Time for an OL shift

[jrumann59]

No one is saying off with his head, ISIS.

Figures of speech are lost on you.....

 

[quickccc]

The LG and C spots are the weak links. Don’t see how we keep Connor Williams going forward. Someone will pay him— but he is not a long term answer at LG for us.

So it makes sense to get our best 5 out there now and LG is the easier position to upgrade vs C. McG or Zack are upgrades— However, McGovern’s most natural position is RG. Zack may be able to transition to LG faster and expedite the process.

Smith
Zack
Biadasz
McGovern
Collins

We put some more beef next to Biadasz and hope Zack and McGovern can shore things up on the inside.

I realize swapping McG for Williams is more straight forward— but part of me just really wants to see Zack and Tyron cave defenses in on the left side lol

i believe the Cowboys are still the No.1 offense in total yards, and 2nd highest scoring team in NFL,.. I highly doubt they are not gonna be switching out three different players in the middle of the
season, for the sake of one player (Williams) ...

 

[JW82]

The LG and C spots are the weak links. Don’t see how we keep Connor Williams going forward. Someone will pay him— but he is not a long term answer at LG for us.

So it makes sense to get our best 5 out there now and LG is the easier position to upgrade vs C. McG or Zack are upgrades— However, McGovern’s most natural position is RG. Zack may be able to transition to LG faster and expedite the process.

Smith
Zack
Biadasz
McGovern
Collins

We put some more beef next to Biadasz and hope Zack and McGovern can shore things up on the inside.

I realize swapping McG for Williams is more straight forward— but part of me just really wants to see Zack and Tyron cave defenses in on the left side lol

I am with you. Dak has hidden the warts of the sometime leaky pass protection with his quick release. If you can upgrade at any spot, you always should IMO. I'd have an open comp between, the Conners, Biadaz, Steele for both the LG and Center position. They are c level players at best and should not be guaranteed starting roles.

 

[JoeKing]

Figures of speech are lost on you.....

Are they?

 

[panchucko]

First it was replace Biadasz now the target shifted to Williams

Hang around, another penalty by Zach and his head will be on a platter

 

[SackMaster]

Man, I am going to feel sorry for those who believe that the o-line change MUST happen during the bye, and it doesn't.

And while I can see that Williams and Biadasz have been the weak-link on the offensive line, I'm sure the coaches will take note that the Cowboys offense is Top 5 in the following:

• Total Scoring (1st)
• Total Yards (1st)
• Passing Yards (5th)
• Rushing Yards (2nd)
• 3rd Down % (4th)
• Total 1st Downs (2nd)

The only place they are not "good" at is penalties. And while there have been some legit "well that is obvious" penalties against our o-line, there have been some "come on ref, Gregory is getting tackled but THAT is as a hold" calls as well.

In any case, I'm going to sit back and see what happens (after all, not one coach or front office person gives a crap what I think anyways).

If there is a shake up, I can see why (unless they benched Martin) and will hope it works out. And if there are not any changes, to include Collins backing up Steele, based off our offensive production, I can understand why.

At 5-1 with arguably the best offense in the NFL going into the bye? I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.

 

[Hawkeye19]

i believe the Cowboys are still the No.1 offense in total yards, and 2nd highest scoring team in NFL,.. I highly doubt they are not gonna be switching out three different players in the middle of the
season, for the sake of one player (Williams) ...

I understand the risk. As long as you understand a costly flag by Williams (who leads the NFL in flags) or a costly turnover or injury because they got pushed into Dak’s lap would be just as risky.

Play your best 5. If Connor Williams is not on that list— make the adjustments now over the bye and with a 3 game lead in the division

 

[Ranched]

LOL. Cowboys aren't going to mess with something that doesn't need fixing. This team is 5 - 1 not 1 - 5!

 

[Jarntt]

Why? He played RT well. Larry Allen bounced around from LG to LT. If McGovern needs the security of a more comfortable position fit— and Zack can play LG at a high level (why wouldn’t he be able to?)— why not make the switch?

Unless you are fine with continuing to watch Williams get flagged and stall drives — and he and Biadasz getting collapsed a few times every game.

We have been able to overcome some of these issues— but sooner or later— they can cost you a game

Martin is the best player on the team you don't move him like this is a video game. You keep him where he is and fit in pieces around him unless there is an emergency like putting him at RT last year. Rumor was we didn't do that again this year because he didn't want to move from his current spot. We should move him because McGovern likes playing RG over LG? That doesn't make sense. Also, don't play it like it's either move Martin or we can't make other changes. This offense is just crushing teams. Why would we just start blowing it up? Any change you make could impact our run game and that impacts how the defense plays us and thus our passing game too. Tinker if you want, but these wholesale changes are asking for trouble

 

[Hawkeye19]

I wouldn't give up so easily on Williams. Just because he had a horrible game on Sunday doesn't mean he sucks. The OL has been playing well all year in fact are #2 in the league in rushing.

I didn’t say Williams sucks. I said he leads the league in penalties— and he and Biadasz are getting collapsed a few times every game.

The question is whether or not McGovern is ready to start and is he a better player than Williams is right now? That is up for debate for sure.

To me— Williams is more than likely not getting a long term deal here (only so much pie to go around)— and he is an adequate starting player, and he comes with some negatives.

 

[blueblood70]

I understand the risk. As long as you understand a costly flag by Williams (who leads the NFL in flags) or a costly turnover or injury because they got pushed into Dak’s lap would be just as risky.

Play your best 5. If Connor Williams is not on that list— make the adjustments now over the bye and with a 3 game lead in the division

ok coach i believe our staff has handle on this..they will make change if they think they have a better option.

2 coaching staff's 4 OL coaches in Cwills career and odd hes still starting..cant be favoritism with all those changes..

Cwill got some issue for sure but you al have been calling for his job for 4 years and hes still got it..

BTW if you break down film like coaches you would see some of his issues are all his.

i remember last game one call hes blocking one guy his guy and another defender hits the hole to his right and he reached while blocking his guy with his left hand and uses his right hand to reach out and grabbed him to keep dak from being killed..it wasnt his guy most like Biadsz guy and he grabbed to prevent something worse from happening..

its like when cb knows hes beat most likely for TD and pulled down a receiver and get PI, well it save da td..i know it looks bad i dont like all these penalties and poor blocking but its far more complicated then its all Cwills fault..he and Biadsz next to each other is not great and whos making the most mistakes only the coaches know..

they will make changes if its for the good of the TEAM, not fans..no reason to simply just pull cwill and give CM a shot ..no need for wholesale changes,..

 

[Hawkeye19]

Martin is the best player on the team you don't move him like this is a video game. You keep him where he is and fit in pieces around him unless there is an emergency like putting him at RT last year. Rumor was we didn't do that again this year because he didn't want to move from his current spot. We should move him because McGovern likes playing RG over LG? That doesn't make sense. Also, don't play it like it's either move Martin or we can't make other changes. This offense is just crushing teams. Why would we just start blowing it up? Any change you make could impact our run game and that impacts how the defense plays us and thus our passing game too. Tinker if you want, but these wholesale changes are asking for trouble

We are 5-1– but you are in denial if you think we “crushed” NE. We were shooting ourselves in the foot all game long— and part of that was Williams getting flagged on a regular basis.

Dak overcame some ridiculous down and distance situations and we won the game— but brother, you cannot count on that happening every time.

Had we lost this game— trust me— the calls for Connor Williams to be benched would be loud as hell. Dak is masking some deficiencies right now. Pointing at our W/L record and saying everything is “fine” is ignoring some warning signs.

And replacing Williams is hardly “blowing it up” lol… dramatic much? Lol

 

[Hawkeye19]

ok coach i believe our staff has handle on this..they will make change if they think they have a better option.

2 coaching staff's 4 OL coaches in Cwills career and odd hes still starting..cant be favoritism with all those changes..

Cwill got some issue for sure but you al have been calling for his job for 4 years and hes still got it..

BTW if you break down film like coaches you would see some of his issues are all his.

i remember last game one call hes blocking one guy his guy and another defender hits the hole to his right and he reached while blocking his guy with his left hand and uses his right hand to reach out and grabbed him to keep dak from being killed..it wasnt his guy most like Biadsz guy and he grabbed to prevent something worse from happening..

its like when cb knows hes beat most likely for TD and pulled down a receiver and get PI, well it save da td..i know it looks bad i dont like all these penalties and poor blocking but its far more complicated then its all Cwills fault..he and Biadsz next to each other is not great and whos making the most mistakes only the coaches know..

they will make changes if its for the good of the TEAM, not fans..no reason to simply just pull cwill and give CM a shot ..no need for wholesale changes,..

I hear you… status quo is good enough in your opinion. For me— it’s not. Not when there is potentially better solutions available.

And the coaches will do what they think is best— but fans can evaluate and criticize as well. I am sure they are talking about it— because JJ said as much on the radio the other day.

 

[blueblood70]

you dont get to decide what status quo is ok keyboard coach LOL

what you think less then matters anywhere. that fact.this is the internet, not real life, no ones watching that matters..you writing a letters to MM and Jerry begging him for these moves?

..if you believe that full staff of professional coaches, trainers, doctors, and the owner/gm haven't had many conversations over that best choice of an OL grouping many times this season haven't had thoughts and stayed with this lineup for good reason???

you think you thought about this and they missed it? lmao

you think they are ignoring it on purpose to make our team worse?

you really truly believe you had some original thought the entre Dallas Cowboys staff over looked? umm ok

they have reasons for keeping Cwill and TB in there..not sure what they are but ill trust the collectives staff over my or your opinions.

like i said i can see why maybe they put in McGovern over the break and see how he plays..at this point they will decide this not us..

 

[Jarntt]

We are 5-1– but you are in denial if you think we “crushed” NE. We were shooting ourselves in the foot all game long— and part of that was Williams getting flagged on a regular basis.

Dak overcame some ridiculous down and distance situations and we won the game— but brother, you cannot count on that happening every time.

Had we lost this game— trust me— the calls for Connor Williams to be benched would be loud as hell. Dak is masking some deficiencies right now. Pointing at our W/L record and saying everything is “fine” is ignoring some warning signs.

And replacing Williams is hardly “blowing it up” lol… dramatic much? Lol

And if Dak didn't throw behind the receiver in the end zone or fumble on the 4th and goal we blow them out. It's a game of ups and downs. Every player has good and bad plays. You are ignoring how well Williams has played in the run game. I'm a McGovern fan more than a Williams fan and by a decent amount. I would have started him at LG this year. But you guys just act like it's plug and play and if you don't like something you just move the pieces around and it will get better

And perhaps you have a reading comp issue, but my point has been about moving Martin to accommodate McGovern, not necessarily replacing Williams with McGovern. I'm sorry to be blunt but moving Martin is moronic. We have other options if we want to replace Williams or an OL. Plus if Williams or McGovern is your weaker OG don't you want them next to Smith?

 

[Rockport]

I didn’t say Williams sucks. I said he leads the league in penalties— and he and Biadasz are getting collapsed a few times every game.

The question is whether or not McGovern is ready to start and is he a better player than Williams is right now? That is up for debate for sure.

To me— Williams is more than likely not getting a long term deal here (only so much pie to go around)— and he is an adequate starting player, and he comes with some negatives.

You said you want to bench him so that' saying he sucks. The OL is responsible for the #2 ranked rush offense in the entire NFL. Sounds like they're playing pretty well.

 

[Hawkeye19]

And if Dak didn't throw behind the receiver in the end zone or fumble on the 4th and goal we blow them out. It's a game of ups and downs. Every player has good and bad plays. You are ignoring how well Williams has played in the run game.

And perhaps you have a reading comp issue, but my point has been about moving Martin to accommodate McGovern, not necessarily replacing Williams with McGovern. I'm sorry to be blunt but moving Martin is moronic. We have so many other options if we want to replace Williams or an OL. Plus if Williams or McGovern is your weaker OG don't you want them next to Smith?

I understand your point— but I think you are WAY overestimating the difficulty Zack would experience moving from RG to LG. You have not looked at two precedents I mentioned previously: Zack swapped from RG to RT— no issues. And Larry Allen moved around between LG and LT. A move from G to T is more difficult than simply RG to LG— and the best players handle those transitions.

The only reason to consider moving Zack is to give the younger player more security at his natural position. If McG can play LG at a higher level than Williams— then by all means— do that and leave Zack at RG

If we stay with the status quo— I think the flaws that are present now can be exploited by playoff teams that have a good defense. I am looking at the big picture and wanting to see us field the most competitive OL in Jan/Feb— not just what might be “good enough” in the reg season.

 

[quickccc]

I understand the risk. As long as you understand a costly flag by Williams (who leads the NFL in flags) or a costly turnover or injury because they got pushed into Dak’s lap would be just as risky.

Play your best 5. If Connor Williams is not on that list— make the adjustments now over the bye and with a 3 game lead in the division

While we would still have issues at center ... the problem that stifles your suggestion is McGovern inability (or struggles) to play LG role.
A role that he may likely have to take over once it's assumed Williams will depart as a FA.

Unless of course, Philbin plays into your suggestion with moving Martin to LG, while McGovern takes the RG role,.. in the next offseason (not during this regular season) and camp.

 

[Hawkeye19]

You said you want to bench him so that' saying he sucks. The OL is responsible for the #2 ranked rush offense in the entire NFL. Sounds like they're playing pretty well.

No. Replacing a guy doesn’t mean he “sucks”. Does that mean McGovern “sucks” because he is on the bench now? Lol… gimme a break

This is simply about playing your best 5. And yes, the running game looks good— but two things:

1. McG is an excellent run blocker— so replacing Williams with a great run blocker hardly hurts us

and

2. The issues are in pass protection. Williams and Biadasz are light in the pants and are getting collapsed a few times every game. We need to improve that part of our OL play

 

[xwalker]

The LG and C spots are the weak links. Don’t see how we keep Connor Williams going forward. Someone will pay him— but he is not a long term answer at LG for us.

So it makes sense to get our best 5 out there now and LG is the easier position to upgrade vs C. McG or Zack are upgrades— However, McGovern’s most natural position is RG. Zack may be able to transition to LG faster and expedite the process.

Smith
Zack
Biadasz
McGovern
Collins

We put some more beef next to Biadasz and hope Zack and McGovern can shore things up on the inside.

I realize swapping McG for Williams is more straight forward— but part of me just really wants to see Zack and Tyron cave defenses in on the left side lol

No.

A big part of Steele playing well at RT despite being terrible at LT in the preseason is the fact that Zack Martin is next to him.
- La'el is great physically; however, he is not a smart player and makes many mistakes, especially in run blocking.
- Putting a young player at RG would just cause La'el to make more mistakes.

McGovern needs to practice snapping 24/7.
- Bring in L.P. Ladouceur and Dale Hellestrae to teach McGovern long snapping.
- Then shotgun snaps will seem easy.

The other option is to move CW to OC and play McGovern at LG.
- If Biadasz can't snap reliably, then the might as well play CW there.
- I don't believe that McGovern can't play LG.
- McCarthy just said that to deflect the questions about replacing CW with McGovern.

FYI: Connor Williams is a much better player than most fans/media believe.
- There is more to playing OL than just over-powering defenders.
- CW rarely makes mental mistakes and his timing/angles on 2nd level blocking is terrific.
- He is very good at picking up and handing off stunting/blitzing defenders.

When La'el play LG he had some highlight plays of over-powering defenders.
- However, he made a huge amount of mistakes.
- La'el was basically clueless in picking up and handing off stunting/blitzing defenders.
- He still make a lot of mistakes at RT but OT is mentally easier than playing on the interior.
- OT is more about physical ability and less about mental ability as compared to OG/OC.