This is the deal with Goodell

[Daillest88]

Patriots fan here, scarred veteran of Deflategate. Sorry about Elliott, another fiasco. Justice is not Goodell's goal. His kangaroo court is predisposed to finding guilt, to please the press and/or other owners. Once they find any evidence whatsoever of a misdeed, no matter how weak, it all quickly turns from an inquiry into an all out prosecution. They want you to believe they're an impartial judge, and will lie & mislead to the moon about that, but Roger is just a rabid DA. They exaggerate the negatives, hide/omit any evidence that's in the player's favor, and shamelessly use the press to further their case. Their process is fundamentally unfair, and there is no judge in their model.

Hey did you post this on Facebook somewhere? Lol.. but on topic yea that's exactly how it seems, his attorney said the same thing basically.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Beat me to it.

It's absolutely, completely absurd that the video footage existed and they act like they didn't have access to it or knowledge about it. Just ridiculous.

Didn't believe Goodell then and I don't believe him now. He knew of that footage. Should have been fired right then. Instead you have a man that is determined to make up for it by handing out his brand of justice on a whim no matter what.

 

[haleyrules]

I ingested reams of info back when all of that was going on.

The pressure difference was more than it would be just from temp changes or atmospheric conditions.

They even checked balls in real games at some point later and none were that low on pressure.

The Colts balls were checked and they had basically not lost any pressure.

There were people claiming science showed it was impossible but I have a background in science and engineering and there was a lot of fake science being bandied about.

The Patriots have cheated multiple times.

Claiming the Patriots don't cheat is like claiming the Cowboys players never get in trouble.

True. But every team looks for the edge and every team cheats when they can get away with it. This is not something new or unique to any particular club. It was really Goodells excessive fixation with it that was harmful to the entire league. What was the real point? Justice or an effort to stop the Patriots from winning another SB??

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

True. But every team looks for the edge and every team cheats when they can get away with it. This is not something new or unique to any particular club. It was really Goodells excessive fixation with it that was harmful to the entire league. What was the real point? Justice or an effort to stop the Patriots from winning another SB??

He kept going on and on about it. Even some of us that thought Brady was guilty were getting tired of it. He gets fixated on something and he won't let it go.

 

[haleyrules]

He kept going on and on about it. Even some of us that thought Brady was guilty were getting tired of it. He gets fixated on something and he won't let it go.

Yep. Brady had his hand in this. But, how important was the issue? Certainly not great enough for all the terrible publicity and harm it caused. Like everything, there was a bigger agenda behind it. Goodell survived that fiasco and for whatever reason he will continue to survive inspite of his horrible mismanagement of his role. He always amazes me with his dumbfounding decisions.

 

[haleyrules]

He kept going on and on about it. Even some of us that thought Brady was guilty were getting tired of it. He gets fixated on something and he won't let it go.

I mean if the league was that concerned about ball inflation, they could check that before every game!!

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

I mean if the league was that concerned about ball inflation, they could check that before every game!!

I think my biggest problem with Brady was how conceded he was after this all came out. The guy is a great QB, probably the best one in my lifetime and he didn't have to do it because he is that great. But yea Goodell took it too far. We watch sports to be entertained and it seems like every year all we talk about is some stupid decision the Commish makes. I think he's the worse Commissioner I've ever seen in my lifetime. Most of the time I don't pay attention to Commissioners but the guy is always front and center and it should be the game that is.

 

[haleyrules]

I think my biggest problem with Brady was how conceded he was after this all came out. The guy is a great QB, probably the best one in my lifetime and he didn't have to do it because he is that great. But yea Goodell took it too far. We watch sports to be entertained and it seems like every year all we talk about is some stupid decision the Commish makes. I think he's the worse Commissioner I've ever seen in my lifetime. Most of the time I don't pay attention to Commissioners but the guy is always front and center and it should be the game that is.

Amen. Exactly. I am so sick of looking at this guy.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Goodell had texts of McNally and Jastremski discussing deflating footballs for 'Tom' and Tom was going to pay them money to do so. There is no doubt in my mind that 'Tom' was Tom Brady.

Where Brady got suspended was he had a phone that the investigators wanted to see with Brady and his lawyers present to look at the texts. Tom heard about this and literally destroyed his phone on purpose so the investigators couldn't see it.

The footballs were deflated. They were not at least 12.5 PSI. While I agree that nature would reduce the PSI naturally, according to all of the scientists the footballs should have deflated by 1.0 PSI. The footballs were at an average of 11.33 PSI. The claim of the scientists is that there is some margin for error and that 11.33 PSI falls within that margin for error.

The problem is that nobody said you could use the average to prove Brady's innocence. If he deflated ONE football...he cheated. And there were at least 4 footballs that were well below the projected PSI with the margin for error.

Where Goodell screwed up is that he simply needed to properly calibrate the gauges and then record the footballs PSI prior to the game. All they did was check to see if the PSI was within the 12.5 to 13.5 PSI range. So, a football that may have been measured at 11.5 PSI at halftime may have started off at 13.3 PSI prior to the game. We won't know because Goodell and Wells overlooked this.

But given that there were footballs below that 11.5 PSI with the margin for error, the texts showing that they planned to deflate footballs in the past and that Tom was paying them to do so and the video of McNally sneaking off to the bathroom with the footballs which breaks the protocol and Brady destroying his phone on purpose to thwart an investigation...Patriots have little to argue about other than Goodell and Wells could have made this a lot easier on themselves if they had some sort of competence.

The thing that scares me is the Saints ordeal. They railroaded the team with no evidence that the players or coaches were taking Gregg Williams seriously, that anybody picked up any money or that they played dirty in any of the games.

Goodell may have bitten off more than he can chew. EE could easily argue that there was racism involved as Josh Brown, a white kicker who brutally beat his wife and fully admitted to it...got a 1 game suspension. He could also argue race given that the league is taking a white woman's word who was *proven* to have lied about being assaulted by EE over a black man's word. Combine that with Jerry's power and how he has treated the Brady, Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, the Saints, the StarCaps, SpyGate, etc. situations...the patience is running thin with the owners, players and the fans.

Goodell will make out fine in the end given the ridiculous amount of money he's been paid over the years. But he could be fired as commissioner and enough owners have enough power to revoke his membership from Augusta National which will really sting for him since he covets it so much.
YR

If you want to be scared or alarmed about something, in Deflategate there was no crime or underlying event AT ALL, yet look what happened. Nobody did a freakin' thing. It was the crybaby Colts getting their butts whooped who started it, then Mike Kensil led the investigation, who's from the Jets and detests everything about the Patriots. Then the league leaks completely false readings to Chris Mortenson to stir the pot. The difference in psi was due to 2 different freaking gauges being used pre-game vs halftime. It was a clown show. Then relying on a text exchange that occurred 8 months before that game. Then making a huge deal out of Brady recycling his phone after telling him they didn't need the phone.

Yet Goodell got people all over the world to buy it hook, line and sinker. That should be what alarms you. As he's shown with Elliott, he has no interest in truth or justice, it's all about some PR agenda. He'd been itching for a DV case to show the Nancy Armour's of the world that he now has it "right". 2 years ago he was itching to get NE to settle old scores for a bunch of owners that were sick of NE. That's how he rolls.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

If you want to be scared or alarmed about something, in Deflategate there was no crime or underlying event AT ALL, yet look what happened. Nobody did a freakin' thing. It was the crybaby Colts getting their butts whooped who started it,

Incorrect.

The Ravens started it the investigation as they went to the league complaining that one of the footballs that they had received in a turnover was extremely soft.

That prompted the investigation in the Colts game.

then Mike Kensil led the investigation, who's from the Jets and detests everything about the Patriots. Then the league leaks completely false readings to Chris Mortenson to stir the pot. The difference in psi was due to 2 different freaking gauges being used pre-game vs halftime. It was a clown show. Then relying on a text exchange that occurred 8 months before that game. Then making a huge deal out of Brady recycling his phone after telling him they didn't need the phone.

Yet Goodell got people all over the world to buy it hook, line and sinker. That should be what alarms you. As he's shown with Elliott, he has no interest in truth or justice, it's all about some PR agenda. He'd been itching for a DV case to show the Nancy Armour's of the world that he now has it "right". 2 years ago he was itching to get NE to settle old scores for a bunch of owners that were sick of NE. That's how he rolls.

I fully agree that the investigation was poorly done and they could have made things much easier for them by not having people like Kensil involved as well as properly calibrating the gauges and actually recording each ball prior to the game. But Brady and the scientists cannot explain the texts from McNally and Jastremski that talk about deflating footballs for payment from 'Tom.' And they can't explain away 4 footballs that are well below the projected PSI from every scientist projections using the Ideal Gas Law and simulating the process.

As far as Mortenson goes, I don't know why anybody would care except for Mortenson because he has egg on his face. The NFL showed the investigation to the public for free. Maybe Mortenson got it wrong, but in the end the NFL showed that Mortenson's report was incorrect. All the Mortenson complaint was is the Patriots and Brady trying to find anything that was incorrect despite it having nothing to do with whether or not Brady had the footballs deflated. It's an old lawyer trick.




YR

 

[Ranched]

Maybe when Goodell has a spat with Mara and it ends up as a DV incident he'll suspend himself.

Ha. Wishful thinking Woody!

 

[xwalker]

True. But every team looks for the edge and every team cheats when they can get away with it. This is not something new or unique to any particular club. It was really Goodells excessive fixation with it that was harmful to the entire league. What was the real point? Justice or an effort to stop the Patriots from winning another SB??

Fake fixation.

 

[xwalker]

Right. However, it doesn't change the point made by the OP, which is, the NFL is predisposed to a particular outcome then make the facts fit around it. All decisions should hold up to scrutiny and in many cases they do not. That's the problem the NFL & NFLPA need to deal with during the next CBA negotiation. IMO they have a good framework in place but they may need an independent body involved in the investigation/appeal process and they may need to reconsider the burden of proof being used.

Independent is the key.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Incorrect.

The Ravens started it the investigation as they went to the league complaining that one of the footballs that they had received in a turnover was extremely soft.

That prompted the investigation in the Colts game.

I fully agree that the investigation was poorly done and they could have made things much easier for them by not having people like Kensil involved as well as properly calibrating the gauges and actually recording each ball prior to the game. But Brady and the scientists cannot explain the texts from McNally and Jastremski that talk about deflating footballs for payment from 'Tom.' And they can't explain away 4 footballs that are well below the projected PSI from every scientist projections using the Ideal Gas Law and simulating the process.

As far as Mortenson goes, I don't know why anybody would care except for Mortenson because he has egg on his face. The NFL showed the investigation to the public for free. Maybe Mortenson got it wrong, but in the end the NFL showed that Mortenson's report was incorrect. All the Mortenson complaint was is the Patriots and Brady trying to find anything that was incorrect despite it having nothing to do with whether or not Brady had the footballs deflated. It's an old lawyer trick.

YR

It was very cold in that Ravens game the week before, so little wonder. Brady led NE back from 14 points twice in that game, one of his greatest performances ever. Harbaugh's another coach that's always making excuses.

The texts you refer to occurred 8 months before the game, in the middle of the previous summer/offseason. They had nothing to do with the AFCC game that year. McNally's job description was to inflate/deflate the footballs as needed to get them between 12.5 and 13.5, bring them to the refs, then to the field. So if the other guy calls him the inflator or deflator while texting **** back & forth, that's not exactly proof of much, is it. And there were no texts specifically stating getting paid for deflating footballs. This was all Wells trying to weave a conspiracy together cause he had nothing else.

Mortenson's reporting the erroneous numbers turned the whole case into a huge fireball, as those numbers would have been proof somebody tampered. The NFL let that false report sit out there for months with no correction. When they finally released the actual readings months later in the Wells report, they buried them in an appendix because instead of the leak of 2 full psi's off, the balls were more like .2 to .5; Mike Florio, Dan Wentzel, and the Washington Post were all over this in case you missed it.

The more you look into Deflategate, the more you'll find it was a big gigantic lie.

 

[ghst187]

If Goodell wasn't a pc dirtbag he would suspend lynch for his disrespect of the anthem. You are welcome to express your opinion just not while representing the NFL. I hope the fans backlash this and force Goodell to address it because it's an issue he will lose no matter what. He will ignore and face ire and lost revenue from fans or address it and be branded a racist.
But if you can get suspended bc some extortionist woman lies about you and the NFL says it's bad for its image... then disrespecting the anthem of the country that allows you the privilege of being a millionaire for playing a game is also bad for the leagues image.

 

[Bleedblue1111]

I have to ask though, who even cared about this Zeke case? It was never in the news until the NFL creeped in and said there may be a suspension. Hardly any fans discussed it, it was dropped and out of mind.

Now with this long investigation and suspension - it's everywhere. It's like Goodell wants to bring negative press. It's just really weird to me.

I'm beginning to believe it's to drum up free publicity. Doesn't matter what team/player they need to very publicly tear down, as long as people everywhere are talking about the NFL. Ever since Goodell has been in charge, it has been this way.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

It was very cold in that Ravens game the week before, so little wonder. Brady led NE back from 14 points twice in that game, one of his greatest performances ever. Harbaugh's another coach that's always making excuses.

The football in the Ravens game was below the projected PSI. That's why the NFL setup the investigation the following week against the Colts. Winning a game doesn't mean that you didn't cheat. Just like if you lose...it still doesn't mean that you didn't cheat.

The texts you refer to occurred 8 months before the game, in the middle of the previous summer/offseason. They had nothing to do with the AFCC game that year. McNally's job description was to inflate/deflate the footballs as needed to get them between 12.5 and 13.5, bring them to the refs, then to the field. So if the other guy calls him the inflator or deflator while texting **** back & forth, that's not exactly proof of much, is it. And there were no texts specifically stating getting paid for deflating footballs. This was all Wells trying to weave a conspiracy together cause he had nothing else.

The texts over the 8 month period show a pattern of behavior of deflating footballs.

The texts discussed Brady requesting McNally to deflate the footballs for payment. If McNally's job is to legally keep the footballs at 12.5 PSI, you wouldn't pay him extra to do so. You only make a payment if he has to do something illegal. When Brady was late paying McNally, McNally was furious and stated that if he didn't get payment soon enough, he would over-inflate them to the size of a rugby ball (of course he was exagerrating). Jastremski later on made sure that McNally was happy with the payment that he received from Tom.

Brady obviously paid McNally to deflate footballs during some time in the 8 month period and given the footballs in the Ravens game and Colts game were deflated, it's reasonable to presume that he had deflated those footballs as well. Particularly since the cameras show McNally sneaking off to the bathroom with the footballs in tow which breaks protocol and common sense.

Mortenson's reporting the erroneous numbers turned the whole case into a huge fireball, as those numbers would have been proof somebody tampered. The NFL let that false report sit out there for months with no correction. When they finally released the actual readings months later in the Wells report, they buried them in an appendix because instead of the leak of 2 full psi's off, the balls were more like .2 to .5; Mike Florio, Dan Wentzel, and the Washington Post were all over this in case you missed it.

The more you look into Deflategate, the more you'll find it was a big gigantic lie.

Complaining about Mortensen's erroneous report is a diversionary tactic by the the Patriots PR to garner favor. You find an error and you fully exploit that error even though that error has nothing to do with the case at hand. This gets supporters to point out that because the opponent is wrong in this instance, then you challenge their credibility on everything else.

In reality, Mortensen's report is a moot point. His report didn't influence the decision maker because the decision maker is the NFL themselves.

Again, the footballs had an average PSI of 11.33 when the projected PSI was supposed to be at 11.5 PSI (given *if* the footballs were at 12.5 PSI to start with). But, the average has nothing to do with the case at hand because if he cheated on 1 football...he cheated. And there were 4 footballs well below that projected 11.5 PSI

In fact, one of the footballs was measured at 10.5 PSI and perhaps Mortensen errored and thought they said the average was 2.0 PSI off.

Either way, Mortensen's report reflects badly on Mortensen...not on the investigation.

The issue with Goodell and Wells is that they did a haphazard job of investigating the matter. They never recorded the PSI of every ball prior to the game, they just had it determined that each ball was within the 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. Thus, a football could have been at 11.7 PSI at halftime, but if it started at 13.4 PSI prior to the game that is significantly below the projections based on the Ideal Gas Law and testing done by various scientists.

Furthermore, they should have recorded the PSI of each football and try to find an identifying marker for each football. That way they could show that Football #1 started at say...12.9 PSI prior to the game and then deflated to 11.1 PSI at halftime while football #2 started at 12.5 PSI before the game and came in at 10.7 PSI at halftime.

I certainly don't believe the assumption from Brady backers that each football started at precisely 12.5 PSI before the game and nor do I believe that McNally was incredibly precise with his deflating methods. He likely deflated them the best he could without making it too obvious. So he may have gotten a ball at 13.1 PSI, deflated it to 12.4 PSI and then took another ball at say 12.7 PSI and deflated that to 12.5 PSI and then took a ball at 13.4 PSI and deflated that more, all the way down to 11.7 PSI.

It's a tough call if you're just basing it on the football PSI's alone because the investigation was so haphazardly done, but when you combine them with the texts the only real conclusion is that Brady did have the footballs deflated. It's just that Goodell is so incompetent that he cannot even hire quality people to put forth a quality investigation to protect everybody, including the NFL, who is involved.




YR

 

[40yrpatsfan]

The football in the Ravens game was below the projected PSI. That's why the NFL setup the investigation the following week against the Colts. Winning a game doesn't mean that you didn't cheat. Just like if you lose...it still doesn't mean that you didn't cheat.

The texts over the 8 month period show a pattern of behavior of deflating footballs.

The texts discussed Brady requesting McNally to deflate the footballs for payment. If McNally's job is to legally keep the footballs at 12.5 PSI, you wouldn't pay him extra to do so. You only make a payment if he has to do something illegal. When Brady was late paying McNally, McNally was furious and stated that if he didn't get payment soon enough, he would over-inflate them to the size of a rugby ball (of course he was exagerrating). Jastremski later on made sure that McNally was happy with the payment that he received from Tom.

Brady obviously paid McNally to deflate footballs during some time in the 8 month period and given the footballs in the Ravens game and Colts game were deflated, it's reasonable to presume that he had deflated those footballs as well. Particularly since the cameras show McNally sneaking off to the bathroom with the footballs in tow which breaks protocol and common sense.

Complaining about Mortensen's erroneous report is a diversionary tactic by the the Patriots PR to garner favor. You find an error and you fully exploit that error even though that error has nothing to do with the case at hand. This gets supporters to point out that because the opponent is wrong in this instance, then you challenge their credibility on everything else.

In reality, Mortensen's report is a moot point. His report didn't influence the decision maker because the decision maker is the NFL themselves.

Again, the footballs had an average PSI of 11.33 when the projected PSI was supposed to be at 11.5 PSI (given *if* the footballs were at 12.5 PSI to start with). But, the average has nothing to do with the case at hand because if he cheated on 1 football...he cheated. And there were 4 footballs well below that projected 11.5 PSI

In fact, one of the footballs was measured at 10.5 PSI and perhaps Mortensen errored and thought they said the average was 2.0 PSI off.

Either way, Mortensen's report reflects badly on Mortensen...not on the investigation.

The issue with Goodell and Wells is that they did a haphazard job of investigating the matter. They never recorded the PSI of every ball prior to the game, they just had it determined that each ball was within the 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. Thus, a football could have been at 11.7 PSI at halftime, but if it started at 13.4 PSI prior to the game that is significantly below the projections based on the Ideal Gas Law and testing done by various scientists.

Furthermore, they should have recorded the PSI of each football and try to find an identifying marker for each football. That way they could show that Football #1 started at say...12.9 PSI prior to the game and then deflated to 11.1 PSI at halftime while football #2 started at 12.5 PSI before the game and came in at 10.7 PSI at halftime.

I certainly don't believe the assumption from Brady backers that each football started at precisely 12.5 PSI before the game and nor do I believe that McNally was incredibly precise with his deflating methods. He likely deflated them the best he could without making it too obvious. So he may have gotten a ball at 13.1 PSI, deflated it to 12.4 PSI and then took another ball at say 12.7 PSI and deflated that to 12.5 PSI and then took a ball at 13.4 PSI and deflated that more, all the way down to 11.7 PSI.

It's a tough call if you're just basing it on the football PSI's alone because the investigation was so haphazardly done, but when you combine them with the texts the only real conclusion is that Brady did have the footballs deflated. It's just that Goodell is so incompetent that he cannot even hire quality people to put forth a quality investigation to protect everybody, including the NFL, who is involved.

YR

So essentially you're basing it on the texts. You agree that the Goodell and Wells did a haphazard job investigating, recording the PSI's, etc., which is why those readings were unreliable to base any case on. But without rock solid readings to support their accusation, there is no case, period. It doesn't matter what Dufus texted to Woofus 8 months prior to the game in question - there was no core evidence of wrongdoing that night.

You're right that Mortenson didn't affect the ruling itself, but you miss the point that because the league had no facts to go with, they used the media and social media to manufacture a case in the court of public opinion. The world decided Brady was guilty of something big the day of Mortenson's tweet, which was all lies & distortions directly from the investigative team of the NFL.

If Elliott's case were to ever follow a similar path of appeals, courts, etc., you'll see that there's nothing too low for Goodell's office.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

So essentially you're basing it on the texts. You agree that the Goodell and Wells did a haphazard job investigating, recording the PSI's, etc., which is why those readings were unreliable to base any case on. But without rock solid readings to support their accusation, there is no case, period. It doesn't matter what Dufus texted to Woofus 8 months prior to the game in question - there was no core evidence of wrongdoing that night.

You're right that Mortenson didn't affect the ruling itself, but you miss the point that because the league had no facts to go with, they used the media and social media to manufacture a case in the court of public opinion. The world decided Brady was guilty of something big the day of Mortenson's tweet, which was all lies & distortions directly from the investigative team of the NFL.

If Elliott's case were to ever follow a similar path of appeals, courts, etc., you'll see that there's nothing too low for Goodell's office.

I'm basing it on:

1. What the PSI of the footballs was at halftime.

2. The texts of McNally and Jastremski showing over an 8 month period that they were deflating footballs at the request of Brady for payment.

3. The video of McNally sneaking off to the bathroom with the footballs. This showed how he did it and how he had time to do it as well as him breaking the protocol (and common sense) with dealing with the footballs.

It was a haphazardly done investigation because when you are accusing somebody of something like cheating and that person wields a lot of power and fame, they are going to hire people to try and poke any hole they can in the investigation.

I don't know if it was something that Goodell didn't take seriously or was just flat out incompetency, but as I mentioned the best way to do it was to record what the footballs PSI were at prior to the game instead of just checking to see if they were within 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. This would further solidify the case because when you had footballs at greater than 11.5 PSI...there was potentially a good explanation for it if they were greater than 13.0 PSI to start off with.

But, not one single scientist or any of Tom Brady's obsequious lapdogs can explain the 10.5, 10.7 and 10.8 PSI readings of the footballs. We all agree that the footballs had to be at least 12.5 PSI prior to the investigation and all of the scientists and their projections and simulations have the footballs dropping 1.0 PSI. But, if he had 1 football deflated...he cheated. It has nothing to do with the average PSI of the footballs.

When I combine the texts, the PSI readings and the video of McNally sneaking off to the bathroom, it is beyond a reasonable doubt to me that Brady had those footballs deflated.

Bring Mortensen's erroneous report in is just a smokescreen that has nothing to do with the case on hand.






YR

 

[Miller]

Somebody did deflate the balls. It didn't seem like they had proof of who, but somebody definitey deflated the balls.

It was actually good for Pats fans that Goodell accused Brady; otherwise, the other owners would have insisted on MAJOR ramifications to the team as in SMU death penalty major.

Many believe Goodell intentionally botched things to allow Brady to win in court.

Leaks from NFL Headquarter indicate Goodell didn't want to appeal the original decision that over-turned the suspension but the other owners insisted.

The Pats got an extra year to prepare for Brady to miss 4 games, IIRC.

Shouldn't the Brady suspension either have been zero games OR waaaay more than 4 games?

Deflating balls interferes with the fabric and competitive balance of the game. Off-field transgressions do not.

There actually were many top scientific sources that said they deflation could have been natural but RG ignored it...just as OP stated. Just saying...