TIKI BARBER vs J. Jones

[DLCassidy]

Tiki is a top 10 back. JJ is only in his 2nd year and he's still hurt.

 

[jem88]

Think big picture. Drafting efficiency. We probably could have gotten him in free agency and used that 6th rounder on something else. They did the same on Crayton last year, he's a good player, but we could have gotten him in free agency. You're supposed to make your draft picks count because they are precious. See Henson. He can't beat out a guy we got as a udfa qb, hence, we threw away a third rounder this year that we could have spent on a quality rt or wr or cb. Efficient drafting means that you build up depth because all of your players can play or nearly all. What did we get in 2004, maybe 2 players, and Crayton was a qb/wr/kr from an itty-bitty school, who would have been available as a udfa, because he had no position.

So picking a starting RT in the 6th and a solid #3 WR in the 7th is an example of dodgy drafting? That seems to be what you're saying. I guess picking Leon Lett was also a wasted pick given that he played for Emporia State and probably would've been around as a FA. Now explain to me how Quincy Carter wasn't a wasted 2nd rounder.

 

[TunaFan33]

FWIW-let's all be patient. When Bill P came aboard, this organization was a mess. Now-it's slowly but surely coming out.

Still the holes there, and Bill P could have done a better job with the OL-but it looks like he'll fix it the way he fixed the D this year.

 

[Chuck 54]

How in the heck does TIKI get 200 plus yards rushing with his offensive line all banged up and JJ barely rushes for anything at all last week.

What is our problem in the rushing game?

Are you serious? Tiki Barber is Tiki Barber. Who the heck is Julius Jones...no offense to the young man, but Tiki is a proven RB in this league who's been very good for a very long time. Julius Jones is a guy who had a nice run for a few games last season but hasn't proven he can be a star in this league or even in Dallas....yet.

 

[TunaFan33]

Are you serious? Tiki Barber is Tiki Barber. Who the heck is Julius Jones...no offense to the young man, but Tiki is a proven RB in this league who's been very good for a very long time. Julius Jones is a guy who had a nice run for a few games last season but hasn't proven he can be a star in this league or even in Dallas....yet.

Our rookie FB(Polite) has been pretty shaky until recently, FWIW. In just about every game, he would miss a blocking assignment or 2-leading to a tackle or sack for a big loss.

The OL, without a doubt, is largely to blame. But couldn't help thinking too that if he makes those blocks, our run game would be like the Gints.

 

[lspain1]

Our line is clearly a weakness and eventually will be our downfall this year. It's an obvious reality.


Reality is not only sometimes funny......but it hurts sometimes as well.

Correct!

 

[kdog]

Ok! once and for all, JJ has been forced to run with two hands on the ball. BP has ruined this kids god given gift to run in a fluid style. JJ is not a bruising back and BP has this kid running into 8 and 9 man fronts. No wonder this kid is hurt all of the time.

JJ is afraid of bp jumping down his throat. Last year the kid hit holes and used his vision to find open holes, He was in his element deviating from the straight ahead running style that BP has him running!

Watch the kc game and you will see that once the playaction pass started working kc went to a four man front and holes began to open! No o-line can block against 8 or 9 men. Then to have the same old conservative play calling along with BP running our backs into 8/9 men fronts instead of picthing out or running quick hit slants has killed us!

 

[TunaFan33]

Ok! once and for all, JJ has been forced to run with two hands on the ball. BP has ruined this kids god given gift to run in a fluid style. JJ is not a bruising back and BP has this kid running into 8 and 9 man fronts. No wonder this kid is hurt all of the time.

JJ is afraid of bp jumping down his throat. Last year the kid hit holes and used his vision to find open holes, He was in his element deviating from the straight ahead running style that BP has him running!

Watch the kc game and you will see that once the playaction pass started working kc went to a four man front and holes began to open! No o-line can block against 8 or 9 men. Then to have the same old conservative play calling along with BP running our backs into 8/9 men fronts instead of picthing out or running quick hit slants has killed us!

I agree with you. However-JJ's high ankle injury in the Philly game wasn't against an 8/9 man front at the time-FWIW.

 

[wxcpo]

How in the heck does TIKI get 200 plus yards rushing with his offensive line all banged up and JJ barely rushes for anything at all last week.

What is our problem in the rushing game?

That's easy, Tiki is probably one of the most under rated players in the NFL and Jones is no where near his class. Jones has a long ways to go to be the back that Tiki is and the back that some on this board think he is.

 

[burmafrd]

JJ was doing the same thing last year that Tiki was doing this year. JJ's style was radically changed this year- BP is responsible. And now JJ is not the back he was- even before the injury. JUst plain DUMB on the part of BP. But will he admit it? I doubt it. If I were JJ I would ask for a meeting and tell BP that either you let me run my way, which worked; or trade me. Right now I am nothing. BP would probably cut him- which in the long run would be better for him- he could go to a team that would let him be the back he was last year.

 

[Rack]

JJ was doing the same thing last year that Tiki was doing this year. JJ's style was radically changed this year- BP is responsible. And now JJ is not the back he was- even before the injury. JUst plain DUMB on the part of BP. But will he admit it? I doubt it. If I were JJ I would ask for a meeting and tell BP that either you let me run my way, which worked; or trade me. Right now I am nothing. BP would probably cut him- which in the long run would be better for him- he could go to a team that would let him be the back he was last year.

You're still trying to convince people of this crap, huh?


No matter how many times you say it, it won't make it true. You obviously never played RB at any level at any time in your life. People don't change their styles, Period. You can't make subtle improvements, but no one completely changes their whole style.

And if JuJo were that easily intimidated into changing his whole style then he's not worth a crap anyway.

 

[md2005]

If took Tiki three years to become a credible back. Acutally, JJ is ahead of Tiki in terms of development if you compared their first two season. If if remains ahead of him in the next five years, we have outself a RB. Heres to hoping

 

[Scotman]

It's not so hard to figure out. The Giants went out and got Kareem McKenzie to play RT and we wasted a draft pick on Pettitti. Now, the Jets who let McKenzie go are struggling to run the ball after CMart had a tremendous season last year. The Giants also got Burress which along with Toomer gives them 2 big receivers to block in the running game.

You have got to be kidding. Who should we have taken at that point that has done more? Pettiti has beaten all the odds to this point. Not only is RT one of the hardest positions to learn on the line, but the line is one of the hardest positions to even make an impact as a rookie. This kid has started every game and has shown slow, steady improvment. He played his best game just last week.

Wasted a 6th round pick? When you draft players out of Sacred Heart who never touch the field, that's a wasted pick. A starting RT in the 6th is a STEAL.

 

[JohnsKey19]

Tiki Barber is a better player than Julius Jones right now. Not even close IMO. Now that's not to say that JJ won't improve and someday reach Tiki's level as a player. But right now, all we can do is judge what we've seen of the two.

Two other things...

1. The Giants somehow with a depleted O-Line open more holes in the running game, which is sad, as someone mentioned earlier...

2. The Giants have a more creative rushing attack. You could see they designed cutback plays yesterday specifically to counter KC's aggressive defense. All the Cowboys run are power plays with MAYBE 2-3 draws or counters in an entire game.

 

[Martice]

JJ was doing the same thing last year that Tiki was doing this year. JJ's style was radically changed this year- BP is responsible. And now JJ is not the back he was- even before the injury. JUst plain DUMB on the part of BP. But will he admit it? I doubt it. If I were JJ I would ask for a meeting and tell BP that either you let me run my way, which worked; or trade me. Right now I am nothing. BP would probably cut him- which in the long run would be better for him- he could go to a team that would let him be the back he was last year.

I don't know about this logic because if BP indeed changed JJ's running style, why would he in turn let a rookie, who has fumbled more than his share this year, continue to run wide open? MB hasn't earned any right or trust to run with purpose. He didn't have the year that JJ had last year to have all of this freedom to run more wide open than JJ.

Since we all claim to feel that BP has ruined JJ's running style, why is MB not running with the same cautious style? In addition, MB is supposed to be the bruising back of the two. However, he runs more like a HB than JJ does. What I saw last year from JJ is that he is an excellent cut back runner but he is not a back that makes something out of nothing. He doesn't run for power and he goes down too easy. The runs that Tiki had last night JJ could not do if we gave him a do over on the play. He is not that type of back. JJ is not even Warrick Dunn. I think MB is more like Warrick Dunn and to me that's not too bad.

JJ looks to me like Emmitt 3 years before he retired behind our bad 'O' line. The only excuse I'll accept is maybe his leg is not completely healed and if that's the case, why start him. If he is in pain, don't start him and let him work it up to speed. In the mean time, let the better of the two backs get the main work.

 

[devotedfan]

You have got to be kidding. Who should we have taken at that point that has done more? Pettiti has beaten all the odds to this point. Not only is RT one of the hardest positions to learn on the line, but the line is one of the hardest positions to even make an impact as a rookie. This kid has started every game and has shown slow, steady improvment. He played his best game just last week.

Wasted a 6th round pick? When you draft players out of Sacred Heart who never touch the field, that's a wasted pick. A starting RT in the 6th is a STEAL.

Absolutely right. Robert Gallery was a first rounder for the Raiders who still hasn't found his way. Give Pettiti a break. New league. New position. And like all rookies, this part of the season is when they hit 'the wall'.

 

[burmafrd]

Rack- you are full of crap. You know nothing. If you are too stupid to ignore the OBVIOUS differences between JJ this year and last year, then you are not even worth replying to. You are like Kartr is about Q. Totally oblivious to the obvious.

 

[jem88]

Rack- you are full of crap. You know nothing. If you are too stupid to ignore the OBVIOUS differences between JJ this year and last year, then you are not even worth replying to. You are like Kartr is about Q. Totally oblivious to the obvious.

But perhaps the obvious differences have to do with his injury and being over-cautious as a result. I have to agree with Rack, any RB who changes his running style at the coach's behest is not the sort of RB I would want on this team. I think JJ is stronger than that.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

In addition to whats already been posted as to why Tiki got more than JJ against the Chiefs...

I think it is partially because we broke the Chiefs a little(benefitting the Giants) and we exposed them too...

 

[Cowboy Junkie]

Tiki is better