Video: Troy Aikman on accuracy: You either have it or you don't

Aviano90

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But the games at the end of the season you used for examples, especially the last one, had low end values for number of attempts. So to me they didn't prove your point.
Of course they dont because it doesn’t fit your agenda They were just at the tail end of the season and some of his most productive. That shouldn’t be possible in the law of diminishing returns. Those carries should have been less productive rather than more productive.
 

Gangsta Spanksta

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Key phrase...in general. You said it can’t increase And I gave you 2 examples of when it did, which you said wasn’t possible. And I will still stand by the law of diminishing returns not applying. You can’t keep everything else constant, which is a necessary component of that law.

Okay, scroll back and quote me, where I say: It can't increase. Or more specifically, I don't think you are fully understanding what I said. For one thing, laws of logic are always true. The law of diminishing returns always applies. What it says is there some point, which you can represent on a graph. in fact let me google a graph up >.>

graph-diminishing-returns.gif


As it relate to football, and zeek specifically, the number of carries zeek gets at first leads to an increase in his YPC. His yards increase during this part. However there is a point, the point of diminishing returns, where once you hit a certain number of carriers Zeeks YPC will start to go down. Now this point of diminishing returns is different from game to game and season to seasons. Things that can effect it are things like defenses worrying about Dak on season and then not the next season. Age. Injury. Good Defense vs Bad Defense. Strength of schedule. But there is always a point of diminishing returns. It is just not always at the same place for every game. That is why its hard to compare week 13 to week 14 sometimes because you could've played the worst defense in 13 and the best on 14. But that tends to average out at the end of the seasons because of sample size, letting you compare running backs and say why Zeek's YPC is lower than such and such, because Zeek has been a workhorse. Also, when you are trying to prove your point, you are doing it using the season as a whole, instead of game by game, saying that Zeek should have lower production, because on the season he had many carries. Where in the stats I was looking at, zeek where he had his highest YPC at the end of the season, for that game, had his lowest amount of carries. A season does take it toll, but zeek hadn't been abused enough to take away the advantages of the rest between games. So in turn, each game is what we look at when we say that Zeek will have a YPC for that game, if he has lower carries, but in turn he probably will also have less yards than he would've if he had increased carries but a lower YPC, since he is still gaining yards even when his YPC is decreasing. As for the article saying, "In General" Well I think debaters and writers have a certain sense of carefulness, and say things like that, so that their point still holds when someone comes up with some obscure example. The general concept is simple, but in actuallity it gets a bit more complicated with many variables effecting where the point of diminishing return is for each game. It isn't always obvious when you look at two games next to each other either, since you would have to research more in dept and compare how your team did against a defense versus others.
 

Aviano90

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no it can't. YPC will eventually diminish because, eventually you reach the point where the running back suffers from exhaustion and mental fatigue. The law still holds. The only thing that external variables will do is effect at what coordinates on the graph that you will start having YPC decrease. But it is pretty much law, that at some points a Running Back's YPC will start to decrease when you increase carries. The football field is a production environment just like afactory or an office where the law is used.
Your response to my pointing out YPC can increase or decrease depending upon a number of factors....no, it can’t.
 

Gangsta Spanksta

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Your response to my pointing out YPC can increase or decrease depending upon a number of factors....no, it can’t.

where does it say the point of diminishing returns can't be at a different place for every game? Where does it say there is a universal point of diminishing returns? Why would that even seem logical to you? Sure you can make a in general graph to represent people in general for a span of time. But you can also make individual graphs. And then per game, well the actual graph might be unknown, but it would be silly to think that Zeek would perform the same with a sore leg, versus when he is uninjured. an injury would move the point of diminishing returns to the left.
 

mrmojo

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I'm still astounded how many still can dismiss a player who was a big part of a dynasty that we will probably never see again and defend those who have yet to smell even one playoff victory.
 

Aviano90

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where does it say the point of diminishing returns can't be at a different place for every game? Where does it say there is a universal point of diminishing returns? Why would that even seem logical to you? Sure you can make a in general graph to represent people in general for a span of time. But you can also make individual graphs. And then per game, well the actual graph might be unknown, but it would be silly to think that Zeek would perform the same with a sore leg, versus when he is uninjured. an injury would move the point of diminishing returns to the left.
Believe what you want. We can agree to disagree. Zeke is still overrated
 

Gangsta Spanksta

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Of course they dont because it doesn’t fit your agenda They were just at the tail end of the season and some of his most productive. That shouldn’t be possible in the law of diminishing returns. Those carries should have been less productive rather than more productive.

Anyway, I don't know how much time I really want to spend convincing you that it applies to football. But well here is a quote from the following site. https://www.britannica.com/topic/diminishing-returns

"This rule holds in any process of production unless the technique of production also changes."

So unless football is not a process of production (garret claps) then the law applies to football. You think football is a production environment? XD
 

Aviano90

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Anyway, I don't know how much time I really want to spend convincing you that it applies to football. But well here is a quote from the following site. https://www.britannica.com/topic/diminishing-returns

"This rule holds in any process of production unless the technique of production also changes."

So unless football is not a process of production (garret claps) then the law applies to football. You think football is a production environment? XD
So this applies to all stats then right? Passing and receiving right? Might explain why Romo And Dez sucked late in the season.
 

cern

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Okay, scroll back and quote me, where I say: It can't increase. Or more specifically, I don't think you are fully understanding what I said. For one thing, laws of logic are always true. The law of diminishing returns always applies. What it says is there some point, which you can represent on a graph. in fact let me google a graph up >.>

graph-diminishing-returns.gif


As it relate to football, and zeek specifically, the number of carries zeek gets at first leads to an increase in his YPC. His yards increase during this part. However there is a point, the point of diminishing returns, where once you hit a certain number of carriers Zeeks YPC will start to go down. Now this point of diminishing returns is different from game to game and season to seasons. Things that can effect it are things like defenses worrying about Dak on season and then not the next season. Age. Injury. Good Defense vs Bad Defense. Strength of schedule. But there is always a point of diminishing returns. It is just not always at the same place for every game. That is why its hard to compare week 13 to week 14 sometimes because you could've played the worst defense in 13 and the best on 14. But that tends to average out at the end of the seasons because of sample size, letting you compare running backs and say why Zeek's YPC is lower than such and such, because Zeek has been a workhorse. Also, when you are trying to prove your point, you are doing it using the season as a whole, instead of game by game, saying that Zeek should have lower production, because on the season he had many carries. Where in the stats I was looking at, zeek where he had his highest YPC at the end of the season, for that game, had his lowest amount of carries. A season does take it toll, but zeek hadn't been abused enough to take away the advantages of the rest between games. So in turn, each game is what we look at when we say that Zeek will have a YPC for that game, if he has lower carries, but in turn he probably will also have less yards than he would've if he had increased carries but a lower YPC, since he is still gaining yards even when his YPC is decreasing. As for the article saying, "In General" Well I think debaters and writers have a certain sense of carefulness, and say things like that, so that their point still holds when someone comes up with some obscure example. The general concept is simple, but in actuallity it gets a bit more complicated with many variables effecting where the point of diminishing return is for each game. It isn't always obvious when you look at two games next to each other either, since you would have to research more in dept and compare how your team did against a defense versus others.
Entropy and enthalpy must be factored into the equation. Also the 6 factor formula and young's modulus of ductility.
 

SackMaster

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Well there were two HOF QBs giving their opinion. It's an opinion that's shared by Jimmy as well. So there's 3 "doctors" telling you you've got cancer...but you just keep telling yourself you're fine.
Not every HOFer agrees with the other HOFers. See my sig from another HOF Dallas QB.

It's called opinions. Not facts, opinions.

Even Troy has been flip floppity with his opinion on Dak. Just read his comments on Dak after the second Eagles game:

“When you start evaluating Dak Prescott and whether to sign him to the big contract, which Jerry has already said he’s going to do, that’s a big factor in that,” Aikman said. “Not only how he’s playing but also does he have the makeup to be able to handle thing when it’s not going well?

“As a quarterback, I know those are tough Monday mornings. But I’ve said it many, many times: Dak’s the last guy that I’d worry about within that organization when it comes to those types of things.

"He’s a terrific guy. I think the world of him and wouldn’t hesitate one minute in having him continue to be the face of the franchise.”


So which Troy opinion is "more" correct?
  1. Dak will never be accurate because either a QB has it or not?
  2. Dak should be the face of the Dallas Cowboys franchise?
Then remember when Troy said the whole organization need to be blown up and restructured when it was 3-5.

While I will not disagree that there are PARTS of the org that should be replaced, its kind of hard to do the WHOLE org when they have produced division champs in 3 of the last 5 years.

So in closing, Troy has his opinion, good for him. You agree with Troy, good for you. I have my opinions, good for me.

But at the end of the day, Troy's, yours and my opinion means exactly jack-squat when it comes to the DC FO.

And as it should be since not a single one of us are accountable to the Dallas Cowboys Org.

Just like I don't want your opinion to matter in the big decisions the company I work for makes. And vice-versa.
:thumbup:
 

Dodger12

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Serious question .

What is Aikman's completion percentage?

Dak' s?

Inter. Ratio?

V.

Dak?

It's not a serious question for anyone that watched football in both eras and watched both QB's play.
 

Diehardblues

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Well at least for me I've never said he doesn't have weaknesses, just that the he's "trash" "horrible" "can't throw accurately past 10 yards" and "has a weak arm" comments are just too exaggerated.

No doubt he has issues. But then again, it's a very rare quarterback that doesn't...
True , all QB’s have issues but do some of these young QB’s who are elevating their teams to the playoffs have some of these issues and concerns we have with Dak?

Have we ever had a starting QB with these issues and concerns?

Is it possible that winning games is over shadowing his weaknesses with many fans?
 

Pass2Run

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It's not a serious question for anyone that watched football in both eras and watched both QB's play.

The answer is Dak's completion percentage this year is 68.3%.

Aikman's all-time completion percentage was 61.5%.

You can say Aikman can throw a better out route than Dak. Aikman was good, but he's kind of full of himself sometimes. And he also doesn't want any current teams accomplishing what he did.

His "accuracy" comment was more about him subtly boasting about himself, subtle hints and all, than any real substance about Dak.

Because the truth is, Dak has been more accurate than Aikman thus far in his career from a statistical standpoint.

I'd venture to say the same for interceptions.

Fact is, Troy's completion percentage was between 56% - 59.5% his last four years as a Cowboy.

Imagine if Dak had a completion percentage that low... Fans would lose their minds even more than now.

Also, I just looked up Aikman's interception numbers and Dak is on pace to have less interceptions.

In Aikman's first two years as a quarterback, he threw 18 interceptions in 1990 and 91.

Say you watched the Cowboys back in the good 'ole days.... I did too. That's how I knew Dak likely had less interceptions and a better completion percentage. That's why I asked the question, because I didn't recall specifically offhand.

Fact is, Dak is good. Fans just haven't figured it out yet..

Likely because they're still stuck in the 90s...Kind of the Cowboy fan M.O. the past 25 or so years.
 
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Willfreedom909

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In fact, Aikman said this week that Romo is a better quarterback than he was.

"I think Tony already is a better quarterback than I was," Aikman told the Brownsville Herald, via the Dallas Morning News. "I know how quarterbacks are judged, but as far as his play-making ability and the things that he is capable of doing, he is a far more athletic quarterback, capable of making more plays than I ever was able to."

Aikman then took his praise of Romo to the next level, saying he believes that he believes the Cowboys will win a Super Bowl with Romo at the helm.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/blogs/blue-star/Aikman-Romo-Is-A-Better-QB-Than-I-Was-143704936.html
Tony may have a drug habit
 

Pass2Run

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By the way, Aikman had one year in his whole career with a higher completion percentage than Dak has right now.

In 1993, Aikman had a completion percentage of 69.1%

In Aikman's 12 years as a QB, his rate was above 60% only half of those years.

The other half he was in the 50 percentile range.

How bout them apples?

Troy Aikman "on accuracy."
 

Dodger12

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The answer is Dak's completion percentage this year is 68.3%.

Aikman's all-time completion percentage was 61.5%.

You can say Aikman can throw a better out route than Dak. Aikman was good, but he's kind of full of himself sometimes. And he also doesn't want any current teams accomplishing what he did.

His "accuracy" comment was more about him subtly boasting about himself, subtle hints and all, than any real substance about Dak.

Because the truth is, Dak has been more accurate than Aikman thus far in his career from a statistical standpoint.

I'd venture to say the same for interceptions.

Fact is, Troy's completion percentage was between 56% - 59.5% his last four years as a Cowboy.

Imagine if Dak had a completion percentage that low... Fans would lose their minds even more than now.

Also, I just looked up Aikman's interception numbers and Dak is on pace to have less interceptions.

In Aikman's first two years as a quarterback, he threw 18 interceptions in 1990 and 91.

Say you watched the Cowboys back in the good 'ole days.... I did too. That's how I knew Dak likely had less interceptions and a better completion percentage. That's why I asked the question, because I didn't recall specifically offhand.

Fact is, Dak is good. Fans just haven't figured it out yet..

Likely because they're still stuck in the 90s...Kind of the Cowboy fan M.O. the past 25 or so years.

You can look up any stats you want and fawn over a dink and dunk passer's completion percentage or fewer INT's. You're comparing Dak to a guy that was that was one of the most accurate passers in the NFL up to that point. He also played in an era where guys like Ronnie Lott and Darren Woodson roamed the secondary waiting to destroy WR's unlike today's offense friendly game.

I'd even venture to guess Dak has a better completion and INT percentage that Staubauch so you might as well throw him into your silly analysis. I know you've never seen Aikman or Staubauch play, because no on in their right minds would compare any of those QB's, their game or their stats, to a dink and dunker like Prescott. I can't even believe anyone would have this discussion because it's so delusional.
 

Pass2Run

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What he was actually accurate at was those medium, to medium-long passes.

He could hit the target in a tight spot like threading the needle type throws.

But he wasn't all that accurate, overall.

His deep ball was pretty lackluster, too, if you recall.

Romo stomps Aikman in terms of accuracy...

Dak, too.

Dak's current 68.3% is good enough to top Drew Brees, the all-time accuracy king, who currently sits at 67.3%, if he keeps it up.

I'm telling you, lots of our fans don't have a freaking clue what they're talking about regarding Dak.

Or quarterbacks in general, for that matter.
 
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