinged up and doesnt like getting hit. It is what it is. Criticizing Parcells for seeing what Jones is is nothing bad.

Give him 10 carries a game and hell be an excellent cog in this offense. Give him 20 and he breaks down or gets injured. ** is right on the money when he says we shouldnt just get rid of him but seeing him as anything other than a 10 carries a game guy is jsut as silly.

Juliius as a change of pace back is a very valuable commodity and it took 2.5 seasons to figure it out. it should be no surprise that he had his resurgence at the end of the season after Parcells 'rested' him. Use him between the twenties and limit his carries is all that i ask.

Resurgence? Nah. He was simply given the carries he needs to be effective in the playoff game. Jones is more effective when he gets more carries.

Julius Jones through week 10: 201 carries, 813 yards

Stephen Jackson through week 10: 196 carries, 811 yards

Jackson had 86 more carries than Jones over the final 6 weeks.

Through the 1st 7 weeks of the season, he was top 6 in rushing ... had 3 100+ yard games and 2 90+ yard efforts. In that time, he had 20+ carries 5 times and 17 carries to open the season. The only bad game he had in that time, was a 13 carry game vs. the Giants ... and that game sucked for everyone. When given the ball 22 times vs. Seattle, he had 112 yards.

Quite simply, JJ needs to see the ball more, not less. Give him 18-22 carries per game and he'll produce. Also, get him the ball more on screens ... as he also averaged 15.8 yards per catch.

Week 1 vs. JAC: 17 carries, 72 yards (4.2 ypc), 1 TD ... 1 catch for 39 yards

Week 2 vs. WAS: 20 carries, 94 yards (4.7 ypc)

Week 3 vs. TEN: 23 carries, 122 yards (5.3 ypc), 1 TD

Week 4 vs. PHI: 26 carries, 100 yards (3.8 ypc) ... 1 catch for 22 yards

Week 5 vs. HOU: 22 carries, 108 yards (4.8 ypc)

Week 6 vs. NYG: 13 carries, 30 yards

Week 7 vs. CAR: 22 carries, 94 yards (3.8 ypc), 1 TD

Week 8 vs. WAS: 20 carries, 73 yards (This was his worst higher carry game)

Week 10 vs. IND: 22 carries, 79 yards ... 3 catches for 25 yards

Playoffs vs. SEA: 22 carries, 112 yards

As mentioned, over the final 6 weeks ... he never had more than 13 carries in a game. And while he did have 116 yards vs. the Saints on just 10 carries ... the bulk of that came on a 77 yard TD run.

In his rookie season, he never carried the ball less than 22 times after returning from injury. And his 3 monstrous games included 33 carries for 150 yards ... 30 carries for 198 yards ... and 29 carries for 149 yards.

Both Barber and Jones have always shared carries ... to include in college. Despite another back getting over 120 carries his Senior year at ND ... Jones still managed 1268 yards and 10 TD's.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Barber had 97 carries on 1st and 2nd down ... three times as many as he had on 3rd down. He averaged 4.89 ypc on those carries.

Barber averaged 5.5 ypc on 1st and 10 on 46 attempts. Equivalent of about a third of his total carries.


Barber had 12 carries in 3rd and 6+. He had 22 carries in 3rd and less than 2.

64 of his 135 attempts, almost half, came in a base package 2 WR set ... he averaged 5.2 ypc. He had 27 carries in packages of 0-1 WR ... in other words, short yardage. 59 of Barber's carries came against defenses with at least 5 men stacked on the line of scrimmage.



That shattering sound you hear is the "Barber just got all his yards on 3rd and 15" myth breaking into a million pieces.


This isn't to prove that MB3 is the second coming of Earl Campbell. I don't think Barber is a 25 carry a game back either. This is just to show that Julius' excuses hold no weight. He had a teammate who put up better than average numbers in the same offense with the same head coach with the same offensive line. Stop it with the Julius excuse making. After three years its just sad.

 

[DBoys]

Im not mad. People misinterpret disgust with anger. It truly isnt the same thing.

My point is that it is hypocritical of you to ask for specific, empirical evidence when the only leg you have to stand on is your anecdotal he got all of his carries on third down.

Barber had 97 carries on first and second down. He had only 34 carries on third. That kind of blows everything up for you now doesnt it?

He also scored TDs in four out the first 6 games so your anecdote about him not being our goalline back at the beggining of the year is also bad.

Of those 1st and 2nd downs 51 attempts were inside the 20.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I saw the games and the schemes or am I blind according to you? You want to bet on how many people were in the box with JJ and Barber? The 3rd and 35 is your pipe dream I said 3rd down.

You come after me with the same very excuses your accusing me of.

Your blind. Here is a link to his splits where it shows that he had the majority of his runs against a regular 4 man front and a standard 2WR I formation. Sorry but people were playing safties deep against us all year. Glenn and Owens say hello.

Jones lights out then gets hurt. He wasn't hurt last year.

No but he was the previous two years.

The run blocking this year was not very good.

See now were beginning to go around in circles. The whole OLine excuse has been refuted. For old times sake Ill repeat the refutation.

If the offensive line remained constant throughout the year then it is impossible for it to be the cause of Jones' decline in production.

The coaching staff remained constant as well. i guess the tooth fairy did it to him cause it couldnt be that the guy just isnt durable.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Of those 1st and 2nd downs 51 attempts were inside the 20.

Where its harder to run. So whats your point?

 

[DBoys]

Barber had 97 carries on 1st and 2nd down ... three times as many as he had on 3rd down. He averaged 4.89 ypc on those carries.

Barber averaged 5.5 ypc on 1st and 10 on 46 attempts. Equivalent of about a third of his total carries.


Barber had 12 carries in 3rd and 6+. He had 22 carries in 3rd and less than 2.

64 of his 135 attempts, almost half, came in a base package 2 WR set ... he averaged 5.2 ypc. He had 27 carries in packages of 0-1 WR ... in other words, short yardage. 59 of Barber's carries came against defenses with at least 5 men stacked on the line of scrimmage.



That shattering sound you hear is the "Barber just got all his yards on 3rd and 15" myth breaking into a million pieces.


This isn't to prove that MB3 is the second coming of Earl Campbell. I don't think Barber is a 25 carry a game back either. This is just to show that Julius' excuses hold no weight. He had a teammate who put up better than average numbers in the same offense with the same head coach with the same offensive line. Stop it with the Julius excuse making. After three years its just sad.

G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1st
1ST HALF 0 43 163 3.8 25 4 13
2ND HALF 0 92 491 5.3 24 10 33

 

[ccb04]

Also, it wasn't only Jones who had his carries reduced in the final weeks of the season. Prehaps it had less to do with rest ... and more to do with the defense collapsing concerning both RB's.

In the Saints massacre, Barber had 2 carries for -1 yard. He had 6 carries for 3 yards in the 23-7 loss to Philly. And just 7 carries for 15 yards in the 39-31 loss to Detroit. In the Playoff game vs. Seattle ... he had just 3 carries for 4 yards.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Resurgence? Nah. He was simply given the carries he needs to be effective in the playoff game. Jones is more effective when he gets more carries.

Julius Jones through week 10: 201 carries, 813 yards

Stephen Jackson through week 10: 196 carries, 811 yards

Jackson had 86 more carries than Jones over the final 6 weeks.

Through the 1st 7 weeks of the season, he was top 6 in rushing ... had 3 100+ yard games and 2 90+ yard efforts. In that time, he had 20+ carries 5 times and 17 carries to open the season. The only bad game he had in that time, was a 13 carry game vs. the Giants ... and that game sucked for everyone. When given the ball 22 times vs. Seattle, he had 112 yards.

Quite simply, JJ needs to see the ball more, not less. Give him 18-22 carries per game and he'll produce. Also, get him the ball more on screens ... as he also averaged 15.8 yards per catch.

Week 1 vs. JAC: 17 carries, 72 yards (4.2 ypc), 1 TD ... 1 catch for 39 yards

Week 2 vs. WAS: 20 carries, 94 yards (4.7 ypc)

Week 3 vs. TEN: 23 carries, 122 yards (5.3 ypc), 1 TD

Week 4 vs. PHI: 26 carries, 100 yards (3.8 ypc) ... 1 catch for 22 yards

Week 5 vs. HOU: 22 carries, 108 yards (4.8 ypc)

Week 6 vs. NYG: 13 carries, 30 yards

Week 7 vs. CAR: 22 carries, 94 yards (3.8 ypc), 1 TD

Week 8 vs. WAS: 20 carries, 73 yards (This was his worst higher carry game)

Week 10 vs. IND: 22 carries, 79 yards ... 3 catches for 25 yards

Playoffs vs. SEA: 22 carries, 112 yards

As mentioned, over the final 6 weeks ... he never had more than 13 carries in a game. And while he did have 116 yards vs. the Saints on just 10 carries ... the bulk of that came on a 77 yard TD run.

In his rookie season, he never carried the ball less than 22 times after returning from injury. And his 3 monstrous games included 33 carries for 150 yards ... 30 carries for 198 yards ... and 29 carries for 149 yards.

Both Barber and Jones have always shared carries ... to include in college. Despite another back getting over 120 carries his Senior year at ND ... Jones still managed 1268 yards and 10 TD's.

He got 3.2 yards a carry in the fourth quarter. He has a 3.5 YPC average after 15 attempts in a game but hey just show all of his good games and then one where he wasnt playing m,uch because he sucked and that really shows something.

 

[DBoys]

Your blind. Here[/rl] is a link to his splits where it shows that he had the majority of his runs against a regular 4 man front and a standard 2WR I formation. Sorry but people were playing safties deep against us all year. Glenn and Owens say hello.



No but he was the previous two years.



See now were beginning to go around in circles. The whole OLine excuse has been refuted. For old times sake Ill repeat the refutation.

If the offensive line remained constant throughout the year then it is impossible for it to be the cause of Jones' decline in production.

The coaching staff remained constant as well. i guess the tooth fairy did it to him cause it couldnt be that the guy just isnt durable.

Ok the OL is good . Thats why we just got a RG for 50mil.

The difference is Bledsoe 1st half and Romo 2nd half. Ellis getting hurt and playing from behind.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Also, it wasn't only Jones who had his carries reduced in the final weeks of the season. Prehaps it had less to do with rest ... and more to do with the defense collapsing concerning both RB's.

In the Saints massacre, Barber had 2 carries for -1 yard. He had 6 carries for 3 yards in the 23-7 loss to Philly. And just 7 carries for 15 yards in the 39-31 loss to Detroit. In the Playoff game vs. Seattle ... he had just 3 carries for 4 yards.

Im not saying that Barber is the messiah. i actually really hope Lynch falls to us.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ok the OL is good . Thats why we just got a RG for 50mil.

The difference is Bledsoe 1st half and Romo 2nd half. Ellis getting hurt and playing from behind.

Oh because our passing game got better with Romo is the reason why he sucked. Yeah that threat to pass sure hinders the run game. :bang2:

Im nnot saying it was good. i am saying it was the same.

 

[DBoys]

Oh because our passing game got better with Romo is the reason why he sucked. Yeah that threat to pass sure hinders the run game. :bang2:

Jeez where did I say that . We had different QB's or does that not matter?

JJ had a thousand yards that is not sucky.

 

[ccb04]

He got 3.2 yards a carry in the fourth quarter. He has a 3.5 YPC average after 15 attempts in a game but hey just show all of his good games and then one where he wasnt playing m,uch because he sucked and that really shows something.

As mentioned ... in the final 6 games of the season, he never carried the ball more than 13 times in a game, and the premise was that he needs more carries to be effective. The 10 games shown were the ones in which he had his most carries. With the exception of the Saints game ... his worst games came when he had his fewest carries. Look it up.

And as I also mentioned, when the defense collapsed towards the end ... Barber didn't fair so well either.

When it came down to crunch time (one-and-done) in the playoffs ... Parcells showed who he trusted more by giving Jones 22 carries and Barber only 3.

And sure, fatigue will play a factor as the season wears on. Barber should have been the fresher of the two ... as Jones nearly doubled his carries. Barber excelled in his role while receiving fewer carries ... while Jones performed at his best when given more carries. The numbers bare this out.

Personally, I love the tandem and can't see why so many are hell-bent on breaking it up. Matter of fact, I think they should be in the backfield together far more often.

 

[DBoys]

Personally, I love the tandem and can't see why so many are hell-bent on breaking it up. Matter of fact, I think they should be in the backfield together far more often.

Me too

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

As mentioned ... in the final 6 games of the season, he never carried the ball more than 13 times in a game, and the premise was that he needs more carries to be effective. The 10 games shown were the ones in which he had his most carries. With the exception of the Saints game ... his worst games came when he had his fewest carries. Look it up.

And as I also mentioned, when the defense collapsed towards the end ... Barber didn't fair so well either.

When it came down to crunch time (one-and-done) in the playoffs ... Parcells showed who he trusted more by giving Jones 22 carries and Barber only 3.

And sure, fatigue will play a factor as the season wears on. Barber should have been the fresher of the two ... as Jones nearly doubled his carries. Barber excelled in his role while receiving fewer carries ... while Jones performed at his best when given more carries. The numbers bare this out.

Personally, I love the tandem and can't see why so many are hell-bent on breaking it up. Matter of fact, I think they should be in the backfield together far more often.

HIS YARD PER CARRIES AFTER 15 CARRIES WAS 3.5. THIS MEANS THAT IF YOU GIVE HIM MORE THAN 15 CARRIES HE SUCKS AT IT.

That means that your generalized stats are not represntative. He got more carries because he played well early and was rewarded. He still sucked with more carries. It was the games where he sucked early that he didnt get more carries.

Im not saying release either of them. I just want a better back than both of them on the roster as well. Both of their stats after 15 carries are bad. If we were to see one ge ta seriosu injury we would be screwed.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Jeez where did I say that . We had different QB's or does that not matter?

JJ had a thousand yards that is not sucky.

No but that different QB would have made life easier not more difficult. And his whole season was average not bad but his second half was terrible.

 

[ccb04]

It was the games where he sucked early that he didnt get more carries.

He certainly didn't suck early in the Saints game ... yet received only 10 carries ... and Barber had only 2 carries for -1 yard. The defense forcing the offense to become one dimensional to play catch up in a few games hurt the running game ... Barber included towards the end. Jones also didn't start the playoff game vs. Seattle on fire ... but got better as the game progressed, particularly after he got into the altercation.

 

[InmanRoshi]

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Personally, I love the tandem and can't see why so many are hell-bent on breaking it up.

Ugh, maybe because its going to be broken up anyway when Julius walks in free agency next year.

Why so many have failed to get that through their heads is beyond me.

 

[Chuck 54]

Julius Jones is coming towards the end of his contract, after which we'll get nothing for him, and we certainly are not going to sign him to a new big money contract...the guy is a 2-down back who can't catch the ball, and he's not a super star in the making...I like Jones, but he's a dime a dozen RB in the NFL.

Here's why you trade him:

1. BEcause you have determined that you like Barber better as your starting RB who doesn't have to come off the field for any down, including short yardage and passing downs...believe it or not, it helps to have a receiving RB in the game on downs 1 and 2 as well, putting more pressure on the LB's.

2. Because someone offers you a 2nd round pick, which means you recoup what you used on him to begin with and can start over with another RB either this year or next year.

3. Because you've seen enough tape to see that Tyson Thompson can get to the corner and give you the change of pace back that JJ would be with Barber starting.

4. Because, honestly, he's not really worth a 2nd round pick, and if you can get it, you'd better jump on it before he walks next year for nothing.