CFZ Trent Dilfer and 13 other guys

[CowboyRoy]

There have been 57 Super Bowl. Thirteen QBs have been on the winning team at least twice. These same 13 have been the winning QB on 36 of the 57 (63%). Also, in 42 of the games (74%) one of these 13 have been a starting QB. Six times both of the starters in the SB have been one of the 13. Some of them have won with rosters that differed quite a lot. At least three have won with different head coaches. Two have won with completely different NFL teams.

Point is the QB matters in the NFL. They matter a lot. That is why they are paid twice as much and more as any of the other players. That is why any college QB that show potential is going to get drafted early regardless of "red flags" in their resume. Many of the draftees end up being disappointments and even "busts." But every teams management is looking for the next "real? thing."

Some fans look at stats like this and respond with something like, "Look at Trent Dilfer, yuck yuck." Dilfer stand alone ability as a QB was no where near "elite." He probably is one of the least talented QBs to start a SB. But he had some positives going for him also. His Ravens had a great defense...one of the top 5 or so in the SB era. They have a very good running attack. They had a coach who for that season understood what he had and how to use it. And he had Dilfer who listened to the coaches and managed the game like he was told. He never went rogue and tried to the the super hero QB. He filled his role and was a big part of a team that was at the right time/right place and all the parts worked.

If you can get the "elite" QB then your odds of winning go up. But it can be done sometimes with a Trent Dilfer type if everything else aligns perfectly (rare IMO).

So what is your point?

 

[CowboyRoy]

The problem is paying the non elite QBs and trying to win a Super Bowl is nearly impossible.

The rookie QB contract is the biggest advantage in the NFL.

If a QB doesn’t win a Super Bowl on his rookie deal then it’s tough for them to win a Super Bowl once they get the mega deal.

Its only an advantage if you have a SB caliber team already assembled and the rookie QB you have is either elite or close to elite. Good luck winning with a rookie QB if you dont have a SB caliber roster already in place.

SF is a perfect example. SB caliber team currently ready, but the QB's arent good enough. They arent elite so they keep getting beat late in the playoffs.

Mahomes, Brady, Burrows, Wilson all elite types on rookie deals that either won it or came close. And why didnt Burrows win it? Because his Oline simply wasn't good enough.

So EVERYTHING has to be lined up. You have to have that ELITE roster already in place and then stumble upon a young elite QB on a rookie contract.

 

[CowboyRoy]

The problem is laying the so-called winning the Super Bowl standard in the lap of the QB. Fans don't get it, QBs don't win Super Bowls, teams do that. There is a reason some of the greatest QBs to play this game has won only one and many of them have none. Hell, Peyton Manning was league MVP 5 times but only manage to win TWO Super Bowls with 2 different teams.

This is the big one that 70% of the fan base dont get. And its why Rogers only won one. Without the team, the QB doesnt matter. Coaching, QB, team.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I disagree..

The league has been built to make all these teams similar.

The QB and coaching is what gives teams an edge over the other.

If you don’t have the elite QB then building the team is more critical.

The problem is when you pay the non-elite QB you can’t build a good enough team to carry them which is why you shouldn’t be paying the non elite QB like they are elite.

Its the chicken without the egg. The team around the QB is just if not more important. You act like all teams are equal around the QB and its the QB that makes the difference. Classic, classic mistake about football.

The REALITY of QB play is that unless you have Mahomes or Brady, there is always going to be a team with a better QB. And how are you beating the Mahomes and the Brady's? Your not doing it with your QB. So you better have the better team around the QB and a hell of a defense.

Your sitting around thinking you can get the next Mahomes. Its simply not reality.

And just look at your team building theory. You think your winning with a rookie QB without a great team? Good luck with that one.

And again, your theory that you dont pay anyone that is NOT elite is just as unrealistic. As if finding an elite QB is some kind of easy job. You would be lucky to find a top 10 QB.

Most of your theories and ideas as unrealistic and a bit naive. Your looking at how some other teams have won and thinking its some kind of strategy. Its more perfect storm combo of timing and luck than anything. And when that perfect storm happens, yah there is an advantage. But that perfect storm is very very hard to get together.

 

[Ranching]

The problem is paying the non elite QBs and trying to win a Super Bowl is nearly impossible.

The rookie QB contract is the biggest advantage in the NFL.

If a QB doesn’t win a Super Bowl on his rookie deal then it’s tough for them to win a Super Bowl once they get the mega deal.

Mahomes should be cut?

 

[GINeric]

There have been 57 Super Bowl. Thirteen QBs have been on the winning team at least twice. These same 13 have been the winning QB on 36 of the 57 (63%). Also, in 42 of the games (74%) one of these 13 have been a starting QB. Six times both of the starters in the SB have been one of the 13. Some of them have won with rosters that differed quite a lot. At least three have won with different head coaches. Two have won with completely different NFL teams.

Point is the QB matters in the NFL. They matter a lot. That is why they are paid twice as much and more as any of the other players. That is why any college QB that show potential is going to get drafted early regardless of "red flags" in their resume. Many of the draftees end up being disappointments and even "busts." But every teams management is looking for the next "real thing."

Some fans look at stats like this and respond with something like, "Look at Trent Dilfer, yuck yuck." Dilfer stand alone ability as a QB was no where near "elite." He probably is one of the least talented QBs to start a SB. But he had some positives going for him also. His Ravens had a great defense...one of the top 5 or so in the SB era. They have a very good running attack. They had a coach who for that season understood what he had and how to use it. And he had Dilfer who listened to the coaches and managed the game like he was told. He never went rogue and tried to the the super hero QB. He filled his role and was a big part of a team that was at the right time/right place and all the parts worked.

If you can get the "elite" QB then your odds of winning go up. But it can be done sometimes with a Trent Dilfer type if everything else aligns perfectly (rare IMO).

It's not only Trent Dilpher. Joe Theismann, Mark Rypien, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Jim Plunkett, Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, etc.

No... No you don't need an elite quarterback to win the Superbowl. It's great to have an elite quarterback and it increases your chances.

But even an elite quarterback doesn't guarantee you a Superbowl victory.

Just ask Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton, etc.

 

[SinceDayOne]

It's not only Trent Dilpher. Joe Theismann, Mark Rypien, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Jim Plunkett, Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, etc.

No... No you don't need an elite quarterback to win the Superbowl. It's great to have an elite quarterback and it increases your chances.

But even an elite quarterback doesn't guarantee you a Superbowl victory.

Just ask Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton, etc

Point is you do not have to have an "elite" QB to win the SB but your odds increase greatly if you do....something approaching 80%. That is why there is such a frenzy at draft time over incoming rookie QBs. Your second list of very good QBs who never won a SB is interesting. I would point out most of those guys made it to the big game and lost. They got close.

 

[SinceDayOne]

So what is your point?

Point is a teams odds go way up...approaching 80%...of winning the big game if you have an elite QB. You can do it without one but.....

 

[SinceDayOne]

Point is you do not have to have an "elite" QB to win the SB but your odds increase greatly if you do....something approaching 80%. That is why there is such a frenzy at draft time over incoming rookie QBs. Your second list of very good QBs who never won a SB is interesting. I would point out most of those guys made it to the big game and lost. They got close.

It's not only Trent Dilpher. Joe Theismann, Mark Rypien, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Jim Plunkett, Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, etc.

No... No you don't need an elite quarterback to win the Superbowl. It's great to have an elite quarterback and it increases your chances.

But even an elite quarterback doesn't guarantee you a Superbowl victory.

Just ask Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton, etc.

LOL....kind of desperate there, huh? You listed Fran T twice.

 

[GINeric]

LOL....kind of desperate there, huh? You listed Fran T twice.

I'm human and very capable of making mistakes. It's not desperate, I just killed the "elite quarterbacks guarantee superbowl wins" argument with ease.

It was kind of desperate of you to try and find something to cry about instead of sticking to the point that was proven.

 

[GINeric]

Point is you do not have to have an "elite" QB to win the SB but your odds increase greatly if you do....something approaching 80%. That is why there is such a frenzy at draft time over incoming rookie QBs. Your second list of very good QBs who never won a SB is interesting. I would point out most of those guys made it to the big game and lost. They got close.

My second list had more than "very good" quarterbacks on it.

 

[SinceDayOne]

I'm human and very capable of making mistakes. It's not desperate, I just killed the "elite quarterbacks guarantee superbowl wins" argument with ease.

It was kind of desperate of you to try and find something to cry about instead of sticking to the point that was proven.

I never, never, NEVER stated that elite QBs guaranteed any such thing. I stated that winning SB teams have an elite QB approaching 80% of the time but you could also win without one. Please do not distort what I am trying to say. Thanks.

 

[gtb1943]

My second list had more than "very good" quarterbacks on it.

I would call Randall Cunningham very good; as well as Dan Fouts. Not elite. Same with Warren Moon and Donovan McNabb and Carson Palmer. Each of those QBs had a couple of what could be called elite years if not an elite career.

 

[gtb1943]

Jim Kelly was a great QB on a Great Team and did not get a ring. He had a pretty good coach as well. That team just ran into better teams in the SB. OR teams that PLAYED better when it counted.

I mean seriously you look at the 2007 NE Patriot team and it was CLEARLY better than the team that beat them. But THAT team played better in THAT game.
Despite having arguably the GOAT QB, a contender for GOAT Coach as well but when the rubber met the road the other team played just a little better and that was that.

 

[SinceDayOne]

Jim Kelly was a great QB on a Great Team and did not get a ring. He had a pretty good coach as well. That team just ran into better teams in the SB. OR teams that PLAYED better when it counted.

I mean seriously you look at the 2007 NE Patriot team and it was CLEARLY better than the team that beat them. But THAT team played better in THAT game.
Despite having arguably the GOAT QB, a contender for GOAT Coach as well but when the rubber met the road the other team played just a little better and that was that.

You go back thru NFL playoff history and you can find games where the much less talented QB and his team defeated a team with an elite QB. Sometimes the better team actually won even though they did not have the best QB. Sometimes the losers of the game "laid and egg" with a poor game because they were "flat" or perhaps "over confident." Sometimes the team with the lesser QB got hot and on a roll where everything came together at the right time. It happens. That is why they say "In the NFL on any given Sunday....." But the bottom line that stats justify is somewhere around 80% of the time the winner of the SB has an elite QB. You just cannot argue with that. Your odds improve greatly if your QB is elite.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Point is a teams odds go way up...approaching 80%...of winning the big game if you have an elite QB. You can do it without one but.....

sounds great, where do we get an elite qb?

 

[SinceDayOne]

GMs and owners would love the answer to that question. They are obsessed with it. That is why so many QBs are "over drafted" earlier than they deserve. That is why QBs are paid twice as much and more as the other players. That is why young QBs who show a glimmer of hope are given huge extension long before their rookie contracts expire. Managers miss a lot in their evaluation of QB talent but that will not stop them. They know the importance of the elite dude.

 

[Captain-Crash]

Dilfer could have won more playoff games with this team than the glitcher.