Three Way Tie Breaking Procedures?

[links18]

OK, I have asked this in a couple of threads but no clear answer. Many here are suggesting that if we end in a three way tie with the NFC North Winner and Seattle, we can't get the #2 seed. Playoff generators seem to bear this out.

Why is this? Is it the case that in a three way tie, the three way tie breaking procedures are used to rank all three teams for each seed in question? Why do they not use the three way procedures (conference record) to determine the #1 seed and then revert to two way procedures (Head to Head) to settle the remaining two seeds, as per below?

From: http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

"To determine home-field priority among division-titlists, apply Wild Card tie-breakers.

TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM
If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs from each conference, the following steps will be taken.
If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps.
Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)"

Then there is this:

"Only one club advances to the playoffs in any tie-breaking step. Remaining tied clubs revert to the first step of the applicable division or Wild Card tie-breakers. As an example, if two clubs remain tied in any tie-breaker step after all other clubs have been eliminated, the procedure reverts to Step 1 of the two-club format to determine the winner. When one club wins the tiebreaker, all other clubs revert to Step 1 of the applicable two-club or three-club format."

I guess there is a difference between being "eliminated" in a tie break and "winning" a tie break. In other words, if a team is "eliminated" in one step they do go back to the two team procedures for the remaining two teams, but if one team "wins" they continue to use the three way procedure to break the tie between the remaining two teams?

 

[TrailBlazer]

Hypothetical: if seattle GB and dallas were all tied. And say, hypothetical, GB won the conference record and took the 1 seed. Why wouldn't they go to head to head dallas versus seattle where dallas would win. Instead of conference record where dallas would lose.

 

[gdogg24]

After going through it for... a while we can sit out next week it doesn't matter doesn't help or hurt us. We need the Rams to beat the Seahawks to get the two seed otherwise the loser of the GB/DET game is coming to Dallas in the wild-card.

 

[Avery]

We're playing the loser of DET-GB next week - any other scenario is difficult to imagine.

 

[gdogg24]

Hypothetical: if seattle GB and dallas were all tied. And say, hypothetical, GB won the conference record and took the 1 seed. Why wouldn't they go to head to head dallas versus seattle where dallas would win. Instead of conference record where dallas would lose.

Lol well I believe they would but we'd have to wait for that scenario to actually pop up to confirm that

 

[goshan]

Hypothetical: if seattle GB and dallas were all tied. And say, hypothetical, GB won the conference record and took the 1 seed. Why wouldn't they go to head to head dallas versus seattle where dallas would win. Instead of conference record where dallas would lose.

Read the rules. The first step is to eliminate the lowest team (the 3rd team in the 3-way tie breaker). We get knocked out first amongst these three teams on Step 3 because we have the worst conference record. This leaves GB and Seattle as the two teams still in the running - and then that reverts back to step 1.

The approach is to eliminate the lowest amongst the three first, not pick the highest team and rerun the tie breaker...lol.

 

[links18]

Read the rules. The first step is to eliminate the lowest team (the 3rd team in the 3-way tie breaker). We get knocked out first amongst these three teams on Step 3 because we have the worst conference record. This leaves GB and Seattle as the two teams still in the running - and then that reverts back to step 1.

The approach is to eliminate the lowest amongst the three first, not pick the highest team and rerun the tie breaker...lol.

So they determine the three seed first?

 

[goshan]

So they determine the three seed first?

yes, but it really doesn't matter in this case.

In a three-team tie, the 1st tie breaker is head to head across all three teams. But this is inclusive as they haven't all three played each other.

So it reverts to conference record, and we are in 3rd on that compared to Sea and GB.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Hypothetical: if seattle GB and dallas were all tied. And say, hypothetical, GB won the conference record and took the 1 seed. Why wouldn't they go to head to head dallas versus seattle where dallas would win. Instead of conference record where dallas would lose.

If Seattle, GB and Dallas are all tied at 12-4, Dallas will be eliminated because they will have the worst conference record. Then Green Bay will beat Seattle by the conference record tie-breaker.

If Seattle, DET and Dallas are all tied at 12-4, Dallas will be eliminated (conference record) and Seattle and DET, who will have the same conference record, will move on to later tie-breakers. Seattle wins, but I'm not sure which tie-breaker it is.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

OK, I have asked this in a couple of threads but no clear answer. Many here are suggesting that if we end in a three way tie with the NFC North Winner and Seattle, we can't get the #2 seed. Playoff generators seem to bear this out.

Why is this? Is it the case that in a three way tie, the three way tie breaking procedures are used to rank all three teams for each seed in question? Why do they not use the three way procedures (conference record) to determine the #1 seed and then revert to two way procedures (Head to Head) to settle the remaining two seeds, as per below?

From: http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures
"To determine home-field priority among division-titlists, apply Wild Card tie-breakers.

TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM
If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs from each conference, the following steps will be taken.
If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps.
Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)"

Then there is this:

"Only one club advances to the playoffs in any tie-breaking step. Remaining tied clubs revert to the first step of the applicable division or Wild Card tie-breakers. As an example, if two clubs remain tied in any tie-breaker step after all other clubs have been eliminated, the procedure reverts to Step 1 of the two-club format to determine the winner. When one club wins the tiebreaker, all other clubs revert to Step 1 of the applicable two-club or three-club format."

I guess there is a difference between being "eliminated" in a tie break and "winning" a tie break. In other words, if a team is "eliminated" in one step they do go back to the two team procedures for the remaining two teams, but if one team "wins" they continue to use the three way procedure to break the tie between the remaining two teams?

I've been trying to figure this out . Why does Seattle get #1 vs gb but we don't over Seattle if we all go 12-4 ? Seems like bs . We should be the 1st seed . Gb got whooped by NO and Seattle we dominated those two . And we beat Seattle head to head . What is the tie breaker for seeding ? During game today ( Sunday nite ) they said Seattle could only clinch #1 seed IF Dallas loses next week .

 

[TrailBlazer]

Right I understand how it works. Just think head to head would be more pertinent when GB would already be the first seed and it's between DAL and seattle

 

[goshan]

I've been trying to figure this out . Why does Seattle get #1 vs gb but we don't over Seattle if we all go 12-4 ? Seems like bs . We should be the 1st seed . Gb got whooped by NO and Seattle we dominated those two . And we beat Seattle head to head . What is the tie breaker for seeding ? During game today ( Sunday nite ) they said Seattle could only clinch #1 seed IF Dallas loses next week .

SEE BELOW. THERE IS NO HEAD TO HEAD SWEEP. SO IT MOVES TO #3. CONF RECORD SETTLES IT AND WE LOSE. THE TIE BREAKER DOESN'T HAVE TO REVERT TO STEP 1.

Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)

1. Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.
2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in conference games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
12. Coin toss

1. 
   

 

[Kevinicus]

If Seattle, GB and Dallas are all tied at 12-4, Dallas will be eliminated because they will have the worst conference record. Then Green Bay will beat Seattle by the conference record tie-breaker.

If Seattle, DET and Dallas are all tied at 12-4, Dallas will be eliminated (conference record) and Seattle and DET, who will have the same conference record, will move on to later tie-breakers. Seattle wins, but I'm not sure which tie-breaker it is.

Seattle would get the one over GB.

 

[goshan]

Right I understand how it works. Just think head to head would be more pertinent when GB would already be the first seed and it's between DAL and seattle

I don't see it changing. I think it is probably the most fair now. You can only use head to head in a 3-way tie if the teams have all played each other and one team beat the other two....

 

[JD_KaPow]

Yes, my mistake. Forgot about the SEA-GB game. SEA wins.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

I see now still dumb and doesn't make sense . We whooped Seattle .

 

[links18]

Are we sure SEA gets the #1 seed in this scenario?

 

[Staubacher]

I get the rules but it stinks that we won in Seattle but will have to go there again to make the Super Bowl. Meanwhile Green Bay who lost to Seattle who we beat grabs the 2 seed.

Just peculiar how it played out. The moral is though if you're going to lose games do it outside your conference!

 

[links18]

I get the rules but it stinks that we won in Seattle but will have to go there again to make the Super Bowl. Meanwhile Green Bay who lost to Seattle who we beat grabs the 2 seed.

Just peculiar how it played out. The moral is though if you're going to lose games do it outside your conference!

This would be avoided if the rules determined the #1 first rather than the #3 seed.

 

[Fizziksman]