This Quincy Morgan thing is getting idiotic....

InmanRoshi

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DallasEast said:
Is Price playing that badly for Atlanta? If that were to happen, it would be a good pick up for us.

As long as Glenn and Johnson are healthy, they would be (in Parcells' eyes) #1 and #2, imo. Would Price be content in being the #3 receiver?

They almost released him before camp, and he hasn't did anything this preseason. He's been nicked up and hasn't played much. They already have Michael Jenkins, Dez White and Brian Finneran, and they love Roddy White. Peerless is probably too expensive to keep for a #3 or #4 WR at his current contract.

He's still just 28 years old. He's only 2 years removed from a 95 catch, 1250 yard, 9 TD season with Bledsoe. He's probably not as good as he was that year, and not as bad as he's been with the Falcons. Probably somewhere in between, which if fine if you're talking about a #3 or #4 WR.
 

wileedog

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Rack said:
It's simple, if you're a WR that can't catch, you are absolutely USELESS. Especially if you don't play special teams.

Again, Morgan has a 900+ yard season.

If he simply "couldnt catch", how do you think he accomplished that?

Bottom line is his problems are way overblown.

That's not to say that his catching ability isn't a problem. It surely is.

BUt Copper or Crowder are far closer to Randall Williams than Morgan is. And no one is going to be cutting a reciever in the coming weeks who is going to be any better.

I'm not propping up Morgan as Jerry Rice here, I'm saying with Glenn's inability to stay healthy he's simply a necessity to roll the dice on and hope he can hang on to a few balls. Because there is no one else with his talent or phyical attributes coming available anytime soon.

BTW, Antonio was tied for 5th in the league for dropped balls last year, for anyone wanting to start that debate.....
 

Rack

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Again, Morgan has a 900+ yard season.


And? Jerry Rice has like 40 million career recieving yards, and I wouldn't want him as the 3rd, 4th or 5th WR on the team. Who cares what he did 2 or 3 years ago? That doesn't make him a good WR right NOW.


If he simply "couldnt catch", how do you think he accomplished that?


See above. And have you seen him play at all? He dropped another TD pass today. WIde open, right in the hands... dropped. Yeah, that's what this team needs. :rolleyes:


Bottom line is his problems are way overblown.


YOu've got to be kidding me. He's dropped a pass (at least 1) in every preseason game. That's overblown? Gimme a break. My best friend is a browns fan and he told me when we traded for him that he's gonna drop a lot of passes. It IS possible to gain 900 yards recieving and drop a lot of passes at the same time. The point is you want a RELIABLE WR out there.

Great, he'll catch a 50 yarder every now and then, but he'll drop a few passes on third down as well. No thanks.


BUt Copper or Crowder are far closer to Randall Williams than Morgan is. And no one is going to be cutting a reciever in the coming weeks who is going to be any better.


Actually Copper can catch better then Morgan, and he's a good special teams player. I'll take him over Morgan, that's for sure.

And for Crowder, he's just as fast (or faster) then Morgan, and he's a good special teams player. He's more useful as the #5 WR then Morgan as the #4 WR.


I'm not propping up Morgan as Jerry Rice here, I'm saying with Glenn's inability to stay healthy he's simply a necessity to roll the dice on and hope he can hang on to a few balls. Because there is no one else with his talent or phyical attributes coming available anytime soon.


How well he gets open and separates from DBs is irrelevant if he can't catch the ball. SUre he'll make a big play every now and then, but you need CONSISTENCY at the position. Morgan couldn't do anything to replace Glenn last year (even when healthy) and he wouldn't be able to do anything to help replace GLenn this year either. He's PROVEN in training camp and games that he can't consistently catch the ball. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would want a WR on the team that can't catch the ball (consistently) and doesn't play special teams. As the #4 WR, he'd only get about 5 snaps a game. I'd rather use that spot on a good special teams player that has the POTENTIAL to contribute on offense.


TW, Antonio was tied for 5th in the league for dropped balls last year, for anyone wanting to start that debate.....


And? I'm glad he's gone. He dropped way too many balls and was a cancer to the team. In football you have to have a certain degree of Chemistry to be successful, and Bryant KILLS chemistry. So he'll make a big play every now and then, but it won't offset the drops and the temper tantrums.
 

silverbear

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Badattitude said:
The Truth Stings sometimes ...like peroxide in an open wound.....but that's what I do...

Ac-cen-tuate the negative... e-lim-inate the positive...

That's the theme song for our BA...

Oh, and peroxide doesn't really sting in an open wound... certainly, not like iodine would...
 

Rack

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silverbear said:
Ac-cen-tuate the negative... e-lim-inate the positive...

That's the theme song for our BA...

Oh, and peroxide doesn't really sting in an open wound... certainly, not like iodine would...


Exactly. I've never been stung by peroxide. It bubbles up real nice, but doesn't "Sting".


Rubbing alcohol on the other hand...
 

silverbear

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Not to start anything here (LOL), but really long-time Cowboys fans remember how Bob Hayes used to royally piss us off by dropping passes... he'd be wide open deep, nobody in sight, the pass would hit him in the hands, and... Meredith's stats would have been MUCH better but for Bobby's stone hands... but good ol' Dandy Don, he'd just shrug off the drops, and look for him deep again...

My point being, if you catch enough passes, a team can learn to live with a receiver who drops the ball too often... now, the question is, can Morgan catch enough passes to justify his place on the team??
 

silverbear

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Rack said:
Exactly. I've never been stung by peroxide. It bubbles up real nice, but doesn't "Sting".


Rubbing alcohol on the other hand...

Or salt... I think of BA as more the salt type... :eek:

I also find Dave Bair to be way too negative, but his negativity has a Parcells-esque feel to it... I think he'd make a good coach, LOL...
 

wileedog

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Rack said:
And? Jerry Rice has like 40 million career recieving yards, and I wouldn't want him as the 3rd, 4th or 5th WR on the team. Who cares what he did 2 or 3 years ago? That doesn't make him a good WR right NOW.
LOL, you wouldn't take Jerry Rice if he was 27?

See above. And have you seen him play at all? He dropped another TD pass today. WIde open, right in the hands... dropped. Yeah, that's what this team needs. :rolleyes:
Of course I do.

I also saw him catch a 53 yard bomb from Vinny last year on one of his first plays as a Cowboy.

Oh, and he caught a TD today too. Which is, BTW, exactly what this team needs.

YOu've got to be kidding me. He's dropped a pass (at least 1) in every preseason game. That's overblown? Gimme a break. My best friend is a browns fan and he told me when we traded for him that he's gonna drop a lot of passes. It IS possible to gain 900 yards recieving and drop a lot of passes at the same time. The point is you want a RELIABLE WR out there.
THe point is you want someone who can get open in the first place.

Randal Williams never got a chance to drop 3000 passes because he was never ****** open.

Copper and Crowder are never going to drop as many balls as Quincy MOrgan because they are never going to get open near enough times to even get the ball thrown to them.

There are two sides to the WR equation - get open, catch ball. Morgan can stretch the field, open up the underneath routes for Witten and Key, and yes, occasionally actually catch the damn ball. There is no one else on this roster who can do that as effectively other than Terry Glenn, and its highly unlikely anyone is going to be released from someone else's roster who can.

Sorry, dems da breaks. Lets draft a WR next year so we don't have to do this again.

Great, he'll catch a 50 yarder every now and then, but he'll drop a few passes on third down as well. No thanks.
Um, ok, lets go with a bunch of WRs who dont even get open in the first place.

Much better idea, especially with Drew "Pat Pat Pat" Beldsoe behind center.



Actually Copper can catch better then Morgan, and he's a good special teams player. I'll take him over Morgan, that's for sure.
If Copper can't get open, who gives a snot how well he catches the ball?

Jermaine Copeland was copiously praised for how well he grabbed balls out of the air. Where is he now?

And for Crowder, he's just as fast (or faster) then Morgan, and he's a good special teams player. He's more useful as the #5 WR then Morgan as the #4 WR.
I'm sure defensive coordinators are waking up in cold sweats worrying about how they are going to defend against Crowder, who has a new position every other week.

How well he gets open and separates from DBs is irrelevant if he can't catch the ball. SUre he'll make a big play every now and then, but you need CONSISTENCY at the position. Morgan couldn't do anything to replace Glenn last year (even when healthy) and he wouldn't be able to do anything to help replace GLenn this year either. He's PROVEN in training camp and games that he can't consistently catch the ball. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would want a WR on the team that can't catch the ball (consistently) and doesn't play special teams. As the #4 WR, he'd only get about 5 snaps a game. I'd rather use that spot on a good special teams player that has the POTENTIAL to contribute on offense.
And if Glenn goes down, you'd sure as **** rather have Quincy MOrgan stretching the field, actually managing to hang on to the occasional 50 yard bomb, and otherwise being a much better reciever than the likes of Copper or Crowder will ever be.

IN fact you'd probably be the guy *****ing that our receivers are *** because all Bill cares about is special teams.


And? I'm glad he's gone. He dropped way too many balls and was a cancer to the team. In football you have to have a certain degree of Chemistry to be successful, and Bryant KILLS chemistry. So he'll make a big play every now and then, but it won't offset the drops and the temper tantrums.
Wasn't necessarily directed at you.
 

Rack

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LOL, you wouldn't take Jerry Rice if he was 27?


:rolleyes:


Rice didn't have 40 million recieving yards when he was 27. And what's age got to do with it? He can't catch... his age has nothing to do with that.


Of course I do.

I also saw him catch a 53 yard bomb from Vinny last year on one of his first plays as a Cowboy.

Oh, and he caught a TD today too. Which is, BTW, exactly what this team needs.


So one big play... and how many drops did he have last year?

Sorry, but it doesn't balance out. Especially if he isn't playing special teams to justify his roster spot.


Copper and Crowder are never going to drop as many balls as Quincy MOrgan because they are never going to get open near enough times to even get the ball thrown to them.


You know this for a fact, huh? I bet you would of said the same thing about Crayton last year too.


There are two sides to the WR equation - get open, catch ball. Morgan can stretch the field, open up the underneath routes for Witten and Key, and yes, occasionally actually catch the damn ball.


Speed doesn't automatically stretch the field and open up the underneath stuff. The defense would have to respect your ABILITY to justify sending a safety over to help out. If the defense thinks he'll drop the ball if he's open anyway then they won't send a safety to help out, and it will NOT help open the underneath stuff.


If Copper can't get open, who gives a snot how well he catches the ball?

Jermaine Copeland was copiously praised for how well he grabbed balls out of the air. Where is he now?


Breaking records in the CFL. And why bring up Copeland? We're talking about SPEED WRs. Copeland was far from fast.


I'm sure defensive coordinators are waking up in cold sweats worrying about how they are going to defend against Crowder, who has a new position every other week.


First of all, Crowder has been a WR since mini-camps. He hasn't changed positions since the first mini-camps.

Second of all, Crowder would be our 5th WR. Of course defensive coordinators wouldn't worry about him.

Third of all, one coach that WOULD be worrying about Crowder is the special teams coach. But the special teams coach wouldn't be worried about Morgan. And the Defensive Coordinator wouldn't be worried about Morgan (our #4 WR) either. So at least Crowder would have ONE coach worried.


And if Glenn goes down, you'd sure as **** rather have Quincy MOrgan stretching the field, actually managing to hang on to the occasional 50 yard bomb, and otherwise being a much better reciever than the likes of Copper or Crowder will ever be.

No I wouldn't. What the hell good did Morgan do last year for us when Glenn went down?

And I wouldn't deal in absolutes if I were you, it could come back to bite you in the a**. Copper and Crowder may never be anything as far as a WR goes, but if they can catch then at least they'd be more reliable then Morgan.


IN fact you'd probably be the guy *****ing that our receivers are *** because all Bill cares about is special teams.


I sure as hell wouldn't. Cuz I UNDERSTAND the game a bit better then you. You don't keep a guy on the roster as the #4 WR just cuz he's fast, unless he can contribute in other areas AND catch the freakin' football consistently.



By the way, just a little tidbit for you, Morgan dropped a long TD pass against us last year. Just thought you'd want to know.
 

wileedog

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Rack said:
:rolleyes:


Rice didn't have 40 million recieving yards when he was 27. And what's age got to do with it? He can't catch... his age has nothing to do with that.
The point is you wouldn't want RIce now because of his age.

Morgan had a 900 yard recieving season 2 years ago. Its certainly not because of age that he's declined.

Sorry if that was a bit complicated for you.


So one big play... and how many drops did he have last year?
I dont know, you tell me. How many drops did he have last year?

Sorry, but it doesn't balance out. Especially if he isn't playing special teams to justify his roster spot.
HIs roster spot is justified by backing up Terry Glenn, who rarely plays all 16.

You know this for a fact, huh? I bet you would of said the same thing about Crayton last year too.
*shrug* what exactly has Copper or Crowder done to convince you otherwise?

I mean besides being high round draft picks well regard by the scouts and brimming with NFL potential.

Oh wait....

ANd yes, Crayton falls in the same boat, but he's shown otherwise. Have either of the other two?

Speed doesn't automatically stretch the field and open up the underneath stuff. The defense would have to respect your ABILITY to justify sending a safety over to help out.
Which only proves my point further.

Do you honetly think a DC is going to make adjustments for Crowder?

Morgan has a few meager skins on the wall, Crowder and Copper have nothing. Hands or no, who do you really think a DC is worried about, the 6-1, 215 lb 2nd round draft pick with top NFL speed, or the 7th round or UFA converted WR slop?

Breaking records in the CFL. And why bring up Copeland? We're talking about SPEED WRs. Copeland was far from fast.
We're talking about hands.

Why is the guy with great hands in the CFL, while the guy with speed and size still in the NFL?

Do the math.

First of all, Crowder has been a WR since mini-camps. He hasn't changed positions since the first mini-camps.

Second of all, Crowder would be our 5th WR. Of course defensive coordinators wouldn't worry about him.
If Glenn goes down, this guy is an afterthough in every DC and CBs mind.

ANd rightfully so.

Third of all, one coach that WOULD be worrying about Crowder is the special teams coach. But the special teams coach wouldn't be worried about Morgan. And the Defensive Coordinator wouldn't be worried about Morgan (our #4 WR) either. So at least Crowder would have ONE coach worried.
LOL, Crowder has blocked one punt.

Do you honestly think this guy is someone opposing special teams coaches are scheming against?

I guarantee you an opposing DC is more worried about a 6-1, 215 lb WR with lightning speed, no matter his hands, than a special teams coach is worried about lil ol Crowder.



No I wouldn't. What the hell good did Morgan do last year for us when Glenn went down?
MOrgan was hurt and didn't know the offense. Judging him on last year is hardly fair.

And I wouldn't deal in absolutes if I were you, it could come back to bite you in the a**. Copper and Crowder may never be anything as far as a WR goes, but if they can catch then at least they'd be more reliable then Morgan.
If they can get open, absolutely, so to speak.

I sure as hell wouldn't. Cuz I UNDERSTAND the game a bit better then you. You don't keep a guy on the roster as the #4 WR just cuz he's fast, unless he can contribute in other areas AND catch the freakin' football consistently.
Ooo, we've played the "I know more than you" card.

Well done. That wins a lot of arguments.

By the way, just a little tidbit for you, Morgan dropped a long TD pass against us last year. Just thought you'd want to know.

I bet he was open too after beating our secondary.

Of course Copper and Crowder have beat many an NFL secondary in their careers for obvious touchdowns....
 

Rogerthat12

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DallasEast said:
Can't argue about Morgan's speed. You can't teach speed. You either have it or you don't, but a dependable receiver needs more than speed. He needs to have dependable hands.

If Parcells had the option of--

A: Stretching the field with a suspect receiver

or

B: Having a third possession wideout (besides Johnson & Crayton) to consistently move the chains

--I believe he would go with option B.

Ok..Morgan is back-up to Keyshawn not Glenn..he need not be #3 the fourth slot is ok..Morgan will do for that role ..until next year or someone better is aquired. Morgan has speed and does block well..he just needs superglue..lol
 

Rack

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The point is you wouldn't want RIce now because of his age.

Morgan had a 900 yard recieving season 2 years ago. Its certainly not because of age that he's declined.

Sorry if that was a bit complicated for you.


Two years ago is still two years ago. What is he now? HOrrible that's what.


And you better settle down with insults or I'll take your a** to school, Bucko.


I dont know, you tell me. How many drops did he have last year?

I'll look that up after work. I'm sure you'll be impressed. :rolleyes:


HIs roster spot is justified by backing up Terry Glenn, who rarely plays all 16.


You still don't get it, do you?

I guess it's a little to complicated for you. :rolleyes:


*shrug* what exactly has Copper or Crowder done to convince you otherwise?

I mean besides being high round draft picks well regard by the scouts and brimming with NFL potential.

Oh wait....

ANd yes, Crayton falls in the same boat, but he's shown otherwise. Have either of the other two?


They've shown me the won't consistently drop the ball as often as your boy toy. Oh, and they've also shown me then can do more then sit on the bench waiting for an injury by playing special teams, and playing them well.



Which only proves my point further.

Do you honetly think a DC is going to make adjustments for Crowder?

Morgan has a few meager skins on the wall, Crowder and Copper have nothing. Hands or no, who do you really think a DC is worried about, the 6-1, 215 lb 2nd round draft pick with top NFL speed, or the 7th round or UFA converted WR slop?

lmao!

Do you honestly think a DCoord is gonna make adjustments for someone they know consistently drops passes? ;)

Either way, a DCoord isn't gonna worry about any 4th WRs on ANY team (most of the time) but at least a special teams coordinator would have to account for Crowder and/or Copper.


LOL, Crowder has blocked one punt.

Do you honestly think this guy is someone opposing special teams coaches are scheming against?

I guarantee you an opposing DC is more worried about a 6-1, 215 lb WR with lightning speed, no matter his hands, than a special teams coach is worried about lil ol Crowder.

It's not just blocked punts, Genius. It's special teams play as a WHOLE. :rolleyes:

And I guarantee you no DCoord is gonna be worried about ANYONE's 4th WR. Especially ours, no matter who that ends up being. But, as I've said before you and seem to not be understanding, at least a special teams coordinator would have to account for Copper or Crowder.


MOrgan was hurt and didn't know the offense. Judging him on last year is hardly fair.


Excuses are like a**holes, everybody's got one. Fact is he didn't impress. Make up all the excuses you want, but it doesn't change the truth. Especially since he was already known for dropping passes in Cleveland. What was his excuse there? :rolleyes:

Ooo, we've played the "I know more than you" card.

Well done. That wins a lot of arguments.

It's not a "Card", it's a fact. Anyone reading this "Debate" knows this.

And I'm not wasting my time here to "win" anything, I'm merely trying to help enlighten you a bit about the game of football. A 4th WR that does nothing but sit on the bench waiting for an injury and is inconsistent catching the ball is worthless. I really don't think that's difficult to understand, but apparantly it is for some.


I bet he was open too after beating our secondary.

Of course Copper and Crowder have beat many an NFL secondary in their careers for obvious touchdowns....


Yeah he was pretty open. But a lot of good it did him, huh?
 

Rogerthat12

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silverbear said:
Or salt... I think of BA as more the salt type... :eek:

I also find Dave Bair to be way too negative, but his negativity has a Parcells-esque feel to it... I think he'd make a good coach, LOL...

bingo..the unilateral expose themselves quickly..I noticed the same
 

dougonthebench

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DallasEast said:
By all appearances, our fourth receiver goes by the name of Terrance Copper. With his special teams' abilities, Tom Crowder will probably be the fifth receiver. If Parcells goes with four tight ends, I doubt that he will keep six wideouts. That would mean that Morgan is the odd man out, imo.

Have patience.


my thoughts exactly!:hammer:
 

jackrussell

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wileedog said:
Again, Morgan has a 900+ yard season. = 56 yards per game. Whoop!!!

If he simply "couldnt catch", how do you think he accomplished that? If he COULD catch, he would have had a 1200 yard season, but since he can't, that's how he accomplished 900 yards.

Bottom line is his problems are way overblown. No, they're not. It's been that way his whole career, and I've watched his whole career(unfortuneately). He is what he is, a guy with speed, who tries to catch too much with his body in obvious compensation for his lack of ability to catch with his hands.[/QUOTE]

DallasEast! I'm surprised at you on your comment 'you can't teach speed.' Common belief, but untrue. Have a discussion with a track coach sometime on running mechanics, it'll be truly enlightening.
 

jay cee

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jackrussell said:
wileedog said:
Again, Morgan has a 900+ yard season. = 56 yards per game. Whoop!!!

If he simply "couldnt catch", how do you think he accomplished that? If he COULD catch, he would have had a 1200 yard season, but since he can't, that's how he accomplished 900 yards.

Bottom line is his problems are way overblown. No, they're not. It's been that way his whole career, and I've watched his whole career(unfortuneately). He is what he is, a guy with speed, who tries to catch too much with his body in obvious compensation for his lack of ability to catch with his hands.[/QUOTE]

DallasEast! I'm surprised at you on your comment 'you can't teach speed.' Common belief, but untrue. Have a discussion with a track coach sometime on running mechanics, it'll be truly enlightening.
I ran 5 second 40 when I played at Texas Southern back in the late 80's. That would have been fine if I had been a 280 pound d-lineman, but I was a 240 pound lineman. My coach told me I was the slowest black man that he had ever seen. I think he was exaggerating. :D

Now, while I'm sure with proper training, I could have lowered my 40 time slightly, I doubt that anyone could have turned me into the second coming of Carl Lewis.

I see what you are saying jackrussel, you can teach someone to run faster, so, "technically" you can "teach" speed. But you can't teach a slow receiver like Keyshawn to get downfield the way Morgan can.

And that's what people really mean when they use terms like you can't teach speed.
 

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wileedog said:
HIs roster spot is justified by backing up Terry Glenn, who rarely plays all 16.

Wileedog, I understand your reasoning..a lack of wide receiver speed was devastating to us last year. But I really see it as just another way to diss Terry. She's taking up two roster spaces. She's not just holding Crayton back, she's gonna cost Copper his job. I know YOU don't think along those lines, but some folks do.

The number of 'when he gets hurt' posts just today alone is incredible. Maybe folks should think back to 2003, as well as 2004, instead of knee jerking 'injury.'

Regardless of whether T plays 16 this year (and if he does I am calling EVERYBODY out), if we need to hold a roster spot for a player solely because the one who starts in front of him is sure to get injured, maybe we need to get rid of the walking accident case.

I'm only being half facetious. Speed depth is essential on any team, and I think Bill values it as much as anyone, whether it comes from Morgan, Copper or Crowder.

But I doubt he would for a minute hold onto anyone who dosesn't DESERVE a spot, based on the injury history of another player. Terry Glenn's supposed fragility does not and should not gift wrap a job for an underachiever.

Right now, I think Morgan should stay because of his experience, regardless of who is in front of him. Learning to read defenses takes times, and when the young players are faced with less vanilla schemes and fewer soft schemes, they will need more time to absorb them.

I hate to see a Copper released for an underachiever, and it won't bother me a bit if Morgan is. So if Terrance steps it up in practice the next few days and next game so that Bill can feel his speed isn't too compromised by inexperience, then I hope that is the direction he goes in.

But we not only need some speed behind Terry, we need more speed in general. It's a sad reality, but if a Randal Williams can hang around for three years, a Quincy Morgan can hang around for two.
 

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Badattitude said:
Parcells has been around football long enough to know this guy is a waste of roster space....GET RID OF HIM ALREADY BEFORE HE REALLY HURTS US....Go get anyone....with hands...I'll even take a slower guy ...as long as he doesn't short arm the team and drop touchdowns... :banghead:

Agreed - I'd take a half eaten grilled baloney sammitch and moonpie for him right now.
 

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I'm sort of shocked that such savy football fans as here would want Morgan released. I think you need to wait and see on him. He came to the team under very negative circumstances and then had an injury.

Then he was doing great in the off-season we were told until he had the shoulder injury diving for a catch in the last mini-camps.

We don't have a ton of money invested in him and need to wait and see on him. Especially after the coaches have changed his catching form. That's not easy stuff to do. And him replacing AB for whatever reasons is a tough way to come to the team because of all the turmoil associated there.

Personally, I think he's thinking too much and not playing with his natural ability. He's playing not to make mistakes an trying to please the coaches instead of playing to his strengths. That can kill you.

He's really in a poor position here with all this for now, but I don't see Dallas trying to get rid of him..not with two WR's coming off injuries from last year and needing a WR with experience incase one goes down.

Crayton is OK for now playing against 2nd and 3rd string defenses..I don't know he can play when the bullets are for real, yet.

Morgan has produced in the past for Cleveland in live games. And for us, briefly.

The other day I read Dallas was trying to trade Copper. I think he's the next cut at WR..not Morgan.

parcellswaterboy
 
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