TLH: Tape Shows Why Tony Romo Is Elite

[Red Dragon]

Oh dear, this thread isn't going to go well, just like 500 of the other Romo threads didn't go well.


I mean, great thread, and I agree with the OP, but this is just going to devolve into the usual argue-about-Romo quarrel, if it hasn't already.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

And a year from now this debate still will be going on. If you're elite, there is no debate.

 

[Reality]

does not matter what you post; the haters will never believe. Romo would have to be the SB MVP three years in a row for them to shut up.

Until he threw his first interception, tipped or not, next season

/reality

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

And a year from now this debate still will be going on. If you're elite, there is no debate.

Romo could win 5 Super Bowl's in a row and the bashers would still never "forgive" him for the past "chokes" in do or die or elimination games.

 

[big dog cowboy]

The big problem is your expectations.

What do you expect of a QB who is playing behind a weak OL, facing a fierce blitzing team, no running game, less than 3 minutes on the clock and missing his #1, #2 and #3 WRs. Moreover, he was playing again with broken ribs.

Yes, it'd have been great if he could have pulled a rabbit of his butt like he did against SF in 2011 when Dez and Romo were out and he hit Jesse Holley with the winner in OT. But I don't think any QB had much of a chance under those circumstances to be successful.

or

 

[Clove]

Being great doesn't constantly take convincing. It shatters all doubt naturally.

 

[Califan007]

I can't believe you guys really give a **** either way, to be honest.

Who cares if Romo falls in the catetory of "elite" or "very good" or "upper tier" or "2nd tier" or "franchise QB" or any other label. Win the division, and win in the playoffs, and you really won't care what Romo's label is lol.

This constant need to make sure everyone views Romo as an elite QB is a waste of time. If Romo had retired and was eligible to be voted into the HOF, then I could see the importance of whether or not he should be considered "elite".

 

[Zordon]

I can't believe you guys really give a **** either way, to be honest.

Who cares if Romo falls in the catetory of "elite" or "very good" or "upper tier" or "2nd tier" or "franchise QB" or any other label. Win the division, and win in the playoffs, and you really won't care what Romo's label is lol.

This constant need to make sure everyone views Romo as an elite QB is a waste of time. If Romo had retired and was eligible to be voted into the HOF, then I could see the importance of whether or not he should be considered "elite".

I agree it's sad.

 

[KJJ]

Thats the problem.

ND21 and Eskimo have put forth solid arguments based on objective data, yet its ignored by many here who "know better." All the Romo discussions here boil down to 2 perspectives.

Perspective #1 - facts, reality, reason and what is.

Perspective #2 - whatever an individual decides he wants to see and acknowledge, viewed thru his OWN perspective of life, the world and football, and all objectivity and reality is thrown out the window.

Eskimo started his post by doing what a lot of FANS here do make excuses for Romo. Here's his quote "What do you expect of a QB who is playing behind a weak OL, facing a fierce blitzing team, no running game, less than 3 minutes on the clock and missing his #1, #2 and #3 WRs. Moreover, he was playing again with broken ribs." No mention that Romo was going up against a rookie QB who was playing on one leg. Every season it's the same thing FANS making excuses for Romo's ill-timed mistakes. Romo had cracked ribs and a punctured lung 2 years ago vs SF in week 2 but that didn't stop him from making the game winning play.

No one is saying it's all Romo's fault that the Cowboys keep coming up short or that every single miscue is all on him regardless of those who's agenda is spin and twist everyones comments that way. Determining if a QB is a franchise QB or an elite QB comes down to each fan and experts definition of what they consider to be a franchise or elite QB. The reality is that Tony Romo has proven over a 7 year period that he's a franchise QB and it's not even debatable.

His consistent regular season numbers and the fact he makes the Cowboys a team to contend with every year makes him a franchise QB. The Cowboys would have had nothing to play for in the season finale last Dec without Romo.

Until he has playoff success he'll never be considered an "elite" QB by "most." If you or someone else has an issue with any opinion I have of Romo bring your "stats" and "facts" to the table along my "quotes" and see if you can shoot holes in anything I've said. That's my challenge to you and anyone else who has an issue with any of my opinions of Romo.

If you want to argue that's fine but no games bring the stats, facts and QUOTES to the table or don't waste my time. Don't come at me if you're going to come up with lame excuses to back out when you realize that the ammo you thought you brought was actually blanks. Don't engage with me if you can't back up anything you say or can't answer a few tough questions it will just leave you looking for a way out.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Romo could win 5 Super Bowl's in a row and the bashers would still never "forgive" him for the past "chokes" in do or die or elimination games.

That's hogwash. If he wins one SB, I would put him up there with Aikman and Staubach and I've been very critical of him. I think the whole debate is stupid anyway. Who cares? All I care about is playoff wins. If he wants to be considered a great QB, then he has to win in the playoffs. That is where a QB's legacy is made.

 

[KJJ]

Romo could win 5 Super Bowl's in a row and the bashers would still never "forgive" him for the past "chokes" in do or die or elimination games.

It's those kind of comments that makes it very difficult to take some people seriously here. Can't imagine anyone honestly believing that. One SB win would erase all the bad.

 

[DanteEXT]

Romo had cracked ribs and a punctured lung 2 years ago vs SF in week 2 but that didn't stop him from making the game winning play.

Romo kicked the FG in OT?

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Determining if a QB is a franchise QB or an elite QB comes down to each fan and experts definition of what they consider to be a franchise or elite QB. The reality is that Tony Romo has proven over a 7 year period that he's a franchise QB and it's not even debatable.

Wow, for the master debater and #1 argument winner here on CZ that YOU yourself claim to be it looks like you shot blanks on this one with the SPIN. Contradict yourself much?

Which is it "each fan and experts definition" of what they consider to be a franchise or elite QB - or, is it your dogmatic pronouncement which isnt even debatable? It cant be both.

You say anybody that wants to come at you, or your opinions (and thats all you have BTW) better bring "stats" and "facts" or dont waste your time. Bro you got it backwards. There is no need for anybody here to "debate" you as you call it, because we all know the stats and facts dont matter to you unless they are the "stats" or "facts" you choose to SPIN to fit your agenda. You made that clear in the NON-DEBATABLE 7 year Romo comment.

You said Eskimo made excuses for Romo. The issue isnt "excuses." The issue is reality and the validity of what he said. You blow it off as "excuses" so you dont have to deal with the reality of the truth he posted. You claim you want "stats" and "facts" and yet when you are confronted with just that you blow smoke and SPIN away.

You tell me I'm delusional and that you get numerous congratulatory pms from other posters on how bad you make people look with your brilliant posts. Are they part of your 8 million online daily followers? No matter who the congratulators are, if any even exist, they are either misguided or lacking in the ability to process information and discern what's meaningful.

 

[Eskimo]

Until he has playoff success he'll never be considered an "elite" QB by "most." If you or someone else has an issue with any opinion I have of Romo bring your "stats" and "facts" to the table along my "quotes" and see if you can shoot holes in anything I've said. That's my challenge to you and anyone else who has an issue with any of my opinions of Romo.

I really don't know what the criteria are to be elite. It is a very subective term and it probably means different things to different people.

My point is only that many here really blame Romo for all this team's failings. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are - if the Cowboys don't win it is Romo's fault. They want us to throw him out and start over with someone else, perhaps even anyone else. Maybe even with one of those guys that just went in the 4th round like Matt Barkley. But just someone else since Romo is a loser and choker and the cause for the team's failures.

It is those people who I speak up against.

If your opinion is that Romo isn't as good as say Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady and Drew Brees then I don't think most Romo supporters have an issue saying he hasn't proven himself to be on their level yet.

Our counter is we think he is good enough to lead a good team to the SB. He has led us to victories against most of the best teams and QBs in the league including Peyton, Eli, Matt Ryan, Mike Vick, Drew Brees, Cam Newton and Brett Favre.

It is very hard to find a better QB than Tony Romo. Anyone who has a better one (namely one of the 4 I mentioned earlier) doesn't want to trade them. It is very rare for a better one to come available in the draft and they usually go in the top 5 picks of the draft. Unless you are already picking in the top 10 it is too expensive to trade up for one and if you guess wrong with such a move you set your franchise way, way back. So there really isn't any easy way to get a QB who is likely to be better than Romo.

Rather than worry about improving at QB it makes far more sense to try and upgrade the rest of the team which has clear deficiencies which this next elite QB would have difficulty overcoming. At best a QB probably represents about 1/6th of the value of a team. That still means there is 5/6ths that you can try and strengthen. Those players are readily available in every draft and in vet FA. You have to pick wisely and you have to have first-rate player developmental programs. You have to have a good set of coaches who use their personnel well.

So in the end I don't write so much to try and prove Romo is elite to everyone.

I write because I think Romo is our best chance to win for the forseeable future and with a good team around him he is good enough to lead us to a Super Bowl win.

 

[zack]

Is Payton elite - didn't get the job done against the Ravens.

Is Flacco elite because the Broncos Safety blew his coverage responsibility.

Is Brady not elite because he got beat by Flacco?

Is Rogers not elite because he has been beaten two consecutive playoffs despite being surrounded by excellent offensive players and a good defense headed by Dom Capers and Clay Matthews?

Tony Romo has come through in many late game situations. He didn't last year because his team was wiped out. It's as simple as that. Sometimes the guys across from you are just better than you are no matter how good your QB is.

The last time I checked Payton Manning is widely considered elite and his brother isn't but he has won only one SB while his brother has won two. This is despite the fact Payton has been in the league about 6 more years and has made the playoffs several more times than Eli has. Could it have something to do with the team around them since Eli won with two defenses that were dominant in the playoffs?

The bottom line is that it is a team game and the QB is the most important player on the field on offense but he can't do it alone and he contributes virtually nothing to special teams and defense. I figure a QB might account for 20% of a team's chances of winning a game. 42.5% to the defense, 42.5% to the offense and about 15% to special teams. On the offensive side the QB contributes little to the running offense which is 45% of the snaps and probably about 25% of the offensive output. Now of the remaining 75% of the offense a portion goes to the OL, a portion goes to the receivers and a portion goes to the QB. Let's say the QB gets 1/2 of the credit and the other half will be split between OL and the receivers. I honestly think I'm a bit generous here to the QB in saying that the running game is only 25% responsible for the offensive output and that the QB fully accounts for as much of the success of the passing offense as the OL and receivers combined. That is 1 guy is as important as the other 10 on the field. I've never seen anyone give up 10 starters for 1 QB but let's just say it's true.

This then gives the QB's portion of the success of the team as 0.5 * 0.75 * 0.425 or about 16% or 1/6th.

Now for validation of this 1/6th number what portion of a team's cap are the best QB's presently occupying. To me it seems it is around $20M of a $120M cap or about 1/6th.

So that still leaves another 5/6ths of the team that accounts for the wins and losses.

It is a team game and the QB is a small part of it. Romo is doing his share and it is time to put the other 5/6ths of the team around him in shape so that we can win games.

I'm not hung up on elite or not elite. I know he is better than Eli, Big Ben and Flacco but those teams won when they had good teams around those guys. I know Brady and Peyton have been the best in the team for a long time but in the last 9 years they only have 1 SB between them. If you throw in Brees you got 2/9. If you throw in Rogers and Favre you've got 3/9. So arguably the 5 best QBs of the last decade have only accounted for 3 of the SB wins. You know why - it is a team game.

So while I agree with most that Romo isn't the best QB in the league. I think he's every bit as good as many QBs who have had a SB victory in the last decade. The problem here has been the GM/HC combo hasn't built a roster good enough to win the SB except maybe the 2007 season which was derailed by TO's injury in week 16.

I think this team might be good enough to get there this year. It largely depends on how we do with the new OL and the enhanced commitment to the zone blocking scheme and the new 4-3 defense being installed by Kiffin/Marinelli and what they manage to do with the aged DL and young Safeties.

Great post! I concur with a lot of what you had to say. Nicely done.

 

[KJJ]

Romo kicked the FG in OT?

His TD throw got them to OT. Did the kicker get the credit for the win?

 

[KJJ]

Wow, for the master debater and #1 argument winner here on CZ that YOU yourself claim to be it looks like you shot blanks on this one with the SPIN. Contradict yourself much?

Which is it "each fan and experts definition" of what they consider to be a franchise or elite QB - or, is it your dogmatic pronouncement which isnt even debatable? It cant be both.

You say anybody that wants to come at you, or your opinions (and thats all you have BTW) better bring "stats" and "facts" or dont waste your time. Bro you got it backwards. There is no need for anybody here to "debate" you as you call it, because we all know the stats and facts dont matter to you unless they are the "stats" or "facts" you choose to SPIN to fit your agenda. You made that clear in the NON-DEBATABLE 7 year Romo comment.

You said Eskimo made excuses for Romo. The issue isnt "excuses." The issue is reality and the validity of what he said. You blow it off as "excuses" so you dont have to deal with the reality of the truth he posted. You claim you want "stats" and "facts" and yet when you are confronted with just that you blow smoke and SPIN away.

You tell me I'm delusional and that you get numerous congratulatory pms from other posters on how bad you make people look with your brilliant posts. Are they part of your 8 million online daily followers? No matter who the congratulators are, if any even exist, they are either misguided or lacking in the ability to process information and discern what's meaningful.

Show me a post where I claimed to be the #1 argument winner on CZ? I challenge you to produce a QUOTE where I said anything even remotely close to that. Jodi Arias is more credible than some here. LOL You're back at it again doing what you always do posting bull just to incite another flame war. Where's the stats, facts and quotes I asked you to bring? As usual you don't have any but here you are continuing to try and stir things up between us.

You keep starting the same thing over and over knock off the agenda As for Eskimo speak for yourself not other posters. Stop pointing at me trying to make it personal all the time. I'm here to talk serious football with serious knowledgeable fans. All you're doing is diverting just do as I asked or move on. Either post my QUOTES and address them or I'm not going to waste much more time with you. It's not doing us or this board any good.

 

[KJJ]

I really don't know what the criteria are to be elite. It is a very subective term and it probably means different things to different people.

It's all based on opinion but most consider QB's who win consistently from year to year and have won championships as elite QB's. Romo has elite skills but there's a difference between having elite skills and being an elite player. For a QB to be considered an elite player they have to have had some playoff success. QB's are judged by how they perform in elimination games this is where they earn their skins.

My point is only that many here really blame Romo for all this team's failings. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are - if the Cowboys don't win it is Romo's fault.

Well I'm not one of the many no matter how much some of my haters here try and spin it.

They want us to throw him out and start over with someone else, perhaps even anyone else. Maybe even with one of those guys that just went in the 4th round like Matt Barkley. But just someone else since Romo is a loser and choker and the cause for the team's failures.

I'm well aware of that I was in a lengthy thread right after the season defending Romo against those who had reached the end of their rope with him. Many wanted someone else but to the dismay of my haters I wasn't one of them.

If your opinion is that Romo isn't as good as say Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady and Drew Brees then I don't think most Romo supporters have an issue saying he hasn't proven himself to be on their level yet.

That would be my opinion but there's those who've had problems with that opinion of mine. LOL

Our counter is we think he is good enough to lead a good team to the SB. He has led us to victories against most of the best teams and QBs in the league including Peyton, Eli, Matt Ryan, Mike Vick, Drew Brees, Cam Newton and Brett Favre.

No question his "physical" game is good enough to lead the Cowboys to the SB and win it it's his "mental" game that I question. It's what he has going on between the ears that's holding him back in my opinion. It's not about whether he can lead the Cowboys to victories over the QB's you've mentioned but Vick is the only one he's beaten in an elimination game. I'm not worried about him beating Vick in make or break games Philly isn't going anywhere with Vick I'm worried about him beating Eli and RG3 in make or break games. Romo is 0-3 against them in elimination games.

It is very hard to find a better QB than Tony Romo.

I totally agree which is why I argued in favor of resigning him. Once his career is over it's not going to be easy finding a QB who can produce like him. The fans who wanted to move on from him are crazy because productive QB's like Romo don't come around everyday. You can draft a QB in the top 10 and never get a QB like Romo we've seen it recently with Ponder, Gabbert and Jake Locker.

 

[jobberone]

Let's discuss Tony and not each other please. Some are taking exception when none has been given. Others are throwing rocks at each other. Don't.

Tony generally is at the top of the league's QBs in comebacks and wins in the 4th quarter and he was last year with 5 each. So I don't know where this Tony can't produce in the clutch comes from. I realize the fan frustration of not playing in a SB since 1995. You just cannot lay all at the feet of Tony Romo.

In fact I'd say the only real complaint against Tony is he has propped the team up to the point they are playing .500 ball or better instead of periodically falling on their face which at least gets you a top ten pick. We would have several of those instead of one and the team would look different.

If you want to blame a single person then Jerry is your target.

Me I don't like to point fingers. I'd rather spend my energy and resources solving problems that are pragmatically possible. (read you can't fire Jerry or Stephen)

 

[DFWJC]

Let's discuss Tony and not each other please. Some are taking exception when none has been given. Others are throwing rocks at each other. Don't.

Tony generally is at the top of the league's QBs in comebacks and wins in the 4th quarter and he was last year with 5 each. So I don't know where this Tony can produce in the clutch comes from. I realize the fan frustration of not playing in a SB since 1995. You just cannot lay all at the feet of Tony Romo.

In fact I'd say the only real complaint against Tony is he has propped the team up to the point they are playing .500 ball or better instead of periodically falling on their face which at least gets you a top ten pick. We would have several of those instead of one and the team would look different.

If you want to blame a single person then Jerry is your target.

Me I don't like to point fingers. I'd rather spend my energy and resources solving problems that are pragmatically possible. (read you can't fire Jerry or Stephen)

That sums it up well, IMO.

As for this elite stuff...whatever.
I'm not sure what defines elite. I know that I don't yet put Romo up there with guys like Brady or Rodgers, that's for sure. But few out there can hope for that.

For me, the bottom line is whether or not the Cowboys' QB is good enough to win a Super Bowl with. In that regard, I have no doubt whatsoever that we do.