Troy Williamson 40 time?

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Natedawg44 said:
It would be nice to have two of the fastest players in the NFL at their positions with Jones and Williamson on offense.


Julius is not one of the fastest RBs. He is very quick to the hole but has no second gear in the open field as evidenced when he was caught from behind by safety Ken Hamlin in the Seahawks game.
 

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ManicDepressiveMan said:
Julius is not one of the fastest RBs. He is very quick to the hole but has no second gear in the open field as evidenced when he was caught from behind by safety Ken Hamlin in the Seahawks game.
Hamlin had the angle on him.
 
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Duane said:
Hamlin had the angle on him.


If he had the angle, it was very minimal.

Jones just isn't as fast as many make him out to be.

But after years of a declining Emmitt and the plodding of Troy Fatbrick, I suppose just about any RB would look a lot faster.
 

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AdamJT13 said:
I haven't seen anything that would merit adding him to the list. He didn't run track (he did the long jump), and his fastest 40 times are 4.27 (hand-held) and 4.37 (electronic at the Combine). That's fast, but not among the fastest in the league.


What did Newman run?
 

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Whitley, Johnson shine on pro day
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March 6, 2003

By ROBERT PREMEAUX JR.
Eagle Staff Writer


Eagle photo/ Dave McDermand

Scouts from the NFL time A&M linebaker Brian Gamble as he runs the 40 during Pro day.

Wide receiver Bethel Johnson and offensive lineman Taylor Whitley highlighted Texas A&M’s annual NFL pro day as 15 Aggie seniors and two former A&M players performed drills in front of 60-plus NFL scouts, coaches and general managers Wednesday.

Johnson had scouts checking their stopwatches with a blazing run in the 40-yard dash. In a consensus gathering after the 40s were run, scouts used 4.24 seconds as the official time on Johnson’s first run, though some hand-timed it even lower. Johnson also ran a second 40 in the sub-4.3 range.

There are not more than a handfull faster than that guy. He's GONE with a crack.
 

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Nors said:
Whitley, Johnson shine on pro day
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March 6, 2003

By ROBERT PREMEAUX JR.
Eagle Staff Writer


Eagle photo/ Dave McDermand

Scouts from the NFL time A&M linebaker Brian Gamble as he runs the 40 during Pro day.

Wide receiver Bethel Johnson and offensive lineman Taylor Whitley highlighted Texas A&M’s annual NFL pro day as 15 Aggie seniors and two former A&M players performed drills in front of 60-plus NFL scouts, coaches and general managers Wednesday.

Johnson had scouts checking their stopwatches with a blazing run in the 40-yard dash. In a consensus gathering after the 40s were run, scouts used 4.24 seconds as the official time on Johnson’s first run, though some hand-timed it even lower. Johnson also ran a second 40 in the sub-4.3 range.

There are not more than a handfull faster than that guy. He's GONE with a crack.


Yeah, but according to you a 4.24 handheld time is the same as a 4.34 electronically timed.
 

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Rack said:
Yeah, but according to you a 4.24 handheld time is the same as a 4.34 electronically timed.

Adam mentioned it as well. Handheld times are 1/10 of a second faster than electronic timing. Many call the Combine a slow track - thats not so much the case, it just gives the accurate time. Not a bunch of yahoo's standing at a finish line 40 yards away attempting to accurately time a run.

4.34 electronically is all world fast. To my knowledge only Bo and Deion have gone Sub 4.30 Electronically at the Combine.
 

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Nors said:
Adam mentioned it as well. Handheld times are 1/10 of a second faster than electronic timing.


That's not necessarily true. There's no way to scientifically say that. On average it probably is, but every person using a stopwatch is different. Some people may actually be slower with the stopwatch, instead of being faster.

Many call the Combine a slow track - thats not so much the case, it just gives the accurate time. Not a bunch of yahoo's standing at a finish line 40 yards away attempting to accurately time a run.


I agree. It's not a "slow track", it's just that the times are accurate and people are rarely as fast as they say they are.



4.34 electronically is all world fast. To my knowledge only Bo and Deion have gone Sub 4.30 Electronically at the Combine.

A 4.34 electronically times 40 is blazing fast, but you still have to be able to play football. You have to be a football player first, and a "fast guy" second.
 

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Unless the timer Jumps a start. It physically takes a person 1/10 of a second to process the start and hit the start button. With starter guns there are also speed of sound issues. :)

Thats why only electronic's are accurate and they tradionally run 1/10 of a second slower than hand times.
 

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Nors said:
Unless the timer Jumps a start. It physically takes a person 1/10 of a second to process the start and hit the start button. With starter guns there are also speed of sound issues. :)

Thats why only electronic's are accurate and they tradionally run 1/10 of a second slower than hand times.


Nors, use some common sense. There's NO WAY to say that it is always 1/10 of a second faster. Every has different reaction times and it also depends on when the timer STOPS the clock. And every person that's ever timed me has gone on movement, not sound.


I agree electronically is the most accurate, I'm just saying it's not always clear cut that if you run a 4.5 handheld that it's actually a 4.6. In college our coaches always timed slower on handheld, but they did it on purpose to make us think we were slower then we really were. The *******s.
 

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Rack said:
Nors, use some common sense. There's NO WAY to say that it is always 1/10 of a second faster. Every has different reaction times and it also depends on when the timer STOPS the clock. And every person that's ever timed me has gone on movement, not sound.


I agree electronically is the most accurate, I'm just saying it's not always clear cut that if you run a 4.5 handheld that it's actually a 4.6. In college our coaches always timed slower on handheld, but they did it on purpose to make us think we were slower then we really were. The *******s.

You have 10 guys time a 40 and you will probably get 5-8 different times. The 1/10 rule is pretty much a standard and give or take a few hundreths here or there. Its pretty much the standard.
 

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Not shabby for High School. Had he run in College I bet he'd be in the 10.1's. 10.08 was Darrell Green's High school 100 Time :eek:


2000-'02 Profile - Troy Williamson, SBHS '02



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#18
Troy Williamson
Class - Grad '02
Ht.- 6'2"
WB, WR, KOR, PR
2 Varsity Letters
Wt.- 195#


Troy was a steady, quality big play maker in 2000 while the team was building a 15-0 record and winning a State Championship. On the first play from scrimmage in the 2000 Championship game, Troy took a handoff while moving to the right from the left wingback position, turned up field through a well blocked hole, and used his speed to burst 63 yards into the end zone to put Silver Bluff ahead before Abbeville's defenders could get their bearings. He gained 1,203 yards rushing, 681 yards in pass receptions, 373 yards returning kickoffs and 130 yards returning punts while scoring 22 touchdowns on a team loaded with exceptional senior playmakers who got many more carries. On an all-purpose basis, Troy averaged 15 yards every time he touched the ball in 2000.
Troy's performance in 2001 was even better as he led the team to its second consecutive State Championship and 30 the straight win, a SC Class AA record. He gained 1,321 yards rushing, 746 yards in pass receptions, 310 yards returning kickoffs and 45 yards returning punts while scoring 27 touchdowns in the backfield with three other backs who also gained more than 1,100 yards each. To see all the details of his statistics for 2000 and 2001 go to Troy Williamson Statistics.
In the spring of 2002 Troy displayed once again the impressive speed SB fans have come to value. In the SC State meet he won the 100m sprint in 10.34 seconds, the fastest of any 100m competitor in the meet (All classes, A through AAAA) and bettering his time of 10.68 in the 2001 meet. His 10.34 was the fastest for all high school sprinters in the country when he ran it and ended up third best by the end of the school year. In 2000 he won the class AA 200m sprint in 21.58 seconds. And, in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 he anchored Silver Bluff's 4x100 relay team to state championships. Troy was named SC All-State in track for 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 (his Freshman, Sophomore, Junior and Senior) by "The State". Troy has never loss a 100/200m race to anyone in his grade level or below in a major meet. The Aiken "Standard" named Troy their "Track Athlete of the Year for 2001 and 2002". One thing that makes his accomplishments even more amazing is his size. At 6'-2" and 195 lbs. Troy is generally much larger, and stronger, than the other sprinters.
In the 2001 State Strength Contest, Troy ♦♦♦ placed 14th in the 190# class for all South Carolina schools. He weighed in at 188.6#, was 1st in the 40 yard dash and 4th in the vertical jump. In the bench press, he lifted more than his weight and in the squat lift, he lifted twice his weight. Since footballs don't weigh much, Troy is aptly qualified to carry one.
However, not all track stars have what it takes to utilize their skills on the football field. Fortunately for Silver Bluff, Troy does it with grace and efficiency. He has been a devastating triple threat Coach Lown used to apply the "put away" blow to opponents that overcommit against any one phase of the Bulldogs' offense. From his wingback position Troy ran the power sweep, inside trap or quick reverse with equal results - long gainers. He's also positioned ideally to use his exceptional speed to get downfield to the deep sideline or post zones where coverage can only be one-on-one. A lone defensive back is in a perilous position against a receiver like Troy, who is generally bigger, stronger and faster.
All of Troy's attributes above combine to give opponents another problem. And that is, kick returning. Whether returning punts or kickoffs, Troy has the speed and strength to take the ball all the way into the end zone at any time.
Troy's potential and performance did not go unnoticed by the major NCAA 1-A college coaches. What most of them couldn't decide is where to play him. Wing back, slot back. running back, kick returner or wide receiver? This indecision also impacts the pundits that choose preseason "All-something" or "Best-something" or "Top-something" teams. Because of his versatility, Troy sometimes becomes bracketed as an "Athlete" instead of a position player.
Regardless, it is positive his abilities are well known in important college circles:


♦♦♦ Troy Williamson has been selected to play for the South team in the Annual NC-SC Shrine Bowl game.

♦♦♦ Troy Williamson was one of only eight SC high school players nominated for the title of SC's 2001 Mr. Football.

♦♦♦ "The Sporting News" says Troy Williamson is one of the top 125 players in the nation for 2001.

♦♦♦ Tom Lemming, a prognosticator for "ESPN" ranked Troy as one of his National Top 100 prospects.

♦♦♦ Cris Ard, on "TigerRoar.net" listed Troy as #7 in his annual "Sweet Sixteen" picks. He rated Troy with a 7. An 8 in Ard's scheme is an All-American prospect.

♦♦♦ "South Carolina Prep Football" named Troy as SC's 13th best player in the Class of 2002.

♦♦♦ Jimmy Baxter of the "SC Varsity" website selects Troy as a Class AA All-State player and at the top of its' Fab Five list of "Athletes" for 2001.

♦♦♦ "The Augusta Chronicle" has selected Troy as one of their "Dream 16" Central Savannah River Area players for 2001.

♦♦♦ Phil Kornblut, a recruiting expert with a column in "The State" each Monday, has put Troy (WR) on his list of the Top 50 football players in the state for 2001.

♦♦♦ "High School Sports Report" selected Troy as a first team AA All-State Wide Receiver for 2001.
♦♦♦ "Hodge Report" picks Troy on their "Super 150" .

♦♦♦ "The Augusta Chronicle" chose Troy as their 2000 "Track and Field Athlete of the Year".

♦♦♦ "The Aiken Standard" chose Troy as their 2001 "Track Athlete of the Year".

♦♦♦ Troy has received numerous other All-Area, All-District and All-State honors.



Troy received football scholarship offers from some of the highest regarded football programs in the country: USC, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, FSU and Auburn among them. Troy committed to Lou Holtz and the South Carolina Gamecocks and by the fourth game of the 2002 season has become a productive starter at wide receiver and kickoff returner as a true Freshman. And, Coach Holtz is using him just as Coach Lown did. I.E., catching and running with passes, rushing on reverses and returning kicks. Go Gamecocks.
 

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Recruiting: A Combine Results Reference Guide
By Stacey Dean
Date: Jan 10, 2003

As Dallas Cowboy DT Leon Lett was showboating, dancing and prancing his way toward the goalline for a would-be touchdown (which would have resulted in a Super Bowl-record for the most points ever scored by a Super Bowl team), Buffalo Bills WR Don Beebe never gave up. Famous for his last-ditch effort to thwart another Cowboy touchdown by punching the ball out of Lett's hands, Beebe will live long in Buffalo Bills' playoff football lore.

Asked what he is most remembered for when meeting fans across the nation, the former Bills/Packers wideout said, "I'm asked more about that one play than anything else I accomplished during my career on the NFL or college gridiron."

Fast forward to today. Beebe and partner Dr. Jeff Schutt are the scouting combine "gurus." They implement the same core specific drills, timed events, weightlifting exercises, and skills and agility tests for their House of Speed enterprise as the NFL Scouting Combine held annually in Indianapolis. Sportslink, a PR firm who also handles the McDonald's All-American Basketball Game, along with the U.S. Army, employs the House of Speed to administer, supervise and coordinate the U.S. Army All-American Scouting Combine for high school underclassmen across the country on an invitation-only basis. IT took in the event and had a chance to visit with Beebe.

Inside Texas: When did you start the House of Speed?

Don Beebe: Spring of '98.

IT: And when did you guys partner up with Sportslink and the U.S. Army for the Army Scouting Combine?

DB: Well, Sportslink actually runs the deal, we just work the kids. But the Army called us last year.

IT: You said that a 4.32 was the fastest 40 time today (Saturday Jan. 4 at the Harlandale Athletic Complex). Correct?

DB: Yes, and that's pretty fast for this turf. This turf has a significant amount of give.

[Note from Dean: I'd rate the surface just a notch faster than rolled out turf, which is slowest surface I've ever seen 40 times clocked on. The kid who ran the fastest 40 with a 4.32 probably could have reduced it 6-7 tenths of a point on a hot and fast surface.]

IT: There's the never ending debate as to how consistent kids' 40 times are from the recruiting services who cover them. Personally, I have a kid who gave me a 4.17. How realistic is that? I mean, have you ever heard of anyone running a sub-4.2 at the NFL Scouting Combine?

DB: There's been a handful of 4.2 forties and only one guy to ever run a sub-4.2 in the history of the NFL Scouting Combine.

IT: Deion Sanders?

DB: Close. Bo Jackson. He ran a 4.19.
IT: Geez...

DB: I know, that's unreal. If a kid tells you he's running a 4.2, I'd tend not to believe it and that's not saying that the kid is telling you a lie or anything, just there's a big disparity in how the kids are timed. At the House of Speed, I do all of the 40 times myself. I'd like to think I'm pretty accurate, but never 100 percent. So, depending on who is clocking the kids, the 40 times could jump a whole tenth, even more.
 

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HeavyHitta31 said:
Jesus, a guy named Ivory Crockett ran a 3.9 non wind aided 40 in 1974.... :eek: :eek: :eek:


Great read on Football player versus track guy. Imagine if a player ever had legitimate 4.2 speed and was as talented as Rice who ran 4.5/4.6? Its bound to happen..............
Bethel Means Special
By: Ray Faustina
June 12, 2003
From my theology studies, I can tell you that the name "Bethel" actually means "House of God" in Hebrew. But as far as Bethel Johnson is concerned, it may just as well mean "special". I know I'm in a large minority in saying that, but I really believe it may be true. However, if you read most any recent article on him you'll quickly learn that the New England media has frequently been comparng him to former New England second round draft "bust" Tony Simmons. It's the purpose of this article to show why that isn't only a rush to judgment but also is simply a ridiculous comparison.


Former draft expert Joel Buchsbaum, now deceased, had a theory that basically stated the worst mistake you can make when evaluating talent is to make broad generalizations about players. I'm a firm believer in that. For instance, you'll never hear me make careless statements like "all Florida QB's are a product of the system" or "all Wisconsin WR's are busts". It's thinking like that that caused teams to miss out on a gem like Wisconson WR Chris Chambers (Dolphins) in 2001. Chambers turned scouts heads with a 4.33 40-yard dash and had drawn pre-draft comparisons to Eric Moulds (Bills) but he dropped the occasional pass. Thus, the media labeled him a typical Wisconsin "track guy" who can run but can't catch. As a result, he slipped well into the second round where he instantly became the biggest steal of the entire draft. The Dolphins scored a physical reciever in Chambers, who could get downfield quickly, making several acrobatic catches on poorly thrown balls. Lesson #1: Don't generalize.


Of course, one can go to the opposite extreme too. For instance, Oakland's part-owner Al Davis is fond of making player comparisons of current prospects to former greats. The danger of that should be obvious. But that's never stopped him from comparing every maverick QB that comes along to Kenny "The Snake" Stabler, or every intriguing TE to the legendary Dave "The Ghost" Casper, or every big-legged kicker to Hall of Famer Ray Guy, or every big-hitting Safety to Jack "The Assassin" Tatum. This strange methodolgy has netted Davis the following first round picks: QB Todd Marinovich, TE Ricky Dudley, K Sabastian Janikowski, and S Derrick Gibson. Basically all of them are more or less busts. It's also earned them exactly zero Championships since their glory days have ended. Enough said.


But Davis isn't alone in this type of thinking. How many times have we heard over the years the media falsely label someone "the next Joe Montana" or "the next Lawrence Taylor" or "the next Warren Sapp"? Just hearing those tired words is enough to make you vomit. But even I'm guilty of indulging in similar rhetoric from time to time. That is, I'll sometimes say a player has this specific quality of a Marshall Faulk or has this particular characteristic of a Hugh Douglas or has this same physical gift as a Randy Moss. But I'll never make the foolish jump to say that one similarity should or could translate into a similar type career or success. Players like that usually come along once in a lifetime. More importantly, all players, good and bad ones, need to be judged on their own merits and their own capabilities. That's lesson #2, and it's of extreme importance. It's also something that I find myself having to repeat very often.


That brings us back to Bethel Johnson. Here's a guy that runs a dizzying 4.24 40-yard dash. That puts him in the same class with speedsters like Randy Moss and Deion Sanders but relatively few others. Of course that doesn't mean he "is" Deion or Randy, just that he's as fast as them. That point is undeniable, and it certainly should count for something. But this is not just a "track guy" in football pads, such as former 49er Renaldo Nehemiah, for example. Nehemiah, of course, was a huge bust. This is, instead, a "football player" who can run track. There's a big difference.


Johnson's career totals at Texas A&M included 11 TD's, 117 catches, 1740 yards and a 14.9 yards per catch average. That's very good. But that hasn't stopped the press from practically dismissing Johnson altogether as just another track guy in cleats. Frankly, I don't understand the leap in logic. I guess, according to them, he was a football player in the NCAA but is now a track guy in the NFL. Or maybe we're just supposed to pretend his college career never happened. But, whatever the case, much of the New England media has labeled Johnson as this year's Tony Simmons (read: bust).


Maybe some are just determined to be cynical or negative. Maybe some just don't want to get their hopes up only to be let down (aka: Red Sox fan syndrome). But, in fairness, I believe the main reason that many have jumped to this conclusion is due to Johnson's recent workouts with the Patriots where he was said to have dropped a few catchable passes. The problem with that thinking, of course, is that we're talking about judging a rookie on only a three day camp. That's ridiculous, I think.


Tony Simmons, in stark contrast, was drafted in 1997 by the Patriots. That means he had four years as a Pro under his belt before the Patriots were forced to cut him on September 1, 2001. Simmons, remember, was drafted under former GM Bobby Grier and former Head Coach Pete Carroll. It's hardly fair to link their horrendous draft record to current Vice President of Player Personnel, Scott Pioli, and current Head Coach, Bill Belichick. But it seems many want to.


Simmons was drafted, in part, because of his 4.31 speed. He ran track at Wisconsin and was Big-Ten Champion in the outdoor 100-meter and 200-meter. He barely missed qualifying for the Olympics. He was just moonlighting as football player. He lined up at the Flanker (or Split-End) postion for the Badgers. That means he lined up off the line of scrimmage, away from blockers. Frequently teams will put talented yet raw players in this spot because it's not very demanding. His routes usually consisted of either flying straight past DB's or taking short screens over the middle.


This was attractive to Grier and Carroll because their two starters, Terry Glenn and Shawn Jefferson, lacked the size and speed combination necessary to go over the middle. But upon further review, Simmons usually had the middle cleared out for him on those screen passes. Grier and Carroll thought they were getting a physical Michael Irvin type but that clearly was never the case. Though Simmons was a threat to go long, he was also frequently used as nothing more than a decoy on all other plays. That is, he'd line-up at Flanker on running downs, then just do his best to engage as a blocker.


Granted, he did become the first Wisconsin WR to put up back-to-back 500 yard seasons. But it must be viewed in light of that knowledge. Even as a college player, Simmons had a reputation among scouts for having very poor hands. But more troubling to them was his iinability to grasp complex schemes. He had absolutely no experience in running a variety of routes. The Patriots found this out rather quickly. Offensive Coordinator Ernie Zampese tried to dumb it down for him. He simplified his responsibilities to the point where he was only asked to run the same routes everytime.


Of course, Simmons' college numbers are actually superior to Johnson's. Simmons finished his collegiate career with 23 TD's, 97 catches, 1923 yards for a 19.8 yards per catch average. That's 12 more TD's, 183 more yards, and 5 yards more per catch. All of this, mind you, on 20 less catches than Johnson.


But, again, the numbers don't tell the whole strory as Johnson missed significant time due to injuries whereas Simmons did not. Johnson could play any of the WR positions whereas Simmons can't. Johnson ran just about every conceivable route to near perfection whereas Simmons could not. Johnson can run the curl, the slant or the all-important fade whereas Simmons could not. Johnson grasped complex schemes and assignments whereas Simmons could not. Johnson displays elusiveness and YAC ability whereas Simmons does not. Johnson is known for his seriousness and work ethic whereas Simmons was not.


It's also interesting that while Simmons earned the nickname of "Touchdown Tony" after 8 TD's as a Sophmore in college, his TD's dropped to only 4 as a Senior. Johnson had only three up until 2002, when he posted a school record-tying 8 TD's in his "break out" Senior year. Simmons had 537 yards on 27 catches for a 19.9 average as a Senior. Johnson had 718 yards on 40 catches while averaging 17.95 yards per catch in his Senior year. One was on the upswing, the other on the down. Johnson's 40 catches is further eveidence of running a variety of routes, since no team will chuck it long that often. But the fact that he had TD longs of 78 and 59 yards at Texas Tech and Baylor are strong evidence that he can go deep when called upon to do so.


I'm not sure what will become of Tony Simmons. New England fans will likely forever remember him for his many dropped passes, but it was actually his inability to learn the offense and execute assignments that got him kicked out of practice by Belichick, and, ultimately, off of the team. At one point, he was trying out for the Colts. He also "wowed" television viewers with his athleticism by running a difficult obstacle course in record time (31 seconds) at a women's fitness event, with a new division for men, called The Galaxy Nova Competition. He may even stay with the Barcelona Dragons. I don't know. But I think it's fair to say that he'll never live up to initial expectations in the NFL.


If there was to be a WR in the 2003 draft class that we could accurately call "the next Tony Simmons", then I think I've accurately done that when prior to the draft I projected former Florida State WR Talman Gardner as a similar prospect to Simmons. Meanwhile other draft experts were projecting Gardner as a first or second round pick based on speed and skills. I cited his inability to run routes and his tendency to let balls sail through his hands to support my case. Gardner was later busted for carrying marijuana. He slipped to round seven, where he was drafted by the New Orleans Saints.


Naturally, people have the right to criticize Johnson for drops, too. And I'll be the first to admit that he'll bobble and/or drop some passes. But the biggest drop I'll remember Bethel Johnson for is the time he dropped to his knees and was mobbed by fans after defeating the top-ranked former National Champions, the Oklahoma Sooners, on November 10th of 2002. Most interestingly, he beat the highly-regarded Oklahoma DB's on that day not with pure speed but with double-fakes. That's the mark of someone special, and Bethel just might be that.
 

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ManicDepressiveMan said:
Julius is not one of the fastest RBs. He is very quick to the hole but has no second gear in the open field as evidenced when he was caught from behind by safety Ken Hamlin in the Seahawks game.

I guess Alvin Harper is slow also. I seem to remember him getting run down in the NFC championship game against San Fran.... :confused:
 

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Dough Boy said:
I guess Alvin Harper is slow also. I seem to remember him getting run down in the NFC championship game against San Fran.... :confused:

But had springs - believe he high jumped 7 feet.
 

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Nors said:
You have 10 guys time a 40 and you will probably get 5-8 different times. The 1/10 rule is pretty much a standard and give or take a few hundreths here or there. Its pretty much the standard.


Yes, Nors, if you had read my post you would of seen that "it's probably 1/10 on average", but it's not 1/10 for certain every time. Sometimes a handheld time is actually slower then the electronic time.
 

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Rack said:
Yes, Nors, if you had read my post you would of seen that "it's probably 1/10 on average", but it's not 1/10 for certain every time. Sometimes a handheld time is actually slower then the electronic time.

And lets not forget that football player is 85% of the equation. But a faster football player is usually better than a slower football player. Its the fast track guy that is NOT a football player to be wary of.
 
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