Trade zeke and 1st round pick for clowney and johnson

[Jake]

The difference is that DL are worth the investment.

And yet, the Texans haven't invested in Clowney.

 

[waldoputty]

Oh, so now you are saying we lose Zeke AND Byron Jones AND a 1st round pick to get Clowney.

That’s so much better

no, i am not trading jones.
just no need to sign him after the season.

it is a redistribution of resources.
dl comes first before dbs.
pressure over coverage

 

[OmerV]

no, i am not trading jones.
just no need to sign him after the season.

it is a redistribution of resources.
dl comes first before dbs.
pressure over coverage

You can’t trade a player that isn’t under contract. Jones will be a free agent after this season. And, by the way, the Cowboys May have to let Jones walk even with Zeke, so Clooney would still make the problem worse. At the end of the day it’s stupid for you to keep acting as if night an extra $7-$10MM per year (with Duke) doesn’t have an impact to a team having to make tough decisions on paying players

 

[Wood]

texans want a lt, but that is hard to get.
a better running game could be a substitute
clowney is worth the $ and would make the D pressure really scary
johnson + pollard would handle rb duties fine and then draft another rb using a 2nd in 2020
both teams get rid of their problems.

I think biggest problem is there are few teams in NFL who want to make Zeke highest paid RB after seeing craters left by Todd Gurley & David Johnson contracts & lack of production. I think Zeke will need to sit for while and start to loose chunks of money before he makes a move.

 

[waldoputty]

You can’t trade a player that isn’t under contract. Jones will be a free agent after this season. And, by the way, the Cowboys May have to let Jones walk even with Zeke, so Clooney would still make the problem worse. At the end of the day it’s stupid for you to keep acting as if night an extra $7-$10MM per year (with Duke) doesn’t have an impact to a team having to make tough decisions on paying players

what did i just say?
"no, i am not trading jones.
just no need to sign him after the season."

money for zeke would go to clowney
it would be 7-8m more, but you would have to pay the de, and 7-8m would pay for someone like quinn.
so the math comes out about the same.
on top of it, it would make bjones much less necessary with more pressure.
that would make it quite doable to save 15m on bjones.

if you look at the roster, you will see we would have tied down the ol and dl for a few years.
that also gives us bookend probowl de's.

this would allow money to be spent on qb and wr1.
you can draft the rb in the 2nd and get another cb in the 3rd, or the other way around.
this is a much better use of resources than zeke.

 

[waldoputty]

I think biggest problem is there are few teams in NFL who want to make Zeke highest paid RB after seeing craters left by Todd Gurley & David Johnson contracts & lack of production. I think Zeke will need to sit for while and start to loose chunks of money before he makes a move.

if texas dont want zeke, i would not blame them.

as far as i am concerned, i would like to see zeke hold out for some games.
it allows dak and the wrs to grow instead of having the offense run through zeke.
zeke is the crutch.
but it is also a progress stopper for the offense.
they need to see whether dak can be a real qb or not now.

 

[OmerV]

if texas dont want zeke, i would not blame them.

as far as i am concerned, i would like to see zeke hold out for some games.
it allows dak and the wrs to grow instead of having the offense run through zeke.
zeke is the crutch.
but it is also a progress stopper for the offense.
they need to see whether dak can be a real qb or not now.

I’m sorry , I read that wrong about Byron. But in the end you are still talking about the Cowboys losing the benefit of 3 first round picks (Jones, Zeke and the 2020 1st rounder) in order to get Clowney. Yes that is a redistribution of assets - a bad one. It’s like saying it makes sense to give up $100 so you can get $40 in return.

What’s better - to have Clowney, or to have Zeke, Byron Jones and Vander Esch (or Zach Martin or Frederick?)

 

[waldoputty]

I’m sorry , I read that wrong about Byron. But in the end you are still talking about the Cowboys losing the benefit of 3 first round picks (Jones, Zeke and the 2020 1st rounder) in order to get Clowney. Yes that is a redistribution of assets - a bad one. It’s like saying it makes sense to give up $100 so you can get $40 in return.

that is fine.

we have already derived about 50% or more of the 1st spent on zeke. i give him at most 3 more prime years.

not signing jones is not for getting clowney.
money-wise, we are already about neutral with clowney for zeke because you would otherwise need a decent de.
it is a additional benefit for getting clowney that allows us not to spend 15m on jones.

 

[OmerV]

that is fine.

we have already derived about 50% or more of the 1st spent on zeke. i give him at most 3 more prime years.

not signing jones is not for getting clowney.
money-wise, we are already about neutral with clowney for zeke because you would otherwise need a decent de.
it is a additional benefit for getting clowney that allows us not to spend 15m on jones.

You say it’s fine, and i don’t. Agree to disagree.

By the way, if letting Jones walk wasn’t about getting Clowney, then why in the world did you bring him up?

 

[waldoputty]

You say it’s fine, and i don’t. Agree to disagree.

By the way, if letting Jones walk wasn’t about getting Clowney, then why in the world did you bring him up?

i am simply saying that getting clowney would make it unnecessary to sign bjones.
use that money somewhere else.
take a look at the long term roster salary.
use the $ on dak, cooper, dt or even a safety
then draft a rb or 2, a cb or 2.

 

[OmerV]

i am simply saying that getting clowney would make it unnecessary to sign bjones.
use that money somewhere else.
take a look at the long term roster salary.
use the $ on dak, cooper, dt or even a safety
then draft a rb or 2, a cb or 2.

Getting a quality DE means a quality CB is unnecessary? A quality CB would helps a DE because it means he would have more time to get to the QB because receivers have a harder time getting open quickly. And a weaker CB hurts a DE because the QB has a better opportunity to find a receiver before the pass rush can get to him.

But I guess we could use our 1st round pick to get a new CB ... oh wait, we won’t have one, right? Lol.

 

[DanTanna]

Why would we trade one headache for a bigger headache? At least Zeke appears to try hard every play, clowney obviously takes many many plays off.

 

[waldoputty]

Getting a quality DE means a quality CB is unnecessary? A quality CB would helps a DE because it means he would have more time to get to the QB because receivers have a harder time getting open quickly. And a weaker CB hurts a DE because the QB has a better opportunity to find a receiver before the pass rush can get to him.

But I guess we could use our 1st round pick to get a new CB ... oh wait, we won’t have one, right? Lol.

a dominant dl changes the entire defense.
build the pressure line and fill in the rest.
the chance of getting a probowl de is very low even in the 1st round.
a 2nd or 3rd round cb can be very serviceable.
we are about to go into the season with bjones likely missing time.
anyone worried about it much?
even more so for rb.
the bigger problem is if texans are willing to do that trade.

 

[OmerV]

a dominant dl changes the entire defense.
build the pressure line and fill in the rest.
the chance of getting a probowl de is very low even in the 1st round.
a 2nd or 3rd round cb can be very serviceable.
we are about to go into the season with bjones likely missing time.
anyone worried about it much?
even more so for rb.
the bigger problem is if texans are willing to do that trade.

And a dominant RB changes the offense. Still, in either case it’s ridiculous to think that circumvents the need for high quality players in other roles.

Byron Jones missing time this year is not a point for you. Having Clowney wouldn’t somehow change that.

By the way, why do you have an argument because Zeke is holding out, but you ignore the fact Clowney is too.

 

[waldoputty]

And a dominant RB changes the offense. Still, in either case it’s ridiculous to think that circumvents the need for high quality players in other roles.

Byron Jones missing time this year is not a point for you. Having Clowney wouldn’t somehow change that.

By the way, why do you have an argument because Zeke is holding out, but you ignore the fact Clooney is too.

having clowney definitely pressure the qb, that is what changes.

dominant rb may be more of a progress stopper for the current offense.
i would actually like to see zeke holdout.

i am not having any issue because zeke is holding out.
i have an issue because he wants too much money for the position.
clowney is worth it but zeke is not.

 

[OmerV]

having clowney definitely pressure the qb, that is what changes.

dominant rb may be more of a progress stopper for the current offense.
i would actually like to see zeke holdout.

i am not having any issue because zeke is holding out.
i have an issue because he wants too much money for the position.
clowney is worth it but zeke is not.

Here you are again separating out Zeke from Clooney, and forgetting the totality of what you want to give up - Zeke and a 1st round pick (potentially another Van Der Esch/Zack Martin/Frederick level player) and letting Byron Jones walk away ... and I let you go down that path again. It’s ludicrous to suggest Clooney makes up for all that.

And now you are telling us the Cowboys may well be wrong to want Zeke in their offense at all, that Zeke may actually hurt the offense? That’s a head scratcher. Lol

As for Zeke wanting too much money for the position, he is at the top of his position, and asking to be paid like it. Clooney is not at the top of his position, yet he is also asking to be paid like he is.

 

[waldoputty]

Here you are again separating out Zeke from Clooney, and forgetting the totality of what you want to give up - Zeke and a 1st round pick (potentially another Van Der Esch/Zack Martin/Frederick level player) and letting Byron Jones walk away ... and I let you go down that path again. It’s ludicrous to suggest Clooney makes up for all that.

And now you are telling us the Cowboys may well be wrong to want Zeke in their offense at all, that Zeke may actually hurt the offense? That’s a head scratcher. Lol

As for Zeke wanting too much money for the position, he is at the top of his position, and asking to be paid like it. Clooney is not at the top of his position, yet he is also asking to be paid like he is.

i have been saying for half the thread - having zeke is a progress stopper.
zeke is a crutch and having the crutch slows/stops progress of the offense.
that is the 90's garrett offense that needs to go.

spend the money in the guy who throws the ball and the guys who catch the guys who throw the ball.
there is a reason why qb, lt, de are the positions where the most money is spent.

 

[Bigdog]

I know. We can parlay the extra picks into more extra picks.

I figured that is what you were thinking but did not want to assume. Love to get Lawrence but I just don’t see it happening.

 

[OmerV]

i have been saying for half the thread - having zeke is a progress stopper.
zeke is a crutch and having the crutch slows/stops progress of the offense.
that is the 90's garrett offense that needs to go.

spend the money in the guy who throws the ball and the guys who catch the guys who throw the ball.
there is a reason why qb, lt, de are the positions where the most money is spent.

Again, you are trying to make it a Zeke vs Clowney discussion and avoiding talking about the entirety of what you want the Cowboys to give up.

But this is the most laughable comment yet. Every team relies on its standout players - were Brady or Gronkowski crutches? LaVeon Bell or Antonio Brown? Marshawn Lynch? JJ Watt? Is your argument really that a team is hurting its self for putting a lot of reliance on their most capable players?

The Garrett offense comment is a smokescreen. Zeke is an all purpose back who is a great runner, receiver and blocker. This isn’t about “Garrett’s offense. Hell, the Rams were a run heavy team and they got to the Super Bowl. A strong running game is not a detriment.

Almost every other poster in this thread came in, said the idea makes no sense, then dropped it. It’s a little late, but I’m going to follow their example. This is a fruitless discussion.

 

[waldoputty]

Again, you are trying to make it a Zeke vs Clowney discussion and avoiding talking about the entirety of what you want the Cowboys to give up.

But this is the most laughable comment yet. Every team relies on its standout players - were Brady or Gronkowski crutches? LaVeon Bell or Antonio Brown? Marshawn Lynch? JJ Watt? Is your argument really that a team is hurting its self for putting a lot of reliance on their most capable players?

The Garrett offense comment is a smokescreen. Zeke is an all purpose back who is a great runner, receiver and blocker. This isn’t about “Garrett’s offense. Hell, the Rams were a run heavy team and they got to the Super Bowl. A strong running game is not a detriment.

Almost every other poster in this thread came in, said the idea makes no sense, then dropped it. It’s a little late, but I’m going to follow their example. This is a fruitless discussion.

it is a zeke for clowney trade so it certain is a zeke and clowney discussion.

you dont seem to understand the basic of exchanging a top rb and a 1st round pick for a top de and a 2nd tier rb. it is just that simple and the $ add up the same after you take account of the need for the 2nd tier rb on one side and the 2nd tier de on the other side.

zeke is much more about running than receiving. that is why it is a garrett based offense.

no one said a running game is a detriment, but an over-reliance on the running game is a detriment. take zeke away, and the offense can open up. i really hope zeke is traded for something good or holds out for a bunch of games. need to take the training wheels of the passing game.

brady and gronk are qb and receiver, so dont lump them together with running backs or dl. so is antonio brown.