This is why the Cowboys keep drafting TE's

Roadtrip635

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In today's NFL, 2nd round picks are expected to be playing and contributing right away, barring injury. I am not saying they should be playing at a pro bowl level, but should be playing meaningful minutes. Escobar is not playing meaningful minutes, he was not ready to be picked at that draft position. While drafting by need can lead to some issues, this team had so many needs that it wouldn't have been an issue. This team needed another O Lineman, DL, Safety, LB and there were quality still available at that pick that would have been seeing quality playing time today. Escobar showed some talent in college but not enough to warrant his position. I am very sure that there will be another TE in the next year or two that we can draft that then with at least the skillset, if not more, than Escobar. If he truly had 2nd round talent, then he would be playing more snaps. One of the last things this team needed was a 3rd string TE and that's saying a lot considering how many needs this team has.

This coaching staff has shown the inability to effectively execute 2 TE sets, which makes the Escobar pick that much more puzzling.
 

Future

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Marty B isn't good, and he was given plenty of chances here. Too many, if you ask me. He's had some good grabs elsewhere but he isn't irreplaceable 'talent'.

what chances on the field was he given?

If he's not an RKG, then that on the coaching staff because he's not a bad guy, even if he's a little goofy
 

jobberone

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It still amazes me that people don't yet understand the move or hybrid TE. Escobar wasn't drafted as a blocker. He may never be a blocker. I do think their needs to be one guy at least who can play the role of F back. I don't even care if they use a LB for it. I don't know why people are so upset about Hanna and Escobar not blocking well anyway. Witten isn't very good at it either although he's better than the other two. I haven't see the other TE enough to comment. We use another tackle in heavy or strong formations anyway.

Maybe they should name the hybrid TEs hybrid receivers???
 

Stash

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The issue is not taking TEs in the second round. The issue is doing so and then not freaking use them. Both Fasano and Bennett proved to be good players after they left, and Esco hasn't even gotten a chance.

This is exactly and positively the truth.

It was never the players, it was not using them effectively once we did.

And we're doing the same thing on our third try.

Any look no further than the Saints team that just cleaned our clocks as showing that you can have both.

They do.
 

jobberone

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How many teams in the league have a TE like Witten and a move TE like Gronk or Graham?
 

Roadtrip635

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This is exactly and positively the truth.

It was never the players, it was not using them effectively once we did.

And we're doing the same thing on our third try.

Any look no further than the Saints team that just cleaned our clocks as showing that you can have both.

They do.

Don't forget Phillips. He showed some ability when he was here and I was hoping to see him utilized more in the passing game. This staff just hasn't shown the ability to utilize two TE sets effectively.

If they can't figure out how to use these guys, quit wasting high round picks on them. I'd rather see them reinforce the trenches, use it on OL and DL. Those are always positions that we need depth.
 

Stash

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Don't forget Phillips. He showed some ability when he was here and I was hoping to see him utilized more in the passing game. This staff just hasn't shown the ability to utilize two TE sets effectively.

If they can't figure out how to use these guys, quit wasting high round picks on them. I'd rather see them reinforce the trenches, use it on OL and DL. Those are always positions that we need depth.

Couldn't agree more.
 

BigStar

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It still amazes me that people don't yet understand the move or hybrid TE. Escobar wasn't drafted as a blocker. He may never be a blocker. I do think their needs to be one guy at least who can play the role of F back. I don't even care if they use a LB for it. I don't know why people are so upset about Hanna and Escobar not blocking well anyway. Witten isn't very good at it either although he's better than the other two. I haven't see the other TE enough to comment. We use another tackle in heavy or strong formations anyway.

Maybe they should name the hybrid TEs hybrid receivers???


Escobar is hardly an athletic freak by any stretch in fact he is the prototype old school TE with school boy strength: SLOW, Tall, Lanky....but slightly fluid route running that creates separation and solid hands. Not exactly the definition of the "hybrid" TE that us fans are so unaware of...
 

BigStar

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It's funny cause thats what allot of people complain about with the Cowboys but the people that have left that you hear complaints about the most are just average players. Fasano, Bennett, Canty are the ones I usually see people complain about being let go but they didn't go on to become super stars. This is where free agency hurts because you can't afford to match what another team is willing to pay and in Bennett's case the Cowboys did match what he was offered by the Giants and he wanted that starter title, can't blame him or the Cowboys. The giant's give Canty a 42 million dollar contract, obviously over paid but thats free agency if you want to fill a hole you overpay.


I believe she was also speaking of our coaching staff's inability to get quality playing time and production from our young draftees and that is a MUST to remain consistently competitive as she mentioned with other successful organizations (Pats, GB (not Rodgers), SEA, SF). We are not adapting to the new strategy of other successful teams because we don't get the same results from our young players and early draft picks as a result of poor coaching, poor scouting, etc. It is of course essential to have some established veteran talent as we previously had with Witten, Ware, Romo, but younger players weren't being simultaneously developed to contribute. What is the point of having a 2nd round TE to only throw to Witten for a 5 yard out anyway? Coaching, player development, and adapting schemes around specific talent is what is sorely missing and why average players are deemed adequate and superstars are asked to win it all (Romo mainly)
 

Roadtrip635

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It still amazes me that people don't yet understand the move or hybrid TE. Escobar wasn't drafted as a blocker. He may never be a blocker. I do think their needs to be one guy at least who can play the role of F back. I don't even care if they use a LB for it. I don't know why people are so upset about Hanna and Escobar not blocking well anyway. Witten isn't very good at it either although he's better than the other two. I haven't see the other TE enough to comment. We use another tackle in heavy or strong formations anyway.

Maybe they should name the hybrid TEs hybrid receivers???

I think most people understand the benefit of having a "hybrid" TE. The amazing part is that the coaching staff has still not found a way to utilize two TE sets after years of trying. If Escobar was drafted as a pass catcher, why isn't he out there catching passes? He's actually playing less snaps now than earlier in the season, shouldn't it be the other way around? Does Escobar have 2nd round talent or is it that the staff doesn't know how to use his talent? I find it amazing that we could have used that 2nd round pick for a player that could have been a benefit to the team here and now.
 

Roadtrip635

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I believe she was also speaking of our coaching staff's inability to get quality playing time and production from our young draftees and that is a MUST to remain consistently competitive as she mentioned with other successful organizations (Pats, GB (not Rodgers), SEA, SF). We are not adapting to the new strategy of other successful teams because we don't get the same results from our young players and early draft picks as a result of poor coaching, poor scouting, etc. It is of course essential to have some established veteran talent as we previously had with Witten, Ware, Romo, but younger players weren't being simultaneously developed to contribute. What is the point of having a 2nd round TE to only throw to Witten for a 5 yard out anyway? Coaching, player development, and adapting schemes around specific talent is what is sorely missing and why average players are deemed adequate and superstars are asked to win it all (Romo mainly)

Great Post!
 

Hoofbite

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It still amazes me that people don't yet understand the move or hybrid TE. Escobar wasn't drafted as a blocker. He may never be a blocker. I do think their needs to be one guy at least who can play the role of F back. I don't even care if they use a LB for it. I don't know why people are so upset about Hanna and Escobar not blocking well anyway. Witten isn't very good at it either although he's better than the other two. I haven't see the other TE enough to comment. We use another tackle in heavy or strong formations anyway.

Maybe they should name the hybrid TEs hybrid receivers???

He may not have been drafted to be a blocker but the fact that he can't has undoubtedly relegated him to a handful of snaps per game. Whether or not these receiving TEs block for other teams is largely irrelevant because they need to be able to block for Dallas because Dallas asks them to.

The fact that they are asked to block is probably the reason people are upset that they can't block. They are asked to block but can't. Hannah has 205 snaps from PFF, only 69 of which have come from running routes. If you combine Hannah and Escobar, even with Escobar basically running twice as many routes as he has blocks, the two of them are still blocking on about 55% of the plays. Because they cannot block, any time they aren't running routes they're a liability and likely contributing to this awful running game.

How can you say people don't understand and then follow it up by saying that their blocking doesn't matter when, A) they are asked to block more than they are allowed to run routes, and B) blocking is the sole reason why Escobar hasn't really been on the field? Clearly blocking is important for Dallas.

Going a step further, it's important for all of these hybrid TE because without blocking they'd just be WRs.

Jimmy Graham still blocks 30% of the time. Julius Thomas and Vernon Davis block more than they run routes, 45.8% and 48.6% respectively. Gronkowski blocks about 35% of the time which is the same for Tony Gonzalez. Jordan Cameron blocks a little more at about 38% of the time.

You are right by suggesting that the hybrid TEs are primarily used to catch passes. That doesn't change anything regarding their need to have blocking ability. Even though Escobar wasn't drafted with blocking in mind, he absolutely has to be able to block. First and foremost, the team is going to ask him to block so that in itself is reason enough.

More importantly, if he cannot block it limits the ability for him to create mismatches. If he never blocks, he's a WR and a slow one at that. Teams will play coverage all day on a guy who runs a 4.8 40 yard dash because you aren't going to get beat deep and even their worst coverage corner has the speed to make up ground and try to get a hand on the ball.
 

Hoofbite

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I believe she was also speaking of our coaching staff's inability to get quality playing time and production from our young draftees and that is a MUST to remain consistently competitive as she mentioned with other successful organizations (Pats, GB (not Rodgers), SEA, SF). We are not adapting to the new strategy of other successful teams because we don't get the same results from our young players and early draft picks as a result of poor coaching, poor scouting, etc. It is of course essential to have some established veteran talent as we previously had with Witten, Ware, Romo, but younger players weren't being simultaneously developed to contribute. What is the point of having a 2nd round TE to only throw to Witten for a 5 yard out anyway? Coaching, player development, and adapting schemes around specific talent is what is sorely missing and why average players are deemed adequate and superstars are asked to win it all (Romo mainly)

Well done.
 

perrykemp

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None. But people need to stop saying Bennett is good. He isnt and never has been

I disagree.

Bennett is is track for his 2nd 55+ catch, 600+ yard, 5+ TD season in a row -- in only his 2nd year as a starter. Considered how good of a blocker he is, I'd say he is very good.

You've been spoiled by Witten to the point that if a TE doesn't get 1000 yards he "isn't good".
 

DogFace

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Escobar has better hands than Hanna. That isn't in question.

Not better awareness or smarts. Not coming to the ball in the Denver game was inexcusable and showed his extreme softness. Bad quality in a tight end.
 

Venger

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None. But people need to stop saying Bennett is good. He isnt and never has been

He may not be good, but he is being *productive*, which is something we never got with him. You can fault the player, or you can fault the team. Using logic, it's hard to fault the player when he produces elsewhere but not here.
 

jobberone

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He may not have been drafted to be a blocker but the fact that he can't has undoubtedly relegated him to a handful of snaps per game. Whether or not these receiving TEs block for other teams is largely irrelevant because they need to be able to block for Dallas because Dallas asks them to.

The fact that they are asked to block is probably the reason people are upset that they can't block. They are asked to block but can't. Hannah has 205 snaps from PFF, only 69 of which have come from running routes. If you combine Hannah and Escobar, even with Escobar basically running twice as many routes as he has blocks, the two of them are still blocking on about 55% of the plays. Because they cannot block, any time they aren't running routes they're a liability and likely contributing to this awful running game.

How can you say people don't understand and then follow it up by saying that their blocking doesn't matter when, A) they are asked to block more than they are allowed to run routes, and B) blocking is the sole reason why Escobar hasn't really been on the field? Clearly blocking is important for Dallas.

Going a step further, it's important for all of these hybrid TE because without blocking they'd just be WRs.

Jimmy Graham still blocks 30% of the time. Julius Thomas and Vernon Davis block more than they run routes, 45.8% and 48.6% respectively. Gronkowski blocks about 35% of the time which is the same for Tony Gonzalez. Jordan Cameron blocks a little more at about 38% of the time.

You are right by suggesting that the hybrid TEs are primarily used to catch passes. That doesn't change anything regarding their need to have blocking ability. Even though Escobar wasn't drafted with blocking in mind, he absolutely has to be able to block. First and foremost, the team is going to ask him to block so that in itself is reason enough.

More importantly, if he cannot block it limits the ability for him to create mismatches. If he never blocks, he's a WR and a slow one at that. Teams will play coverage all day on a guy who runs a 4.8 40 yard dash because you aren't going to get beat deep and even their worst coverage corner has the speed to make up ground and try to get a hand on the ball.

WRs are asked to block and some do it well and others so-so. You're just not going to draft these move TEs and get one (very often) who are athletic enough to block inline as well as work like a big tall WR. You people are just looking at the position wrong.

Now where I get upset is not giving the guy enough snaps. I too believe top draft picks need to contribute early. But all don't and in fact far too many are busts.

Expectations are just not reasonable and that's why the vast majority of you guys are upset about the pick. And furthermore many of you (not aimed at you) are the BPA type on draft day. Well they followed their board reasonably well.

Give the guy a chance even though I join you all in being a tad disappointed in his contribution this year. OTOH, I've been disappointed for the last decade plus.
 
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