This is the deal with Goodell

[xwalker]

The video of the incident with Rice came out after the 2 game suspension was announced, the league didn't have access to the video, when the video came out and every NEWS network showed it nationwide, the proverbial crap hit the fan, women's groups were outraged, advertisers were outraged, Congress had hearings and the league had to start taking domestic violence more seriously, when for decades they swept it under the rug..

People say it was sent to the league before the suspension.

How could the NFL not have known about it.

The first thing an investigator would determine is if there was a camera where this happened. The Hotel would not withhold it from authorities.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

Bottom line: in the NFL, it's not what you do or don't do.

It's who you are when you are or aren't doing it.

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

The next CBA will undoubtedly prevent the commissioner from having this power but will give up a lot to get it weakening the players union even more.. It is why Goodell is just wielding it with such force.

Why do the players have to give up a lot. I don't buy into that because they make enough money to sit out games. I know the owners are more able to handle a strike but are more greedy and will probably back down quicker.

 

[The Quest for Six]

People say it was sent to the league before the suspension.

How could the NFL not have known about it.

The first thing an investigator would determine is if there was a camera where this happened. The Hotel would not withhold it from authorities.

An NFL investigator doesn't have subpoena power, they cant make witnesses give statements and the DA and Police aren't going to turn over evidence from their investigation to the NFL after there was an agreed plea bargain resolution in the case and the video was obtain from some outside media source that paid money for it from some employee who apparently stole it after the suspension was issued...the hotel refused to cooperate with the NFL and the media report that the video was emailed to a person in the NFL offices, turned out the name on the email never worked in the NFL offices, as I remember it...

 

[xwalker]

An NFL investigator doesn't have subpoena power, they cant make witnesses give statements and the DA and Police aren't going to turn over evidence from their investigation to the NFL after there was an agreed plea bargain resolution in the case and the video was obtain from some outside media source that paid money for it from some employee who apparently stole it after the suspension was issued...the hotel refused to cooperate with the NFL and the media report that the video was emailed to a person in the NFL offices, turned out the name on the email never worked in the NFL offices, as I remember it...

The NFL has more money than TMZ or whoever obtained the video.

Local authorities would cooperate if Ray Rice gave permission. If he didn't then he was withholding evidence.

 

[The Quest for Six]

The NFL has more money than TMZ or whoever obtained the video.

Local authorities would cooperate if Ray Rice gave permission. If he didn't then he was withholding evidence.

Did the guy that stole the video go to the NFL with it....no he did not, he went to TMZ,.... why, because he would get paid for it

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Somebody did deflate the balls. It didn't seem like they had proof of who, but somebody definitey deflated the balls.

It was actually good for Pats fans that Goodell accused Brady; otherwise, the other owners would have insisted on MAJOR ramifications to the team as in SMU death penalty major.

Many believe Goodell intentionally botched things to allow Brady to win in court.

Leaks from NFL Headquarter indicate Goodell didn't want to appeal the original decision that over-turned the suspension but the other owners insisted.

The Pats got an extra year to prepare for Brady to miss 4 games, IIRC.

Shouldn't the Brady suspension either have been zero games OR waaaay more than 4 games?

Deflating balls interferes with the fabric and competitive balance of the game. Off-field transgressions do not.

ahh, no. No footballs were deflated by anyone other than mother nature. It happens every week in late season games. Goodell had plenty of opportunity to reconsider as scientists from coast to coast weighed in on the subject, but instead he doubled down by lying and misleading again and again, which apparently was effective on fans like yourself.

RG's not an honorable guy. He's got a deep slimy streak in him, and also lacks good judgement. The contrast to previous commissioners is stark.

 

[Toomany10pins]

Maybe when Goodell has a spat with Mara and it ends up as a DV incident he'll suspend himself.

Ok, that was funny right there!

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Exactly. The whole Goodell/Kraft rift is a facade, played up only in public eye and via shills through the media. Behind the scenes there is a tight relationship there. Has anything Goodell ever done that hurt the Pats when it mattered? Nope. Every so-called "punishment" has been skillfully contrived not to impact the Pats too much. He even destroyed the evidence of Spygate. The Pats have been involved with multiple integrity violations in the game, yet they've been to seven Super Bowls in sixteen years, winning five of them (losing only to Mara's Giants). The Goodell/Kraft family relationship goes back a generation. Goodell even went to Israel of all places to show his support for Kraft. It makes me smirk when people think Brady/Kraft "handed" it to Goodell last year. There is a mutually beneficial underlying deception there if you look beneath the superficiality.

Deflategate, Bountygate, cases like Elliot's, and others that have been overturned in court prove that Goodell is both unethical and incompetent. They cast huge shadows over all his other punishments including Spygate, another molehill skillfully turned into a mountain by our man Roger. It's hard to think of any major case he's gotten right.

For the record, NE lost a 1st rounder over Spygate, which at most should've have been a 4th or 5th rounder, and then a 1st and 4th (plus Brady 4 games) for Deflategate, a crime that never happened. How anyone can ever say they haven't been punished enough is ludicrous.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Goodell had texts of McNally and Jastremski discussing deflating footballs for 'Tom' and Tom was going to pay them money to do so. There is no doubt in my mind that 'Tom' was Tom Brady.

Where Brady got suspended was he had a phone that the investigators wanted to see with Brady and his lawyers present to look at the texts. Tom heard about this and literally destroyed his phone on purpose so the investigators couldn't see it.

The footballs were deflated. They were not at least 12.5 PSI. While I agree that nature would reduce the PSI naturally, according to all of the scientists the footballs should have deflated by 1.0 PSI. The footballs were at an average of 11.33 PSI. The claim of the scientists is that there is some margin for error and that 11.33 PSI falls within that margin for error.

The problem is that nobody said you could use the average to prove Brady's innocence. If he deflated ONE football...he cheated. And there were at least 4 footballs that were well below the projected PSI with the margin for error.

Where Goodell screwed up is that he simply needed to properly calibrate the gauges and then record the footballs PSI prior to the game. All they did was check to see if the PSI was within the 12.5 to 13.5 PSI range. So, a football that may have been measured at 11.5 PSI at halftime may have started off at 13.3 PSI prior to the game. We won't know because Goodell and Wells overlooked this.

But given that there were footballs below that 11.5 PSI with the margin for error, the texts showing that they planned to deflate footballs in the past and that Tom was paying them to do so and the video of McNally sneaking off to the bathroom with the footballs which breaks the protocol and Brady destroying his phone on purpose to thwart an investigation...Patriots have little to argue about other than Goodell and Wells could have made this a lot easier on themselves if they had some sort of competence.

The thing that scares me is the Saints ordeal. They railroaded the team with no evidence that the players or coaches were taking Gregg Williams seriously, that anybody picked up any money or that they played dirty in any of the games.

Goodell may have bitten off more than he can chew. EE could easily argue that there was racism involved as Josh Brown, a white kicker who brutally beat his wife and fully admitted to it...got a 1 game suspension. He could also argue race given that the league is taking a white woman's word who was *proven* to have lied about being assaulted by EE over a black man's word. Combine that with Jerry's power and how he has treated the Brady, Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, the Saints, the StarCaps, SpyGate, etc. situations...the patience is running thin with the owners, players and the fans.

Goodell will make out fine in the end given the ridiculous amount of money he's been paid over the years. But he could be fired as commissioner and enough owners have enough power to revoke his membership from Augusta National which will really sting for him since he covets it so much.





YR

 

[xwalker]

ahh, no. No footballs were deflated by anyone other than mother nature. It happens every week in late season games. Goodell had plenty of opportunity to reconsider as scientists from coast to coast weighed in on the subject, but instead he doubled down by lying and misleading again and again, which apparently was effective on fans like yourself.

RG's not an honorable guy. He's got a deep slimy streak in him, and also lacks good judgement. The contrast to previous commissioners is stark.

I ingested reams of info back when all of that was going on.

The pressure difference was more than it would be just from temp changes or atmospheric conditions.

They even checked balls in real games at some point later and none were that low on pressure.

The Colts balls were checked and they had basically not lost any pressure.

There were people claiming science showed it was impossible but I have a background in science and engineering and there was a lot of fake science being bandied about.

The Patriots have cheated multiple times.

Claiming the Patriots don't cheat is like claiming the Cowboys players never get in trouble.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I ingested reams of info back when all of that was going on.

The pressure difference was more than it would be just from temp changes or atmospheric conditions.

They even checked balls in real games at some point later and none were that low on pressure.

The Colts balls were checked and they had basically not lost any pressure.

There were people claiming science showed it was impossible but I have a background in science and engineering and there was a lot of fake science being bandied about.

The Patriots have cheated multiple times.

Claiming the Patriots don't cheat is like claiming the Cowboys players never get in trouble.

Everything you guys are saying is right from the mouth of the Goodell PR machine. None of it's true, or the parts that are were insignificant offenses blown way out of proportion by this megalomaniac. Now that you've been stung, when you look at the Saints case, and cases that judges have thrown out of court in 2 seconds flat, don't you see a pattern?

Elliott hasn't nearly been proven guilty, reams of doubt about what actually happened. But around the country, the average fan now considers Elliott to be a total dirtbag, guilty as sin due to this sentence, just as you think Brady and the Pats are. And it's all without foundation. Even if some of it did happen, the punishments are insane, not consistent with precedent or common sense, furthering the perception that something bad must have happened. In reality it's just a clueless f**k throwing his weight around and ruining people's reputations.

 

[khiladi]

People say it was sent to the league before the suspension.

How could the NFL not have known about it.

The first thing an investigator would determine is if there was a camera where this happened. The Hotel would not withhold it from authorities.

NFL claimed that the tape they had just showed Rice dragging his fiancé out the elevator, but not hitting her. He also lied saying Rice never mentioned hitting her in his testimony, but an arbitrator confirmed Rice's side.

NFL set up an 'independent' investigation to determine if Goodell had access to the tapes, which they 'determined' they didn't but they said that the NFL and Goodell made mistake in not pursuing it further.

It was basically just a cover up. Goodell saw the tape and multiple parties supposedly did, including Rice himself.

 

[khiladi]

Deflategate, Bountygate, cases like Elliot's, and others that have been overturned in court prove that Goodell is both unethical and incompetent. They cast huge shadows over all his other punishments including Spygate, another molehill skillfully turned into a mountain by our man Roger. It's hard to think of any major case he's gotten right.

For the record, NE lost a 1st rounder over Spygate, which at most should've have been a 4th or 5th rounder, and then a 1st and 4th (plus Brady 4 games) for Deflategate, a crime that never happened. How anyone can ever say they haven't been punished enough is ludicrous.

Actually, it was Spectre that raised the issue of Spygate after Goodell destroyed the tapes for Kraft and Bellichek, who lied when he claimed ignorance.

Bellichek was warned the year before Spygate even happened by the league, because the Patriots got caught dressing up videographers in other teams outfits taping from the sidelines. Charlie Cassetly mentioned this in a Miami Herald article from 2006.

Specter was breathing down the NFL and Goodell's neck and then Kraft had to get his buddy Ted Kennedy to get involved. Roger tooth and nail was covering for his good buddy but then Spectr got involved. Goodell's father was a right hand man of Robert Kennedy and affiliated with the Kennedy's, like Kraft who was a major donor for Ted and has a picture of himself and the Senator on his desk.

 

[lockster]

I've

I think (and hope) that there will be another players strike.

always been against strikes until the end of the last one when the owners snuck in the discipline clause, at that point, I knew what was coming and I wasn't wrong. I think the head of player union sold the players out. Smith? I bet he has a big offshore account in the Bahamas or somewhere he received from the nfl. They need a new head of Nflpa, like one that says " if the glove don't fit ur collective bargaining contract ain't worth a bit!" ! Ronnie Lott & Erik Williams for Nflpa rep. Larry Allen , officer at arms , Darren woodson keeper of accounts. Charles Haley, public relations director( ill piss on you). Michael Irvin, entertainment director. Stepnoski, overseer of illegal substances, newton, acquisitions of supplies, Deion(celebration coordinator), Kenneth gant (head of posse), ray Donaldson(retirement fund) !

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

I've

always been against strikes until the end of the last one when the owners snuck in the discipline clause, at that point, I knew what was coming and I wasn't wrong. I think the head of player union sold the players out. Smith? I bet he has a big offshore account in the Bahamas or somewhere he received from the nfl. They need a new head of Nflpa, like one that says " if the glove don't fit ur collective bargaining contract ain't worth a bit!" ! Ronnie Lott & Erik Williams for Nflpa rep. Larry Allen , officer at arms , Darren woodson keeper of accounts. Charles Haley, public relations director( ill piss on you). Michael Irvin, entertainment director. Stepnoski, overseer of illegal substances, newton, acquisitions of supplies, Deion(celebration coordinator), Kenneth gant (head of posse), ray Donaldson(retirement fund) !

I''ve always been against the strikes too. Even rooted for the scrubs back in 1987. No more. I'll never support the owners again. If they have to strike to fix this then so be it because it is ruining the NFL.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Everything you guys are saying is right from the mouth of the Goodell PR machine. None of it's true, or the parts that are were insignificant offenses blown way out of proportion by this megalomaniac. Now that you've been stung, when you look at the Saints case, and cases that judges have thrown out of court in 2 seconds flat, don't you see a pattern?

Elliott hasn't nearly been proven guilty, reams of doubt about what actually happened. But around the country, the average fan now considers Elliott to be a total dirtbag, guilty as sin due to this sentence, just as you think Brady and the Pats are. And it's all without foundation. Even if some of it did happen, the punishments are insane, not consistent with precedent or common sense, furthering the perception that something bad must have happened. In reality it's just a clueless f**k throwing his weight around and ruining people's reputations.

I hear what you're saying. I was for what happened to Brady because I thought he did it. Even when I supported Goodell in this I still never liked him. But I didn't like the way he dragged it out and I also suspected if he went after Brady he could go after anybody. I was right. Everything else you are right about. I was for the Saints in bountygate. I thought that whole thing was ridiculous and the punishment was even worse. He ruined the Saints season and I don't know if they ever recovered. Anyway you guys showed him. If for nothing else you won the SB. I secretly enjoyed seeing the Commish eat crow on that. Thanks for giving us your support. It isn't about one team anymore. This guy is ruining the game for all fans.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

The NFL is looking to expand its fanbase BEYOND people who love and/or played sports. Focusing on the lives of players.....off the field....good or bad....accomplishes this.

The NFL has used domestic violence and all of the hysteria that surrounds it....to attract a segment of society that does not give a damn about football. And it does not stop there. The "patriotic" NFL used to have the players in the lockeroom while the national anthem was being sung...now...because they were compensated I might add...the players are on the field during the singing of the national anthem...and trust...the NFL has enjoyed the visibility a particulars players stance on the national anthem has brought them.

I fear one day the NFL is going to require players to pray...and players that don't believe in prayer will be offered up for sacrifice in the court of public opinion.

Note: This in no way expresses my views on DV, the national anthem or prayer.

 

[MeTed]

Somebody did deflate the balls. It didn't seem like they had proof of who, but somebody definitey deflated the balls.

It was actually good for Pats fans that Goodell accused Brady; otherwise, the other owners would have insisted on MAJOR ramifications to the team as in SMU death penalty major.

Many believe Goodell intentionally botched things to allow Brady to win in court.

Leaks from NFL Headquarter indicate Goodell didn't want to appeal the original decision that over-turned the suspension but the other owners insisted.

The Pats got an extra year to prepare for Brady to miss 4 games, IIRC.

Shouldn't the Brady suspension either have been zero games OR waaaay more than 4 games?

Deflating balls interferes with the fabric and competitive balance of the game. Off-field transgressions do not.

Right. However, it doesn't change the point made by the OP, which is, the NFL is predisposed to a particular outcome then make the facts fit around it. All decisions should hold up to scrutiny and in many cases they do not. That's the problem the NFL & NFLPA need to deal with during the next CBA negotiation. IMO they have a good framework in place but they may need an independent body involved in the investigation/appeal process and they may need to reconsider the burden of proof being used.

 

[Proximo]

People say it was sent to the league before the suspension.

How could the NFL not have known about it.

The first thing an investigator would determine is if there was a camera where this happened. The Hotel would not withhold it from authorities.

Beat me to it.

It's absolutely, completely absurd that the video footage existed and they act like they didn't have access to it or knowledge about it. Just ridiculous.