Time to learn some truth about the front office

[Jake]

There’s been crazy and negative speculation on here as it regards the front office. Why do people here think:

1) Jerry is still the day to day GM?
2) The team has been bad at drafting?

Jerry is only involved in the big decisions. And even then it’s to give his stamp of approval. Stephen is the one actually making the day to day decisions and even then it’s guys like Will McClay for player scouting and others that do contracts doing most of the work. It wasn’t Stephen or Jerry that did Zekes contract. It was some other guy who I don’t recall his name.

As for drafting the Cowboys have been pretty good relative to the rest of the league. Yes thereve been misses but every team has them.

In the last 10 years the team has drafted:

Tyron
Frederick
Dez
Dak
Zach
DLaw
Byron
Zeke
CD
Diggs
Gallup
Pollard
LVE
Lee
Murray
Schultz
Dwayne Harris (still in the league 9 years later)
Crawford (still in league 8 years later)
Hitchens (starting for Chiefs)
Damien Wilson (starting for Chiefs)
Traded a 1 for Coop

Overall they’ve drafted 13 pro bowlers which is an average of 1.3 per draft and will probably be more in a few years with at least CD and Diggs.

If you’re going to average 1 pro bowler every draft and numerous starters that will play 8-9 years you’re doing your job. Find me how many pro bowlers over 10 years other teams have drafted. I’d imagine Dallas is in the top 10 in the league in that.

The player personnel has been pretty good. I’d say poor coaching on defense and bad luck is the reason the team hasn’t gotten to NFC title games the last 10 years. DeMarcos fumble in 2014 in GB and the 3rd down bomb from Rodgers in 2016.

Defensively the scheme has never complimented the offense and was a liability in the playoffs in 2018 and all season in 2019. This year it’s just all over the place between coaches and players.

If I had to grade the front office on player personnel, I’d say a B+ and that’s mainly due to handling of contracts not the talent they bring in. The biggest error they made was trying to use Jaylons one good season as leverage against Zeke in training camp in 2019. Shouldn’t have extended him. They also gave Marinelli way too much input in the draft. Cost them Taco and Trysten. But the Patriots miss with WRs in the 1st round all the time so mistakes happen everywhere. Their drafted WRs since like 2010 have 183 total catches in the league on a graphic Fox showed a few weeks ago.

Stop taking the easy road and saying the FO is trash. Because reality is their among the best in talent acquisition, probably below average on contracts and average in evaluating coaches. The rest of the league minus New England and Kansas City have all the same complaints about who wears their headset. Even Sean Payton went 7-9 3 straight years.

One, "some other guy" didn't have the authority to sign Zeke's contract. It was approved by the Jones boys. Otherwise, it wouldn't happen.

Two, I couldn't care less about the number of Pro Bowlers. Part of it is fan voting, and the Cowboys haven't sniffed the "bowl" that matters in 25 years.

 

[Cmac]

JJ is still trying to prove Jimmy wasn't a good coach. Problem.....Jimmy was a motivator and held some accountability. Until he let's that go, along with his ego about it, we may be doomed. Karma is biting JJ in the #$#$#.

 

[Parcells4Life]

I dont think that's a radio myth but I'm not up for debating it.

I do agree that Jerry himself (throw the kid in there also) isnt necessarily the problem.

He just needs to realize how his actions and mouth undermine the staff and make their jobs that much more difficult.

True, there have been many, many good players come through here in the last 20 years.

There should have been much more on the field success than there has been.

They are entitled and never tough when need be. They are routinely out coached or under prepared in too many spots.

Bottom line is we have to suffer through second rate coaching that kisses up to Jerry and makes him comfortable.

The players not fearing or looking at the HC as the ultimate power is a recipe for disaster, and has been going on here since BP left.

I agree with 99% of what is here. The only thing I would say about players and Jerry’s relationship is it’s not all the players. It’s the top 10% that have produced and the few that either get complacent or peak that have been the problem. Antwaun Woods is not telling McCarthy to shove it and running to Jerry because he hasn’t done anything to make Jerry loyal to him.

Jerry’s loyalty as a father type to the 90s players and grandfather to this generation is the problem as it was with making a decision about Garrett. He doesn’t want to let go. Stephen goes too far the other way trying to out Belichick everyone like the Dak deal when sometimes you have to give in to the cornerstone of the franchise.

They didn’t need a session of Congress to cut Poe and Worley when they didn’t produce like they did for Dez and ultimately would for Zeke or Jaylon.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

As for drafting the Cowboys have been pretty good relative to the rest of the league. Yes thereve been misses but every team has them.

True, every team has hits and misses in the draft. Talent evaluation is not a perfect science.

The problem is strategic decisions. For example- using a rare #4 overall draft pick (the highest pick the Cowboys have had in many many years), on a RB- a position which has perhaps the shortest life in the NFL, and is also the easiest to find in later rounds. The question is not whether or not Zeke was a good RB, but rather should the team use such a high pick on that position.

These are the kinds of management mistakes that have yielded poor results for decades.

BTW- the player chosen immediately after Zeke- Jalen Ramsey (who many wanted Dallas to pick), was recently traded for TWO first round picks and a fourth round pick. What is the trade value of Elliott, who Jerry Jones preferred?

 

[kskboys]

True, every team has hits and misses in the draft. Talent evaluation is not a perfect science.

The problem is strategic decisions. For example- using a rare #4 overall draft pick (the highest pick the Cowboys have had in many many years), on a RB- a position which has perhaps the shortest life in the NFL, and is also the easiest to find in later rounds. The question is not whether or not Zeke was a good RB, but rather should the team use such a high pick on that position.

These are the kinds of management mistakes that have yielded poor results for decades.

BTW- the player chosen immediately after Zeke- Jalen Ramsey (who many wanted Dallas to pick), was recently traded for TWO first round picks and a fourth round pick. What is the trade value of Elliott, who Jerry Jones preferred?

By the same token, we took a LB coming off a gruesome injury in the 2nd while SEA happily snapped up interior DLiner Jarron Reed, who BTW had 10 sacks last year at DT. Stupid.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

By the same token, we took a LB coming off a gruesome injury in the 2nd while SEA happily snapped up interior DLiner Jarron Reed, who BTW had 10 sacks last year at DT. Stupid.

Yes! But Jerry got a Great Deal! A Bargain!
He really proved what a sly, crafty, brilliant GM he is by finding this gem.

 

[buybuydandavis]

There’s been crazy and negative speculation on here as it regards the front office. Why do people here think:

1) Jerry is still the day to day GM?
2) The team has been bad at drafting?

Jerry is only involved in the big decisions. And even then it’s to give his stamp of approval. Stephen is the one actually making the day to day decisions and even then it’s guys like Will McClay for player scouting and others that do contracts doing most of the work. It wasn’t Stephen or Jerry that did Zekes contract. It was some other guy who I don’t recall his name.

As for drafting the Cowboys have been pretty good relative to the rest of the league. Yes thereve been misses but every team has them.

In the last 10 years the team has drafted:

Tyron
Frederick
Dez
Dak
Zach
DLaw
Byron
Zeke
CD
Diggs
Gallup
Pollard
LVE
Lee
Murray
Schultz
Dwayne Harris (still in the league 9 years later)
Crawford (still in league 8 years later)
Hitchens (starting for Chiefs)
Damien Wilson (starting for Chiefs)
Traded a 1 for Coop

Overall they’ve drafted 13 pro bowlers which is an average of 1.3 per draft and will probably be more in a few years with at least CD and Diggs.

If you’re going to average 1 pro bowler every draft and numerous starters that will play 8-9 years you’re doing your job. Find me how many pro bowlers over 10 years other teams have drafted. I’d imagine Dallas is in the top 10 in the league in that.

The player personnel has been pretty good. I’d say poor coaching on defense and bad luck is the reason the team hasn’t gotten to NFC title games the last 10 years. DeMarcos fumble in 2014 in GB and the 3rd down bomb from Rodgers in 2016.

Defensively the scheme has never complimented the offense and was a liability in the playoffs in 2018 and all season in 2019. This year it’s just all over the place between coaches and players.

If I had to grade the front office on player personnel, I’d say a B+ and that’s mainly due to handling of contracts not the talent they bring in. The biggest error they made was trying to use Jaylons one good season as leverage against Zeke in training camp in 2019. Shouldn’t have extended him. They also gave Marinelli way too much input in the draft. Cost them Taco and Trysten. But the Patriots miss with WRs in the 1st round all the time so mistakes happen everywhere. Their drafted WRs since like 2010 have 183 total catches in the league on a graphic Fox showed a few weeks ago.

Stop taking the easy road and saying the FO is trash. Because reality is their among the best in talent acquisition, probably below average on contracts and average in evaluating coaches. The rest of the league minus New England and Kansas City have all the same complaints about who wears their headset. Even Sean Payton went 7-9 3 straight years.

Look at our top defensive picks for the last 5 years.

Diggs - ok so far.
Hill, LVE, Taco, Jaylon - that's how you gut your defense. All your high picks don't pan out.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Thus, all the playoff success!


Great job Front Office, you're doing amazing.

 

[buybuydandavis]

By the same token, we took a LB coming off a gruesome injury in the 2nd while SEA happily snapped up interior DLiner Jarron Reed, who BTW had 10 sacks last year at DT. Stupid.

Calculated risk. Kind of odd to take Jaylon, given the apparent sell out for the Romo window on the first pick. Instead of a strategic vision, looked like "one for my vision, one for yours".
Another risky pick at LB in 2018 with LVE.

But in 2018, it looked like it was going to work out. Plenty of talk about having the best LB duo in the league in the near future.

This year, not so much talk like that.

Cowboys Top Defensive Picks
2016 Jaylon 1st
2017 LVE 2nd
2018 Taco 1st
2019 Hill 2nd

Just brutal.

 

[blueblood70]

I am not disagreeing with the idea they made some good draft picks, but at the end of the day, if the players are not able to stay on the field, it does not matter how great they are.

• Tyron -- injured and missed games in multiple seasons
• Frederick -- non-football injury and missed entire season; retired much earlier than expected
• Dez -- injured foot and missed games; many say he was never the same afterwards
• Dak -- injured and missed most of this season
• Zach -- injured and missed games this season
• Zeke -- suspended for 6 games in one season; missed a game due to injury this season
• LVE -- injured and missed games in multiple seasons
• Lee -- injured and missed games in MOST seasons
• Schultz -- kept on the sideline too long when starting Witten who was no longer better
• Hitchens (starting for Chiefs) -- injured and missed games
• Damien Wilson (starting for Chiefs) -- injured and missed games

worst reply ever to try and make an argument to counter a topic.. really the NFL and well sports in general, all have many , so many injuries' it would be hard to go through them all without wasting my time..

that cant be avoided and look around the league its running rapid all over to most teams.. you cant use that as a good or bad drafting team..most of those guys were not injury prone on college , injuries happen amnd wow zeke missed one game in 5 years and you bring that up? the six game suspension was sham then and bigger sham not because we have seen RG give out far less punishments for worse infractions. But hey want to show how big a hater of the joneses you are reaching hard, well keep up the good work..

 

[blueblood70]

There’s been crazy and negative speculation on here as it regards the front office. Why do people here think:

1) Jerry is still the day to day GM?
2) The team has been bad at drafting?

Jerry is only involved in the big decisions. And even then it’s to give his stamp of approval. Stephen is the one actually making the day to day decisions and even then it’s guys like Will McClay for player scouting and others that do contracts doing most of the work. It wasn’t Stephen or Jerry that did Zekes contract. It was some other guy who I don’t recall his name.

As for drafting the Cowboys have been pretty good relative to the rest of the league. Yes thereve been misses but every team has them.

In the last 10 years the team has drafted:

Tyron
Frederick
Dez
Dak
Zach
DLaw
Byron
Zeke
CD
Diggs
Gallup
Pollard
LVE
Lee
Murray
Schultz
Dwayne Harris (still in the league 9 years later)
Crawford (still in league 8 years later)
Hitchens (starting for Chiefs)
Damien Wilson (starting for Chiefs)
Traded a 1 for Coop

Overall they’ve drafted 13 pro bowlers which is an average of 1.3 per draft and will probably be more in a few years with at least CD and Diggs.

If you’re going to average 1 pro bowler every draft and numerous starters that will play 8-9 years you’re doing your job. Find me how many pro bowlers over 10 years other teams have drafted. I’d imagine Dallas is in the top 10 in the league in that.

The player personnel has been pretty good. I’d say poor coaching on defense and bad luck is the reason the team hasn’t gotten to NFC title games the last 10 years. DeMarcos fumble in 2014 in GB and the 3rd down bomb from Rodgers in 2016.

Defensively the scheme has never complimented the offense and was a liability in the playoffs in 2018 and all season in 2019. This year it’s just all over the place between coaches and players.

If I had to grade the front office on player personnel, I’d say a B+ and that’s mainly due to handling of contracts not the talent they bring in. The biggest error they made was trying to use Jaylons one good season as leverage against Zeke in training camp in 2019. Shouldn’t have extended him. They also gave Marinelli way too much input in the draft. Cost them Taco and Trysten. But the Patriots miss with WRs in the 1st round all the time so mistakes happen everywhere. Their drafted WRs since like 2010 have 183 total catches in the league on a graphic Fox showed a few weeks ago.

Stop taking the easy road and saying the FO is trash. Because reality is their among the best in talent acquisition, probably below average on contracts and average in evaluating coaches. The rest of the league minus New England and Kansas City have all the same complaints about who wears their headset. Even Sean Payton went 7-9 3 straight years.

good post and you knew when you hit send the top jones boy 25year narrative crowd would come running like moths to fire to rip you apart..

 

[Reality]

worst reply ever to try and make an argument to counter a topic.. really the NFL and well sports in general, all have many , so many injuries' it would be hard to go through them all without wasting my time..

that cant be avoided and look around the league its running rapid all over to most teams.. you cant use that as a good or bad drafting team..most of those guys were not injury prone on college , injuries happen amnd wow zeke missed one game in 5 years and you bring that up? the six game suspension was sham then and bigger sham not because we have seen RG give out far less punishments for worse infractions. But hey want to show how big a hater of the joneses you are reaching hard, well keep up the good work..

So pointing out facts without any opinions is "worst reply ever" in your opinion ..

I think that shows a lot of people here how credible your opinions are

 

[RS12]

After 25 years I think we know the truth.

 

[blueblood70]

So pointing out facts without any opinions is "worst reply ever" in your opinion ..

I think that shows a lot of people here how credible your opinions are

i stand by my post, there would be much shorter list on which teams players that never get inured then your ridiculous example to shame the joneses..all GMS have issues with injuries' on rosters yearly.like i said would take hours listing all the nfl layers on IR or who have missed games on every team and use them to show how bad GM was. That not barometer of good or bad gm and your obvious hate for the jonses was evident in the statement..

 

[KingintheNorth]

25year narrative

Is 25 years really a "narrative" though?

I mean it's 25 years.

25.

Two and a half decades.

One quarter century.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

The GM and his crap house staff are busy trying to shovel more crap to hide their incompetence. The only thing that matters is championships and as it stands this team hasn’t come close to winning anything in 26 years. Who the hell cares about pro bowl? Not even the NFL players view it in any serious light.

 

[Miller]

Well as I said to start, Jerry isn’t the day to day GM anymore.

The front office is not perfect but when it comes to getting good players in the building, they’re pretty good at that. It’s when you have to pay them that becomes the problem.

Here is my issue. The Pro Bowl is a joke. We may have guys voted in there but overall only a few of these guys are in that discussion yr to yr. The front offices failure is their ability to control players with the right coaches and atmosphere. It’s a country club. You can’t say they have done a good job with player acquisition and talent and then not have any sustainable winning teams or playoff runs. That means the FO is a) ruining the talent with their coaching hires b) the talent isn’t as stated or c) the FO creates an environment where losing is acceptable. They have a lot of issues that come at their feet when you haven’t won a thing in 25 yrs. It’s just fact. Everything out of that sots mouth undermines winning

 

[blueblood70]

Is 25 years really a "narrative" though?

I mean it's 25 years.

25.

Two and a half decades.

One quarter century.

so has nothing to do with the current team or the new coaches , they change so often you cant keep hanging onto it as if its ONE 25 year of the same things, new players, coaches and opponents .. there are many teams that took longer KC took 50years to get to anther one, Reid won his friot in how many years as HC? took 15years and generational freak talent of Mahomes to do it....that twice as much you got it 25x2 4 and half decades..took Philly 60years to win their first, thats 6 decades got it?..some teams have never won won or has ha just as ling drought..

heck brown's havent even been to playoff game in what 15 years hasn't won division in had how many losing seasons?
come on the jones arent the issue its just very hard to win SBs or championships..

get over it its not groundhog dat became all the names have changed ..

but hey be "THAT FAN" keeping up with garbage narratives to target the things you dont like..That Fan who not even 16 game into their first season already wants new HC after screaming for the other one to be fired.. you guys are never happy so hey keep it up Garett's clapping for ya..

No im not happy about the drought but dont feel the need to dwell on it.. each year is unique and new..

 

[Bobhaze]

Well as I said to start, Jerry isn’t the day to day GM anymore.

The front office is not perfect but when it comes to getting good players in the building, they’re pretty good at that. It’s when you have to pay them that becomes the problem.

You make some good points in this thread about the drafting here. But- There’s a difference between getting good players and building a great team. Big difference. No doubt the Jones FO has drafted some excellent players, (as you well documented) many of whom still play in the NFL. But drafting good players is only part of the equation.

Before you draft a single player, you have to know what kind of team you are trying to build. Otherwise you can draft a ton of talent but they end up being ill fitting pieces of a puzzle that has no design. That’s one of the huge problems with the last 25 years. Talent has often been there. Culture, cohesion, purpose and commitment to a single vision has escaped the Jones boys despite season after season of chances to learn. Sadly, despite Jerry’s brilliance at business, he’s a fool at football.

And it doesn’t matter if JJ is no longer making all the daily decisions. Make no mistake. He’s still making all the big decisions. Until he learns to stop undermining his own team with his big mouth and clueless flailing year after without a clear plan for what he’s trying to build, we can expect mediocre football. Some drafted talent, but more of a fantasy football team than a real football team.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

. each year is unique and new

Jerry Jones has been the GM for this entire drought, so no we are not unique or new.