Tom Brady suspension nullified

[slick325]

So Brady gets no games, despite the fact he deflated footballs?

Yep...I have no problem with it. The notice is flawed as the Judge pointed out.

 

[Sydla]

There's always been a punishment for crimes by the NFL that involved suspensions. Hardy's original 10 game suspension wasn't fair because his incident happened before the new player conduct policy was announced which led to a big reduction in his suspension. I just can't see his 4 game suspension being overturned.

The old policy was only 2 games for domestic violence.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Ahhh, now I see it. I think we are debating two separate things here.

My point all along has been what Brady did was a minor infraction. I am not arguing that he didn't break a rule. You are right, you break a rule, you break a rule. But that's not my real point. I am arguing your claim that this particular thing is bad for football. He broke a minor rule that really isn't going hurt the game of football like you claimed........... like how Vikings heating balls didn't or won't hurt the game or is bad for the game. Or if a guy wear's the wrong color spats or socks is technically breaking a rule but in the grand scheme of things. Some rules are minor rules that if broken are just farts in the wind........... this is one of those rules and I don't see how this is suddenly really bad for the sport.

My apologies if you misunderstood what I was saying.

It is bad for football because it speaks directly to the Commissioners authority to deal with issues that are at his discretion. Brady did wrong and he knew it. The Pats, as an organization were complicit. The League tried to lesson the penalty by having Brady simply admit to his involvement. This would have simply gone away, had he done that. Cheating is never good for the league but a judge ruling that the Commissioner can not deal with those transgressions as he sees fit only serves to weaken the league IMO. That's not good for the game.

 

[khiladi]

Yep...I have no problem with it. The notice is flawed as the Judge pointed out.

What notice? The punishment encompassed Brady potentially trying to cover it up... Where is the precedent in this, that Goodell has to follow?

 

[KJJ]

Which it will be. In the case of Hardy, they will look at what the past history dictated in cases such as this and they will rule accordingly. In past cases, the rule was 2 games. You are implying that I said no games, which I never said. You inferred that on your own. To add to this, the Court will take into consideration what has already transpired in this case. I don't think 4 games will stand up but I guess we will see.

Some here seem to think his suspension will be completely overturned that's what Hardy is shooting for so I assumed you were amongst that group. It's always possible that his suspension could be reduced to 2 games because that's what the original penalty was in cases like this prior to the new conduct policy.

 

[khiladi]

A ball that is easier to hold is less likely to be fumbled. There is no doubt of that. It doesn't matter if it does actually prevent a fumble or not. There is no way to know what would or would not have happened if a ball was properly inflated instead. If it can potentially prevent just one fumble in a season, it is HUGE, not minor.

Warren Sharp at www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/ has detailed this advantage in multiple articles. His last was in May of 2015, you can google it there with the date links on the right. I can't reference to it at work because of some filters. But the advantages are clear.

He even points out the issue of TOs as it relates to determining the outcomes of games. Teams that win the TO game have like a 70% win advantage if I can recall.

 

[khiladi]

Hardy couldn't play for a full season either. Where is the precedent in that?

 

[slick325]

What notice? The punishment encompassed Brady potentially trying to cover it up... Where is the precedent in this, that Goodell has to follow?

Read the Judge's opinion in its entirety. Very well written and straightforward IMHO. Particularly pg. 19. Pages 24, 27, 29 and 30 are very informative as well Khiladi.

 

[Sydla]

It is bad for football because it speaks directly to the Commissioners authority to deal with issues that are at his discretion. Brady did wrong and he knew it. The Pats, as an organization were complicit. The League tried to lesson the penalty by having Brady simply admit to his involvement. This would have simply gone away, had he done that. Cheating is never good for the league but a judge ruling that the Commissioner can not deal with those transgressions as he sees fit only serves to weaken the league IMO. That's not good for the game.

See I don't see it at all. The commissioner should not be able to deal with transgressions as he sees fit. He has to handle them in the manner and with the procedures set forth in the CBA. He can't just wake up in the morning and just pull crap out of his butt as to what this guy deserves and what that guy deserves. If you have an equipment rule, then punishments for violating that rule have to be consistent. You can't find out that the Panthers are heating cold balls to make them easier to grip and kick and just issue them a warning then turn around and throw the book at the Patriots for their manipulating the balls. How anyone can't see the inconsistency there and think that's a good thing is puzzling.

And the courts agree. The NFL owners/commissioner agreed to the CBA, so they have to live with the procedures and policies put in place. They can't haphazardly go about handling various issues of player/team discipline.

In fact, one could argue it's bad for football if Goodell is allowed to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

 

[khiladi]

NFL Media’s Ian Rapoport reported that New York Giants owner John Mara appeared at the latest hearing for Tom Brady’s suspension appeal at the request of Berman.

But why?

It actually makes quite a bit of sense. The case that was filed by the NFL in Judge Berman’s court listed just one party as the plaintiff: The National Football League Management Council. Roger Goodell is not the chairman of the NFL Management Council. John Mara is. So it makes sense that Berman would require the Giants owner to appear in federal court. He was on the paperwork, after all.

http://heavy.com/sports/2015/08/ric...gate-judge-roger-goodell-nfl-football-ruling/

 

[KJJ]

But that's the crux and has been shown to not be valid by a federal judge.

That the new policy can't be retroactively applied to crimes that happened under the old policy.

Then the best Hardy can hope for is 2 games because my argument is that his suspension will not be completely overturned like Brady's. Deflategate ventured into uncharted waters I'm sure most fans didn't even realize that footballs had to be inflated to a certain PSI reading. You would think the NFL would allow QB's to have footballs inflated to their own personal preference. Not every QB has the same size hands and a certain PSI reading could benefit some QB's and affect other QB's. The entire thing is really silly when you think about it.

 

[KJJ]

The old policy was only 2 games for domestic violence.

I know.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

See I don't see it at all. The commissioner should not be able to deal with transgressions as he sees fit. He has to handle them in the manner and with the procedures set forth in the CBA. He can't just wake up in the morning and just pull crap out of his butt as to what this guy deserves and what that guy deserves. If you have an equipment rule, then punishments for violating that rule have to be consistent. You can't find out that the Panthers are heating cold balls to make them easier to grip and kick and just issue them a warning then turn around and throw the book at the Patriots for their manipulating the balls. How anyone can't see the inconsistency there and think that's a good thing is puzzling.

And the courts agree. The NFL owners/commissioner agreed to the CBA, so they have to live with the procedures and policies put in place. They can't haphazardly go about handling various issues of player/team discipline.

In fact, one could argue it's bad for football if Goodell is allowed to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

I didn't say whatever he wants, whenever he wants. I said it's bad for the game to overturn what the CBA says he has authority over. Now, I will say this. I believe 100% that the NFL lost this case because of the crappy way the handled it. This case was theirs to lose and they did that. However, this sets pressidence for ruling going forward. I think it's important for a Commissioner to act within the stated rules because you never want, what just happened, to happen. You want to be able to act with impunity in such situations, if you are the Commish. It is a healthy thing for players to fear the power of the Commissioner. It is not a healthy thing for a Commissioner to act like a horses *** in matters such as this. In the case of Ray Rice, of AD, of Hardy, the Commissioner was completely wrong in how he dealt with discipline IMO. He was not wrong with Brady or the Pats IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Then the best Hardy can hope for is 2 games because my argument is that his suspension will not be completely overturned like Brady's. Deflategate ventured into uncharted waters I'm sure most fans didn't even realize that footballs had to be inflated to a certain PSI reading. You would think the NFL would allow QB's to have footballs inflated to their own personal preference. Not every QB has the same size hands and a certain PSI reading could benefit some QB's and affect other QB's. The entire thing is really silly when you think about it.

Not necessarily. There is a past to this case that will be considered. I think it will be two games but it could be less.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

This really comes down to Goodell's incompetence in handling suspensions and fines. Terrell Pryor was suspended for something he did in college which was not against the law and didn't affect the outcome of games...in college.

Then Ray Rice gets a 2-game suspension for clocking his fiancé.

There's just no consistency or reasoning in his past suspensions so one could always argue that deflating footballs doesn't deserve the punishment of 4-games when they doled out a 2-game suspension to Ray Rice or 1-game suspensions for DUI, etc.

But more importantly, all of this ties back to SpyGate and the commissioner's covering up of SpyGate and handing a weak penalty. The Patriots only lost their higher pick in the first round (they had the 10th overall pick from the Niners) and Belichick was fined $1 million and subsequently was given a new contract at an undisclosed figures 2-weeks later (aka, Kraft essentially paid off the fine).

Goodell had the perfect opportunity to drop the hammer because Belichick is not protected by a CBA. And this would have sent a message to the Patriots (and the rest of the league) that if you cheat in the NFL, the fine will be severe enough to make you reconsider doing it.

Instead, they got a slap on the wrist and Brady and Belichick had no problem with cheating again if it meant winning a Super Bowl. And Kraft was there to fully support them.

Now the league and the game is in a situation where teams should feel free to find ways to cheat because if they get caught, it will only result in a fine because the team and the player can just take the league to court. This is how popular sports like boxing and baseball saw a large dent in their popularity. Looks like football is next.





YR

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Not to pile on, but anyone who thought the NFL would win, clearly was biased. Maybe at the beginning, yea, but the judge was killing them every step of the way.

Agree. 100%

Then the bias changed.

 

[khiladi]

See I don't see it at all. The commissioner should not be able to deal with transgressions as he sees fit. He has to handle them in the manner and with the procedures set forth in the CBA. He can't just wake up in the morning and just pull crap out of his butt as to what this guy deserves and what that guy deserves. If you have an equipment rule, then punishments for violating that rule have to be consistent. You can't find out that the Panthers are heating cold balls to make them easier to grip and kick and just issue them a warning then turn around and throw the book at the Patriots for their manipulating the balls. How anyone can't see the inconsistency there and think that's a good thing is puzzling.

And the courts agree. The NFL owners/commissioner agreed to the CBA, so they have to live with the procedures and policies put in place. They can't haphazardly go about handling various issues of player/team discipline.

In fact, one could argue it's bad for football if Goodell is allowed to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

The Panthers heated footballs in open view, during the actual game and were warned and stopped. Brady did things in secret and behind closed doors, against league rules that he knew. And he further covered it up even after this incident. They are not in any way alike.

 

[Sydla]

I didn't say whatever he wants, whenever he wants. I said it's bad for the game to overturn what the CBA says he has authority over. Now, I will say this. I believe 100% that the NFL lost this case because of the crappy way the handled it. This case was theirs to lose and they did that. However, this sets pressidence for ruling going forward. I think it's important for a Commissioner to act within the stated rules because you never want, what just happened, to happen. You want to be able to act with impunity in such situations, if you are the Commish. It is a healthy thing for players to fear the power of the Commissioner. It is not a healthy thing for a Commissioner to act like a horses *** in matters such as this. In the case of Ray Rice, of AD, of Hardy, the Commissioner was completely wrong in how he dealt with discipline IMO. He was not wrong with Brady or the Pats IMO.

But he is wrong. His own actions, as mentioned in the filing, hurt him. He's handled past equipment violations with minor penalties. Precedent has been set. You can't then just decide to throw the book at the Pats now. So essentially, what he's doing is just making stuff up as he goes along. The judge said he can't do that. And the judge is right.

The judge isn't saying he doesn't have authority. He's saying that he can't overstep his authority and when questioned, they have to follow the procedures set forth in the CBA. There's a difference.

 

[KJJ]

Not necessarily. There is a past to this case that will be considered. I think it will be two games but it could be less.

They'll consider everything but I can't recall any player who was charged with domestic violence and suspended by the league having their suspension completely overturned. Hardy will miss some games that's my opinion.

 

[khiladi]

This really comes down to Goodell's incompetence in handling suspensions and fines. Terrell Pryor was suspended for something he did in college which was not against the law and didn't affect the outcome of games...in college.

Then Ray Rice gets a 2-game suspension for clocking his fiancé.

There's just no consistency or reasoning in his past suspensions so one could always argue that deflating footballs doesn't deserve the punishment of 4-games when they doled out a 2-game suspension to Ray Rice or 1-game suspensions for DUI, etc.

But more importantly, all of this ties back to SpyGate and the commissioner's covering up of SpyGate and handing a weak penalty. The Patriots only lost their higher pick in the first round (they had the 10th overall pick from the Niners) and Belichick was fined $1 million and subsequently was given a new contract at an undisclosed figures 2-weeks later (aka, Kraft essentially paid off the fine).

Goodell had the perfect opportunity to drop the hammer because Belichick is not protected by a CBA. And this would have sent a message to the Patriots (and the rest of the league) that if you cheat in the NFL, the fine will be severe enough to make you reconsider doing it.

Instead, they got a slap on the wrist and Brady and Belichick had no problem with cheating again if it meant winning a Super Bowl. And Kraft was there to fully support them.

Now the league and the game is in a situation where teams should feel free to find ways to cheat because if they get caught, it will only result in a fine because the team and the player can just take the league to court. This is how popular sports like boxing and baseball saw a large dent in their popularity. Looks like football is next.





YR

And Sean Payton got suspended for a whole year as opposed to Bellichek.