Trade Dak?

[mattjames2010]

Dak being like TROY AIKMAN is a BAD THING now? Holy crap, we're going down the rabbit hole here.

Read my post again. As I have said multiple times, done with the hand holding. Most of you are adults, I'm guessing. Use critical thinking, comprehend, then reply. Take your time if needed.

 

[mattjames2010]

I wouldn't trade Dak for 5 consecutive first round draft picks from Cleveland. There's nothing or no one that I would trade Dak for. You only get franchise QBs once a generation and the fact that we got a franchise QB at the exact moment we needed one with our current franchise QB coming off serious injury is a gift from the football gods.

I'm a Romo fan and always will be but if Dak was traded I think that would push me over the edge and I would stop watching football. 22 years of suck with a couple playoff flair ups here and there and now we got a good nucleus to build off of and there's even a thought to trade it away? No way dude, wouldn't trade Dak for anything. Again this is coming from a hard core Romo fan. There's no way I'd even think about trading Dak, Dak is playing the at an MVP level as a rookie. We're looking at a guy who can be the elite QB in the league for the next 10-12 years. I seriously think I'd be done with football if that happened. Again, Romo is my favorite Cowboy player since Darren Woodson and woody and Romo are 1 and 2 on my list of all time favorite Cowboys but I would be so disgusted with Jerry if Dak was traded that I would be done.

With 5 consecutive first round draft picks, you would be capable of building one of the best and cheapest teams in the NFL. Are you insane, man? Also, in that time span, one of the best QB prospects since Luck would be coming out.

I'd jump on that offer for nearly ANY player in the league. My goodness people, think.

 

[phildadon86]

Not what I said at all and I haven't said Dak doesn't have talent.

Jay Cutler has talent...but shouldn't be considered a franchise QB
Kirk Cousins has talent...but shouldn't be a considered a franchise QB
Tyrod Taylor has talent...but doesn't look to be a franchise QB
Mark Sanchez helped his team to two championships....wasn't a franchise QB

And I haven't said i don't want talent around him, I said i don't want a QB being made by his surroundings. I said i wanted a QB making those around him better. Understanding what I'm saying here: You could have a heck of a lot of talent around a QB which makes him competent, then there are QBs who take that already great talent and makes them even better (Sometimes into legends)

Dak will not always have this talent around him. We take for granted the line we have, and I can almost promise you something will happen in the next few years that will take our great group of lineman and have it decline. That's just how the NFL works. So when this offensive line declines and he no longer sit back and write an essay in the pocket, then what? Does heavy footed Dak suddenly become a Wilson? Does he perfect his mechanics and stop throwing off his back foot? Does he suddenly gain the arm that can fit balls into tight spaces on a consistent basis without the need of a Beasley or Witten have 3-4 steps on a corner/LB?

Again, everyone should still be skeptical of Dak. Anyone going all in are the ones with an agenda.

LOL. So, we should be skeptical about a guy who beat records decades old, led our team to 13-3. (which by the way was Romos best campaign as a starter for us) and who has the locker room behind him? And we have the agenda? Right

 

[mattjames2010]

LOL. So, we should be skeptical about a guy who beat records decades old, led our team to 13-3. (which by the way was Romos best campaign as a starter for us) and who has the locker room behind him? And we have the agenda? Right

Anyone should be skeptical of someone who has only had ONE SUCCESSFUL season in the NFL.

Skepticism =/= agenda

Like your writing gig you had a couple years ago, you failed again. Next!

 

[phildadon86]

Anyone should be skeptical of someone who has only had ONE SUCCESSFUL season in the NFL.

Skepticism =/= agenda

Like your writing gig you had a couple years ago, you failed again. Next!

Personal attacks eh? I failed? Really? Maybe i found something better, or maybe I just didn't enjoy it. Either way. Who the hell are you to judge me? Go fly a kite. You are like a child who throws a tantrum when you dont get your way. Its actually quite amazing. By the way, aren't personal attacks on this board not allowed?

 

[mattjames2010]

Personal attacks eh? I failed? Really? Maybe i found something better, or maybe I just didn't enjoy it. Either way. Who the hell are you to judge me? Go fly a kite. You are like a child who throws a tantrum when you dont get your way. Its actually quite amazing. By the way, aren't personal attacks on this board not allowed?

Not a personal attack at all. People fail all the time, especially with careers/hobbies.

But more importantly, really just tiresome to hand hold around here constantly because people are overly emotional about football. I get when people are this way during game threads, let it out. But weeks after, days after, or even hours after?

I was holding hands last year and walking most of you through the issues with this team. Telling you it wasn't the coaching staff, pointing out our real areas of weakness. All we got was a thousand Garrett memes saying he needs to be fired, now he's up for coach of the year.

Again, I am done holding hands and drawing pretty pictures for irrational and overly emotional posts. I have observed Dak's game, I provided GIFs, I provided full videos and pointed out exactly the things I believe Dak will never be able to improve upon and those exact reasons why I don't view him as the future of this franchise. Even IF I liked everything about Dak, one year does not make a career. Being skeptical and saying that a sophomore slump may happen and his production falls off a cliff makes logical sense, yes or no? If you answer yes, then what exactly are you even trying to argue here?

 

[phildadon86]

Not a personal attack at all. People fail all the time, especially with careers/hobbies.

But more importantly, really just tiresome to hand hold around here constantly because people are overly emotional about football. I get when people are this way during game threads, let it out. But weeks after, days after, or even hours after?

I was holding hands last year and walking most of you through the issues with this team. Telling you it wasn't the coaching staff, pointing out our real areas of weakness. All we got was a thousand Garrett memes saying he needs to be fired, now he's up for coach of the year.

Again, I am done holding hands and drawing pretty pictures for irrational and overly emotional posts. I have observed Dak's game, I provided GIFs, I provided full videos and pointed out exactly the things I believe Dak will never be able to improve upon and those exact reasons why I don't view him as the future of this franchise. Even IF I liked everything about Dak, one year does not make a career. Being skeptical and saying that a sophomore slump may happen and his production falls off a cliff makes logical sense, yes or no? If you answer yes, then what exactly are you even trying to argue here?

For the record, I didnt fail. I took a break to deal with some family issues i had going on. Thanks though. And im not arguing its possible he has a slump, but nothing in his play has shown me that will happen. Hes gotten better and spends more time in the film room than anyone on this team. You may not think hes the future, but if hes hoisting a lombardi in Feb your argument will fall on deaf ears all over this board.

 

[mattjames2010]

For the record, I didnt fail. I took a break to deal with some family issues i had going on. Thanks though. And im not arguing its possible he has a slump, but nothing in his play has shown me that will happen. Hes gotten better and spends more time in the film room than anyone on this team. You may not think hes the future, but if hes hoisting a lombardi in Feb your argument will fall on deaf ears all over this board.

Even IF we somehow manage to win a Super Bowl, again, this does not mean he will be a franchise QB. Sure, we will all be grateful for his help in getting a trophy, but there have been a few mediocre QBs that have either gotten to a Super Bowl or won one and done little of note after.

But you freely admitted there is a chance he falls off after this season, yet you "scoffed" and pretended it was an agenda to be skeptical.

Let me put it this way, I am still skeptical of Luck, Newton, and Stafford and 1 has been to a Super Bowl while the other 2 have repeated playoff appearances. You have to be insane to think I wouldn't be skeptical of a QB surrounded by talent on offense and having a good/great rookie season.

You guys are going by "production" - Production is helped by the surroundings. So I cancel all of that out when evaluating Dak and look at his play alone. I have seen him missing too many players deep (No, they would not be dangerous throws, the players were wide open; mainly Dez and Williams and at times Beasley), his footwork and mechanics have actually regressed recently and didn't get better, and as I have stated constantly on here, Dak hasn't shown to have the arm strength to beat tight coverage consistently. There are throws and then there are actual NFL throws, we have done a great job this year with not putting Dak into situations he has to make precision NFL throws. Yes, he can work and improve some of the things I just listed, but you cannot improve arm strength and that is something you will always have to game plan around.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You guys need to take a breath here and relax. Getting kinda personal.

I will point this out though, just because it seems relevant. Earl Morall was drafted by the 49ers, traded for a pair of 1st round picks to the Steelers were he Became a Pro Bowl QB in his first starting season. He was then traded to Detroit for Bobby Lane. Lane failed in Pittsburgh and Morall failed in Detroit. Neither team benefited from that trade but had it never happened, there's a pretty good chance that Morall would have been a great QB for Pittsburgh and Bobby Lane was already the best player in the NFL in Detroit.

Sometimes the best trades are the ones that are never made.

Just a thought.

 

[JS22]

Dak for a 1st and 2nd would be an insult to dak. That's a total insult to how hard it is to find a franchise QB. If Cleveland came asking about dak I wouldn't do anything less than their entire 2017 draft.

Call me crazy, but I'm not even sure if I'd do that. It's so damn hard to find a QB. And without a QB you are average at best. I'd rather not spend 10 years trying to find a QB while watching Dak turn into the next Brady.

Not saying he will. But I'd hate to see it.

 

[haleyrules]

Personal attacks eh? I failed? Really? Maybe i found something better, or maybe I just didn't enjoy it. Either way. Who the hell are you to judge me? Go fly a kite. You are like a child who throws a tantrum when you dont get your way. Its actually quite amazing. By the way, aren't personal attacks on this board not allowed?

My friend. This boy is a baiter and "troll". Do yourself and every Cowboy fan a favour and put him on your ignore list. Its much better that way. Thanks.

 

[SDCowboy]

First, why would you take anything less than 3 firsts? Second, why would you trade the future of the franchise for any price?

 

[plymkr]

With 5 consecutive first round draft picks, you would be capable of building one of the best and cheapest teams in the NFL. Are you insane, man? Also, in that time span, one of the best QB prospects since Luck would be coming out.

I'd jump on that offer for nearly ANY player in the league. My goodness people, think.

You said you'd jump on that offer for nearly any player. Would you jump on that offer for Dak? I think Dak is going to be the next dominant QB of the league for the next 8-12 years. The stats are looking like he is and his work ethic is backing that idea up. So would you trade a Tom Brady in his rookie year for 5 round 1 draft picks. Probably not. Why would we need a player like Luck when Dak put up better numbers than Luck has?

C'mon man, think for second

 

[mattjames2010]

You said you'd jump on that offer for nearly any player. Would you jump on that offer for Dak? I think Dak is going to be the next dominant QB of the league for the next 8-12 years. The stats are looking like he is and his work ethic is backing that idea up. So would you trade a Tom Brady in his rookie year for 5 round 1 draft picks. Probably not. Why would we need a player like Luck when Dak put up better numbers than Luck has?

C'mon man, think for second

Dude, Prescott is a one year player. You then get 5 consecutive first round picks. That gives you 10 first round picks in the next 5 years. That would be considered The Great Train Robbery 2.

Actually, thinking about it more, if someone came to me with that offer I would give up any player in the league. 5 consecutive years of first round picks for ONE player is simply too much value. If you scout correctly, from that alone, you could rebuilt your offense and defense as you see fit.

As for the "Dak has put up better numbers than Luck has" - Dak. Has. More. Talent. Surrounding. Him. Luck has one decent WR, a trash O-line and a shoddy defense. He's got his team to the playoffs his first 3 seasons, and threw 40 TDs to 16 INTs in 2014. Again, that's with one quality WR and a bunch of nobodies.

And again, you get 10 first round picks in 5 years, you get yourself a Luck type prospect, and you have 9 other first round picks to surround him with the weapons he needs and the defense to help carry him.

This isn't even much of a debate. You exaggerated and I think you will realize that. Actually, if I was Jerry, I'd give the Browns a call because they're silly enough to give up that many draft picks for Prescott.

 

[plymkr]

Dude, Prescott is a one year player. You then get 5 consecutive first round picks. That gives you 10 first round picks in the next 5 years. That would be considered The Great Train Robbery 2.

Actually, thinking about it more, if someone came to me with that offer I would give up any player in the league. 5 consecutive years of first round picks for ONE player is simply too much value. If you scout correctly, from that alone, you could rebuilt your offense and defense as you see fit.

As for the "Dak has put up better numbers than Luck has" - Dak. Has. More. Talent. Surrounding. Him. Luck has one decent WR, a trash O-line and a shoddy defense. He's got his team to the playoffs his first 3 seasons, and threw 40 TDs to 16 INTs in 2014. Again, that's with one quality WR and a bunch of nobodies.

And again, you get 10 first round picks in 5 years, you get yourself a Luck type prospect, and you have 9 other first round picks to surround him with the weapons he needs and the defense to help carry him.

This isn't even much of a debate. You exaggerated and I think you will realize that. Actually, if I was Jerry, I'd give the Browns a call because they're silly enough to give up that many draft picks for Prescott.

No I didn't exaggerate and I haven't realized anything. Dude I get it, you're a Romo guy. So am I. But with that being said you can not minimize what Dak has done this year. Dak has put up MVP like numbers and is considered in some talks as a MVP candidate and he's still a rookie. The argument that Dak is good because his supporting cast is great is a bogus argument. If that is the case then Matt Ryan should not even be considered an MVP candidate due to how great his receivers are. Great players get the most out of their supporting cast.

I wanted Romo to be the guy this year and to win us a super bowl. I still do but Dak is a phenomenal player and he has room to grow. So the question would be do you risk trading away a generational player that I believe Dak is for draft picks. Would the Patriots trade away Tom Brady for draft picks. I don't think they would and I really don't think they would have if it was offered after his first year of starting. As much as I love Romo and Romo will go down as one of my favorite Cowboys of all time, I truly believe Dak is one of those Tom Brady like generational players. I would not risk trading that away for anything.

Put it this way. What if in 2002 Jerry offered Kraft 5 first rounders for Tom Brady. Would you take that deal. I would . I would easily give up 2003-2008 first round picks to have Tom Brady for 15 years. No question in my mind. We lose out on Terence Newman, ware, that other DE that we drafted with ware, Felix jones, Mike Jenkins. Yeah I would take Tom Brady over all of them combined.

Look dude I love Romo more than any other Cowboy player not named Woodson but I can still respect and be a fan of Romo and appreciate what we have in Dak. Don't minimize Dak's talent and potential due to allegiance to Romo. I have a strong allegiance to Romo and am genuinely sad he's not the QB this year but having Dak and what he's done this year and his potential to get even better can not be denied.

 

[mattjames2010]

No I didn't exaggerate and I haven't realized anything. Dude I get it, you're a Romo guy. So am I. But with that being said you can not minimize what Dak has done this year. Dak has put up MVP like numbers and is considered in some talks as a MVP candidate and he's still a rookie. The argument that Dak is good because his supporting cast is great is a bogus argument. If that is the case then Matt Ryan should not even be considered an MVP candidate due to how great his receivers are. Great players get the most out of their supporting cast.

I wanted Romo to be the guy this year and to win us a super bowl. I still do but Dak is a phenomenal player and he has room to grow. So the question would be do you risk trading away a generational player that I believe Dak is for draft picks. Would the Patriots trade away Tom Brady for draft picks. I don't think they would and I really don't think they would have if it was offered after his first year of starting. As much as I love Romo and Romo will go down as one of my favorite Cowboys of all time, I truly believe Dak is one of those Tom Brady like generational players. I would not risk trading that away for anything.

Put it this way. What if in 2002 Jerry offered Kraft 5 first rounders for Tom Brady. Would you take that deal. I would . I would easily give up 2003-2008 first round picks to have Tom Brady for 15 years. No question in my mind. We lose out on Terence Newman, ware, that other DE that we drafted with ware, Felix jones, Mike Jenkins. Yeah I would take Tom Brady over all of them combined.

Look dude I love Romo more than any other Cowboy player not named Woodson but I can still respect and be a fan of Romo and appreciate what we have in Dak. Don't minimize Dak's talent and potential due to allegiance to Romo. I have a strong allegiance to Romo and am genuinely sad he's not the QB this year but having Dak and what he's done this year and his potential to get even better can not be denied.

"You're a Romo fan" - I would have given up Romo in his prime years for 5 consecutive first round picks.

It wouldn't be a "risk" for me. If Prescott is as valuable as you say, do you really believe a team is going to give us 5 first round picks if we put Dak on the trade block? If you answer no, then give me the reason.

In today's league, that is far too much value for a single player. That's all I took issue with in your post, 5 consecutive first round picks would give you 10 in 5 years and that's enough to rebuild a team from bottom up.

"Look dude I love Romo" - Every post. I don't care, that's not the argument I'm making here. He's irrelevant.

 

[plymkr]

"You're a Romo fan" - I would have given up Romo in his prime years for 5 consecutive first round picks.

It wouldn't be a "risk" for me. If Prescott is as valuable as you say, do you really believe a team is going to give us 5 first round picks if we put Dak on the trade block? If you answer no, then give me the reason.

In today's league, that is far too much value for a single player. That's all I took issue with in your post, 5 consecutive first round picks would give you 10 in 5 years and that's enough to rebuild a team from bottom up.

"Look dude I love Romo" - Every post. I don't care, that's not the argument I'm making here. He's irrelevant.

I think that's where we disagree. I think there are players, very few, that is that valuable. Considering what the Eagles paid to have the chance to draft Wentz and he never played a snap in the NFL, I think it would be possible, but highly unlikely, that a team would put up 5 firsts to get a known product in Prescott. I will say without thinking twice that if a team offered it I would want Jerry to turn it down. I would be very upset if Jerry made that deal. The ceiling is high on Prescott and if he's playing like this as a rookie, think how much better he can play. So why trade away a player that has the potential to be an MVP candidate every year for the next generation?

So going back to my Tom Brady analogy. If Jerry offered Kraft 5 first round draft picks for Brady after 2002 and he took it. We would have received Tom Brady and given up: Terence Newman, Demarcus Ware, Marcus Spears, Bobby Carpenter, Anthony Spencer and Felix Jones and I'll even throw in Mike Jenkins. I would easily take Tom Brady over those 7 players. The only player I would even have noticed was gone would have been Ware.

So my question to you, and be honest cuz I was honest with you, would you rather have Tom Brady since 2003-present day or the combination of Newman, Ware, Spears, Carpenter, Spencer, Jones and Jenkins?

Dak Prescott's numbers and play on the field is comparable to Tom Brady right now and Prescott has room to grow. If he's playing like Brady now what do you think the future holds? No way I'm trading that opportunity away. Franchise QBs are very rare and to have one with this amount of talent and playing this well as a rookie is unheard of. As a rookie he only threw 5 interceptions. There's some franchise QB veterans that have thrown five in one game.

 

[plymkr]

Even IF we somehow manage to win a Super Bowl, again, this does not mean he will be a franchise QB. Sure, we will all be grateful for his help in getting a trophy, but there have been a few mediocre QBs that have either gotten to a Super Bowl or won one and done little of note after.

But you freely admitted there is a chance he falls off after this season, yet you "scoffed" and pretended it was an agenda to be skeptical.

Let me put it this way, I am still skeptical of Luck, Newton, and Stafford and 1 has been to a Super Bowl while the other 2 have repeated playoff appearances. You have to be insane to think I wouldn't be skeptical of a QB surrounded by talent on offense and having a good/great rookie season.

You guys are going by "production" - Production is helped by the surroundings. So I cancel all of that out when evaluating Dak and look at his play alone. I have seen him missing too many players deep (No, they would not be dangerous throws, the players were wide open; mainly Dez and Williams and at times Beasley), his footwork and mechanics have actually regressed recently and didn't get better, and as I have stated constantly on here, Dak hasn't shown to have the arm strength to beat tight coverage consistently. There are throws and then there are actual NFL throws, we have done a great job this year with not putting Dak into situations he has to make precision NFL throws. Yes, he can work and improve some of the things I just listed, but you cannot improve arm strength and that is something you will always have to game plan around.

One other thing I want to throw out into this discussion is if Dak is a product of his surroundings then why didn't Sanchez put up numbers comparable to Dak and beat the Eagles? You got to give Dak some credit for making the most of his surroundings. Cassell and Weeden played behind the same online last year and didn't do anything.

 

[mattjames2010]

I think that's where we disagree. I think there are players, very few, that is that valuable. Considering what the Eagles paid to have the chance to draft Wentz and he never played a snap in the NFL, I think it would be possible, but highly unlikely, that a team would put up 5 firsts to get a known product in Prescott. I will say without thinking twice that if a team offered it I would want Jerry to turn it down. I would be very upset if Jerry made that deal. The ceiling is high on Prescott and if he's playing like this as a rookie, think how much better he can play. So why trade away a player that has the potential to be an MVP candidate every year for the next generation?

So going back to my Tom Brady analogy. If Jerry offered Kraft 5 first round draft picks for Brady after 2002 and he took it. We would have received Tom Brady and given up: Terence Newman, Demarcus Ware, Marcus Spears, Bobby Carpenter, Anthony Spencer and Felix Jones and I'll even throw in Mike Jenkins. I would easily take Tom Brady over those 7 players. The only player I would even have noticed was gone would have been Ware.

So my question to you, and be honest cuz I was honest with you, would you rather have Tom Brady since 2003-present day or the combination of Newman, Ware, Spears, Carpenter, Spencer, Jones and Jenkins?

Dak Prescott's numbers and play on the field is comparable to Tom Brady right now and Prescott has room to grow. If he's playing like Brady now what do you think the future holds? No way I'm trading that opportunity away. Franchise QBs are very rare and to have one with this amount of talent and playing this well as a rookie is unheard of. As a rookie he only threw 5 interceptions. There's some franchise QB veterans that have thrown five in one game.

You're comparing the cowboys draft strategy during the dark ages. You would have to be one of the worst GMs in football to absolutely screw up 10 first round draft picks in 5 years. That would be an epic failure in sports. There would obviously still need to be scouting involved and not just throwing picks at any player like we used to do.

And being honest, no, I wouldn't have given up 5 first round draft picks for Brady. Why? Because I don't think you understand what losing 5 first round draft picks can do to a franchise. So, let's do another analogy. Would you have given up 5 first round draft picks after the 2010 season for Brady? We would have lost out on Smith, Mo, Fred, Martin, Jones

...that's our entire offensive line, by the way outside of Free. Gaining draft picks, you have an actual chance to build a team. Losing draft picks prevents that. No smart GM in history is giving up 5 consecutive first round picks for players. It's far too risky, and no GM should ever turn down that many first round picks for any player. in this cap era, and this being a young man's league, you take those draft picks and built yourself a dynasty.

As for the "franchise QBs are rare" - They're really not as rare as you're making it sound. Since 2008, these are the list of franchise QBs

Stafford
Ryan
Flacco
Luck
Tannehill
Wilson
Dalton
Newton

You then have promising QBs like

- Carr
- Mariota
- Winston
- Cousins (I don't think of him as a franchise QB, but many others do)

That's 8 franchise QBs found since 08, with 4 having the potential to be franchise QBs along with players like Prescott, Wentz, Goff still needing to prove themselves.

Are you telling me that in 5 years with 10 first round draft picks we wouldn't be able to find ourselves a franchise QB? There would be a drought of them suddenly? It would be a dream come true to get an offer like that for any player.

 

[plymkr]

I think that's where we disagree the most. I think we disagree on three things. 1. Is how rare a franchise QB is and 2. How special Dak is and how dominant he could be and 3. Going with the known product against the unknown. I don't think I am going to be able to change your mind on any of those points and I don't think my mind could be changed. I think Dak on this team is on the verge of being very special and dominant for a long time to come. Plug in a couple defensive players next year and we are a scary good team, scarier than right now. I wouldn't trade the opportunity to make a Patriots time run the next 10-15 years for any price. We got the pieces together right now to win the super bowl this year, next year and the years after that. Dak has room to grow with fixing his mechanics and footwork. Think how good he'll be then. I'm more comfortable with the known product of Dak versus rolling the dice in the draft to try and get someone like Dak again.

But you asked a question, which was a good question, would I trade for Tom Brady after the 2010 season for 5 firsts. That answer is no and the reason is because of age. Tom Brady was already 8 years in the league. You asked the other day if I would have traded Romo for 5 #1's and that answer would have been yes. Cuz when we had Romo we didn't have the supporting cast around him to get to the next level.

With Dak's performance this year and the way he took control of the locker room, the team, re-energized the whole franchise along with that supporting cast I would not mess with this situation at all. We're on the cusp of making a serious run at things for a good number of years. I wouldn't trade this opportunity away for any price.

So I see your point and I respect it, I don't agree with it with this situation. I am not going to say that your wrong and I'm right or vice versa, we just see things differently.