Today in Dallas Cowboys History - Dez Caught It!

[MarcusRock]

I don't need too. I agree he went to the ground. After making a football move. If anyone thinks the ball came loose then it was a fumble just as Aikman said on the broadcast. Lol.

So you admit Dez was going to the ground. Perfect.

If you knew the rule, you'd know the only football move he could possibly make instead of going to the ground was to "gather himself," per the rules, and lunge forward. When he didn't do that with his 3rd step slipping then he needed to hold onto the ball if it hit the ground. Did he? We know he didn't. So, absent of a football move while going to the ground (there was only one he could make), it's incomplete if the ball hits the ground and comes out of his possession. Again, did it? We know it did.

Just so you know how you hamstrung yourself in this, per the rules then, a player is considered either upright or going to the ground. One or the other. If Dez was upright as everyone here needs him to be then why didn't he just run into the end zone? If he was upright then he could do everything listed in part (c) of the catch rule (pitch it, tuck it, ward off an opponent) for upright receivers. But because he was going to the ground, its rules apply for that same part of the catch rule as I covered and is the path almost everyone here wants to avoid. But if you admit he was going to the ground then that's the path you have chosen. See how easy that was?

You need to read up on the broadcast too. Neither Aikman or Buck opined on what it was or wasn't and they brought in Pereira after the commercial during review who said it was incomplete even before Steratore announced it. Watch the video below from the 14:00 mark.

 

[McKDaddy]

So you admit Dez was going to the ground.

not in order to make the catch. that is the key distinction so many can't comprehend. going to the ground AFTER meeting the time, control & football move criteria is part of being a runner.

 

[Amarth]

So you admit Dez was going to the ground. Perfect.

If you knew the rule, you'd know the only football move he could possibly make instead of going to the ground was to "gather himself," per the rules, and lunge forward. When he didn't do that with his 3rd step slipping then he needed to hold onto the ball if it hit the ground. Did he? We know he didn't. So, absent of a football move while going to the ground (there was only one he could make), it's incomplete if the ball hits the ground and comes out of his possession. Again, did it? We know it did.

Just so you know how you hamstrung yourself in this, per the rules then, a player is considered either upright or going to the ground. One or the other. If Dez was upright as everyone here needs him to be then why didn't he just run into the end zone? If he was upright then he could do everything listed in part (c) of the catch rule (pitch it, tuck it, ward off an opponent) for upright receivers. But because he was going to the ground, its rules apply for that same part of the catch rule as I covered and is the path almost everyone here wants to avoid. But if you admit he was going to the ground then that's the path you have chosen. See how easy that was?

You need to read up on the broadcast too. Neither Aikman or Buck opined on what it was or wasn't and they brought in Pereira after the commercial during review who said it was incomplete even before Steratore announced it. Watch the video below from the 14:00 mark.

You school these guys every time it comes up yet they refuse to budge on their stance even with no legitimate rebuttal. Eventually they just stop responding or say “well you’re wrong” without any legitimate explanation. It’s actually hilarious but sad at the same time, they just can’t let it go or admit it wasn’t a catch.

 

[Beaker42]

January 11, 2015. Dez caught it! Lots of debate about if the Cowboys would have won and we will never know. But one thing we do know. Dez caught it. Hard to believe it's been 11 years already.

100% a catch. Blandino can eat a bag of dixxxx.

 

[Beaker42]

Like or not, Per the rules of the day it was incomplete pass all day long as the NFL rules guru explained it during the broadcast...

Ground cannot cause a fumble, THEN OR NOW…….

 

[MarcusRock]

not in order to make the catch. that is the key distinction so many can't comprehend. going to the ground AFTER meeting the time, control & football move criteria is part of being a runner.

You don't complete a catch 7 feet in the air. That's why you didn't mention 2 feet. Because with every step Dez made, it was downward to the ground until he ended up horizontal to the ground. That was the point of the going to the ground rule in the first place. If he was upright he should have just run into the endzone. Why didn't he? Because he was going to the ground. There's a rule for that, hence the call.

 

[MarcusRock]

You school these guys every time it comes up yet they refuse to budge on their stance even with no legitimate rebuttal. Eventually they just stop responding or say “well you’re wrong” without any legitimate explanation. It’s actually hilarious but sad at the same time, they just can’t let it go or admit it wasn’t a catch.

Such is the way of the world today. Yap about a rule you don't know but also don't engage with someone who actually does know because ...... they know. Then when shown wrong, just hold on to what you now know is a falsehood but never, ever admit it. I only do it for the people who seriously want to know how those rules worked back then. There's a few who get it and accept it. But you know how the herd works. They fear the "you can't sit with us at lunch" childhood trauma otherwise known as "you're not a real fan." Lol.

 

[The Quest for Six]

Ground cannot cause a fumble, THEN OR NOW…….

The NFL rules official in the video clearly explains the rule of the day and why it was overturned.....no football move and didn't maintain control of the football throughout the process...incomplete!!

 

[gtb1943]

The NFL rules official in the video clearly explains the rule of the day and why it was overturned.....no football move and didn't maintain control of the football throughout the process...incomplete!!

football move to me is the most idiotic part of the rule

 

[gtb1943]

You don't complete a catch 7 feet in the air. That's why you didn't mention 2 feet. Because with every step Dez made, it was downward to the ground until he ended up horizontal to the ground. That was the point of the going to the ground rule in the first place. If he was upright he should have just run into the endzone. Why didn't he? Because he was going to the ground. There's a rule for that, hence the call.

I have yet to hear a single player ever say that was not a catch
all that you just quoted is like a lawyer trying to get the guilty guy off
on a technicality

 

[MarcusRock]

I have yet to hear a single player ever say that was not a catch
all that you just quoted is like a lawyer trying to get the guilty guy off
on a technicality

Who cares what players think? It's not their job to interpret the rules, only to know what to avoid so they don't mess up.

Fans not understanding the rules is also part of why I think they changed it. Even the sock puppet explanations weren't working.

 

[DallasEast]

I think I've seen every angle. For me, he could have been spinning it on his fingertip like a basketball (yes, I'm exagerating). There was no reason for him to expect contact. I'm pretty sure I've seen Emmitt discuss the play and agree that Murray was fine, just a tremendous play by a tremendous player.

I just think that sometimes you have to give the other team credit rather than assign blame.

I have given Julius Peppers full credit for creating the turnover through the years here on CowboysZone. With full respect to Emmitt Smith, it does not change what happened. Demarco Murray himself (link/bottom video) 'We made mistakes' during the game, but only acknowledged Peppers' effort only for causing the turnover. It was what it was:

Carry hand/fingers not covering the top of the ball fully/ball not tucked tightly into the elbow and chest -

The ball was not secured as fully as possible, which is why I totally agree he was not expecting contact. Of course, the defense is always waiting to cause a turnover throughout every game, so Murray's 2014 regular and postseason was an understandable six-fumble stage in his career.

I added the following gif for others (not you of course) who may wonder or forgotten exactly how wide of a hole the offensive line created for Murray (especially by Zack Martin) to run through. The still image I posted earlier does not really do it complete justice.

Murray was a great back and Dallas was fortunate to have him.

 

[McKDaddy]

You don't complete a catch 7 feet in the air. That's why you didn't mention 2 feet. Because with every step Dez made, it was downward to the ground until he ended up horizontal to the ground. That was the point of the going to the ground rule in the first place. If he was upright he should have just run into the endzone. Why didn't he? Because he was going to the ground. There's a rule for that, hence the call.

not claiming the catch was that the top of the jump. but when you change from two hands to your shoulder to protect it as you land you have demonstrated full control of the ball. his feet touched down so how is that not two feet with control? why wouldn't the changing of ball then to his right hand to a normal "carrying" the ball position not be considered a football move? or the lunge because of the entanglement?

he could have landed and probably stayed on his feet coming to a stop or at worst gently dropping onto the defender without lungin. in hindsight yes, that would have been the better option. the competitor in him was trying to score so he was preparing to go toward the end zone even before landing. you conveniently forget the defender who is sprawled on the ground with arms & legs flailing and affecting his ability to "just run into the end zone". if the defender had not been tangled with his legs do you have any doubt he would have went into the end zone upright?

the rule was never intended for these plays. it was intended for diving, sliding plays (hence the "going to the ground" where it was almost impossible to officiate whether they had caught the ball cleanly or trapped the ball.

net result is that over interpretation, misinterpretation & misapplication of the rule robbed not only Dez but other players of great plays. so much so that the league admitted it's mistake and again re-wrote the rules.

 

[McKDaddy]

Carry hand/fingers not covering the top of the ball fully/ball not tucked tightly into the elbow and chest

I understand your point .... I just don't see it as being bad position\security & more importantly Peppers got the perfect angle & timing. Even if tighter, I think he gets it out.

Only way I give him a chance of holding on is if left arm & hand are also protecting it. I think it would be very rare for any RB to be holding with both hands the way the play was unfolding.

Thanks for posting everything though. It is better when things can be demonstrated with pictures, video.

 

[DUO_CORE]

"Gimmee 3 steps gimmee 3 steps Mr. gimmee 3 steps for the score"!

 

[MarcusRock]

not claiming the catch was that the top of the jump. but when you change from two hands to your shoulder to protect it as you land you have demonstrated full control of the ball. his feet touched down so how is that not two feet with control? why wouldn't the changing of ball then to his right hand to a normal "carrying" the ball position not be considered a football move? or the lunge because of the entanglement?

Control and 2 feet are not disputed. But a receiver is considered one or the other: upright or going to the ground. If the latter, you obey that rule instead of part (c) of the catch rule (for upright players). So tucking, pitching, turning upfield, none of that matters anymore. And how can one "turn upfield" while jumping up in the air - this is how you know the rule was written for an upright player. So which was Dez?

he could have landed and probably stayed on his feet coming to a stop or at worst gently dropping onto the defender without lungin. in hindsight yes, that would have been the better option. the competitor in him was trying to score so he was preparing to go toward the end zone even before landing. you conveniently forget the defender who is sprawled on the ground with arms & legs flailing and affecting his ability to "just run into the end zone". if the defender had not been tangled with his legs do you have any doubt he would have went into the end zone upright?

The going to the ground rule doesn't care if a defender contacts you. He could have grabbed Dez in mid air and slammed him to the ground and it would still be considered going to the ground even if Dez "would have" landed on 2 feet.

the rule was never intended for these plays. it was intended for diving, sliding plays (hence the "going to the ground" where it was almost impossible to officiate whether they had caught the ball cleanly or trapped the ball.

Whether the rule was intended for other plays or was behind the times, the fact is at the time it covered this play.

 

[McKDaddy]

Control and 2 feet are not disputed. But a receiver is considered one or the other: upright or going to the ground. If the latter, you obey that rule instead of part (c) of the catch rule (for upright players). So tucking, pitching, turning upfield, none of that matters anymore. And how can one "turn upfield" while jumping up in the air - this is how you know the rule was written for an upright player. So which was Dez?


The going to the ground rule doesn't care if a defender contacts you. He could have grabbed Dez in mid air and slammed him to the ground and it would still be considered going to the ground even if Dez "would have" landed on 2 feet.


Whether the rule was intended for other plays or was behind the times, the fact is at the time it covered this play.

We are never going to agree.

 

[MarcusRock]

We are never going to agree.

I don't know how you expect to. I'm telling you what the rules are and the mechanics of how they operate and you're telling me what you think or what should be. This is the whole controversy in a nutshell. People not fully knowing the rules but thinking they can 'splain a way to a path that says it was a catch while leaving out the inconvenient parts.

 

[CowboysFever1973]

He caught it. I firmly believe the nfl rigged this game!!

 

[McKDaddy]

I don't know how you expect to. I'm telling you what the rules are and the mechanics of how they operate and you're telling me what you think or what should be. This is the whole controversy in a nutshell. People not fully knowing the rules but thinking they can 'splain a way to a path that says it was a catch while leaving out the inconvenient parts.

No, you are just parroting the interpretation the league used to justify the call.

And you are ignoring their own admission that it was interpreted incorrectly in Dez's case.

• The Admission: In February 2018, the NFL Competition Committee stated that plays like Bryant's should be ruled complete, acknowledging the rule was unclear.