True Crime thread

[Melonfeud]

I was pretty close friends of the parents of that "Brooke Baker" girl featured on "UNSOLVED MYSTERIES", she was a cute little grade schooler back then,I was closer friends w/ her Mom than,,,er,,, never mind

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

Very interesting website here all dedicated to the 1977 Girl Scout murders in NE Oklahoma, It includes the timeline of the case, suspects, victims as well as transcripts of the pre trial and a pretty good wealth of other information
HOME (girlscoutmurders.com)
Nice video here of the location/etc

 

[Bizwah]

I've been reading about the Delphi Murders. I really hope this guy is caught. Very haunting pictures and videos on one of the victim's phones. I hate people who target kids.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Very interesting website here all dedicated to the 1977 Girl Scout murders in NE Oklahoma, It includes the timeline of the case, suspects, victims as well as transcripts of the pre trial and a pretty good wealth of other information
HOME (girlscoutmurders.com)
Nice video here of the location/etc

If I put together a top 10 of most heinous murders this crime would have a great shot at making the list.

It wasn't the most number of victims.

But under the circumstances, 3 little girls in a tent in a Girl Scout camp under the supposed watchful eye of the camp councilors.

It's believed two of the girls were bludgeoned while they slept and then were sexually assaulted. The sequence of events on the 3rd girl are a little more puzzling. When the bodies were found, the two other girls were in rigor mortis, the 3rd girl's body was warmer and she appeared to have been murdered much later.

Just a terrible crime.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Watched "The Town That Dreaded Sundown"– Had not seen it in quite a while.

Anyway I'm sure the folks near Texarkana know all about this film...

A sorta documentary with a little fictionalization thrown in about the "Phantom" killer who committed several lover's lane style killings in the Texarkana area in the spring of 1946.

While the film takes some liberties here and there (the film was made by Charles B. Pierce who also made "The Legend of Boggy Creek") the fundamentals of the film are true.

While there were several suspects, no one was ultimately brought to justice.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

If I put together a top 10 of most heinous murders this crime would have a great shot at making the list.

It wasn't the most number of victims.

But under the circumstances, 3 little girls in a tent in a Girl Scout camp under the supposed watchful eye of the camp councilors.

It's believed two of the girls were bludgeoned while they slept and then were sexually assaulted. The sequence of events on the 3rd girl are a little more puzzling. When the bodies were found, the two other girls were in rigor mortis, the 3rd girl's body was warmer and she appeared to have been murdered much later.

Just a terrible crime.

I remember hearing about it when i was 13 years old and it really creeped me out.......
So many theories have been floated around as to who did it...
Was it Hart?
3 Boys from a nearby Boy Scout camp?
Someone else?
Indian spirits/mysticysm?
How many perps did it take to carry their bodies more than 100 yards away?

Came across this video last night and never seen it before, interesting but who knows if it holds any water.


This is NE Oklahoma you are talking about, rugged terrain as well as more often that not heavily forested areas.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I remember hearing about it when i was 13 years old and it really creeped me out.......
So many theories have been floated around as to who did it...
Was it Hart?
3 Boys from a nearby Boy Scout camp?
Someone else?
Indian spirits/mysticysm?
How many perps did it take to carry their bodies more than 100 yards away?

Came across this video last night and never seen it before, interesting but who knows if it holds any water.


This is NE Oklahoma you are talking about, rugged terrain as well as more often that not heavily forested areas.

My money is on Hart but the footprint found in tent #8 is problematic.

For someone to have the urge to assault girls of that age and murder them in the manner they did takes a special kind of twisted mind and I have a tough time believing any person or person that would have done this would have stopped at this crime. In my mind they would have done this again unless they were caught or died.

Hart was on the run, was caught, was in jail waiting for trial and then went to prison to finish out his previous sentence, which was rape.

Some have proposed an "inside job" for this crime, or in other words a camp councilor. I just don't buy it.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

One other point about this video is that it may have been done prior to the release of the information on the 1989 DNA test.

That test (done on several samples) indicated that the samples came from a native American and that while it did not conclusively prove Hart was the doner, it pointed towards him.

The footprint could have been an accomplice of Hart's.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

My money is on Hart but the footprint found in tent #8 is problematic.

For someone to have the urge to assault girls of that age and murder them in the manner they did takes a special kind of twisted mind and I have a tough time believing any person or person that would have done this would have stopped at this crime. In my mind they would have done this again unless they were caught or died.

Hart was on the run, was caught, was in jail waiting for trial and then went to prison to finish out his previous sentence, which was rape.

Some have proposed an "inside job" for this crime, or in other words a camp councilor. I just don't buy it.

My money is on Hart too, the tools used in the rapes he committed earlier were identical to the ones used in the murders. Sadly i believe the case will never be solved and the families will never know and have at least some semblance of closure.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

One other point about this video is that it may have been done prior to the release of the information on the 1989 DNA test.

That test (done on several samples) indicated that the samples came from a native American and that while it did not conclusively prove Hart was the doner, it pointed towards him.

The footprint could have been an accomplice of Hart's.

That was my next question, did he do it alone? I guess its possible but i question why didn't at least one of the girls run away while the other one/s were being assaulted?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

My money is on Hart too, the tools used in the rapes he committed earlier were identical to the ones used in the murders. Sadly i believe the case will never be solved and the families will never know and have at least some semblance of closure.

Starting in 2017 the Sheriff's department of that county was collecting donations in order to run another DNA test on what little sample is left.

This could put an end to the once that sample is run.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That was my next question, did he do it alone? I guess its possible but i question why didn't at least one of the girls run away while the other one/s were being assaulted?

That's a good question, which I do not have a good answer.

But whoever it was, was very good at being "sneaky".

He could have knocked out two of the girls as soon as he was in the tent, then subdued the third (the oldest, who appeared to have been killed last). He then sexually tied up the other two, sexually assaulted at least one of them, and then bludgeoned/strangled them. He then sexually assaulted the third girl.

I've thought the moving of the bodies was an attempt to get them out of the campground but the perp ran out of time.

I just don't see this being the work of teenage boys. I could see maybe one teenage boy have an infatuation with girls that young, but generally speaking that isn't the case. And to have 2 or 3 teenage boys with the same infatuation and never ever talk about this (and at least one would have had to be native American)– I Just don't buy it.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

Starting in 2017 the Sheriff's department of that county was collecting donations in order to run another DNA test on what little sample is left.

This could put an end to the once that sample is run.

I have read that but cannot find any information on the results if there were any. One would think they would have been available by now.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That was my next question, did he do it alone? I guess its possible but i question why didn't at least one of the girls run away while the other one/s were being assaulted?

Keep in mind the Villisca axe murders... 8 people in the house. No one heard anything.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I have read that but cannot find any information on the results if there were any. One would think they would have been available by now.

Yeah, I keep seeing references to it also.

Gotta be someone here on this site that lives in that area– Get us some answers please!

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

Yeah, I keep seeing references to it also.

Gotta be someone here on this site that lives in that area– Get us some answers please!

There are a few other Okies here on CBZ, haven't seen them pop into this thread though. I live about 2 hours to the SW and the article from 2017 is literally the last dated one i can find online.

 

[Seven]

A little twist to the topic: Last Words.

Derrick Sean O'Brien

O'Brien was one of six members of a fledgling Texas street gang drinking beer after initiating a new gang member. Elizabeth Pena, 16, and Jennifer Ertman, 14, were walking home from a friend's house, taking a shortcut along some railroad tracks when they stumbled upon the group.

Sweet young lives taken.....for a short cut in order to be home on time.

The details are very graphic. I'll leave those out.

The bodies of the two teenage girls were found four days after they failed to return from a friend's house. When the bodies were discovered, they were decomposing and mummifying in 100-degree heat.

O'Brien, who confessed to police, was one of six gang members convicted in the case and the first to be executed. The ninth-grade dropout, who had previous arrests for shoplifting a pistol, assault and auto theft, also was a suspect in a murder six months before the girls were killed but never was charged. Evidence put him at a Houston park where the body of Patricia Lopez, 27, was found. A beer can carrying his fingerprints was found under the remains of the woman.

O'Briens last words: 13 years later on the gurney.

I am sorry. I have always been sorry," O'Brien said, holding his head up and looking straight at relatives of his victims. "It is the worst mistake that I ever made in my whole life. Not because I am here but because of what I did and I hurt a lot of people, you and my family." He repeated again and again that he was sorry.

 

[Seven]

Yeah, I keep seeing references to it also.

Gotta be someone here on this site that lives in that area– Get us some answers please!

John Russell said that Karl Myers confessed to him about the murders of Lori Lee Farmer, 8; Michelle Guse, 9; and Denise Milner, 10, who were found dead June 13, 1977, at the camp near Locust Grove, Okla.

Gene Leroy Hart, a Cherokee man from the Locust Grove area, was charged with killing the girls but was acquitted of the crimes in 1979. He died in prison of an apparent heart attack three months later while serving an unrelated sentence.

John Russell said Myers confessed to him about the murders while each served time in the Ottawa County Jail in 1979.

The movie "Candles” is about the Girl Scout murders, and in it Russell said he would name Myers as the murderer. He said he also plans to name local and state officials from that time period who he believes were complicit in covering Myers’ involvement with the murders.

Russell said he has attempted to give his information to authorities regarding Myers’ alleged confession of the Girl Scout murders, but has not been successful. He added that he felt making a film was his only avenue of getting out the information.

Russell does have a criminal record, which consists of passing bogus checks, embezzlement and defrauding an innkeeper.

Russell said he isn’t proud of his past, but added that if it were not for his background he would not have the knowledge he does about the Camp Scott murders.

Seems we may never know. 01/2013:

The Oklahoma Department of Corrections says 64-year-old Karl Myers was found unresponsive Friday in the medical unit at the prison in McAlester. The department says Myers pronounced dead a short time later.

Please excuse my ignorance if you guys already knew this.......

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

John Russell said that Karl Myers confessed to him about the murders of Lori Lee Farmer, 8; Michelle Guse, 9; and Denise Milner, 10, who were found dead June 13, 1977, at the camp near Locust Grove, Okla.

Gene Leroy Hart, a Cherokee man from the Locust Grove area, was charged with killing the girls but was acquitted of the crimes in 1979. He died in prison of an apparent heart attack three months later while serving an unrelated sentence.

John Russell said Myers confessed to him about the murders while each served time in the Ottawa County Jail in 1979.

The movie "Candles” is about the Girl Scout murders, and in it Russell said he would name Myers as the murderer. He said he also plans to name local and state officials from that time period who he believes were complicit in covering Myers’ involvement with the murders.

Russell said he has attempted to give his information to authorities regarding Myers’ alleged confession of the Girl Scout murders, but has not been successful. He added that he felt making a film was his only avenue of getting out the information.

Russell does have a criminal record, which consists of passing bogus checks, embezzlement and defrauding an innkeeper.

Russell said he isn’t proud of his past, but added that if it were not for his background he would not have the knowledge he does about the Camp Scott murders.

Seems we may never know. 01/2013:

The Oklahoma Department of Corrections says 64-year-old Karl Myers was found unresponsive Friday in the medical unit at the prison in McAlester. The department says Myers pronounced dead a short time later.

Please excuse my ignorance if you guys already knew this.......

Well Myers had committed similar crimes in the same general are which would raise a red flag with me. As for the jailhouse confession to John Russell, who knows? I read somewhere the evidence is still stored with the OSBI here in Oklahoma so i am curious as to why{especially with all the advances in forensics}his body hasn't been exhumed and testing done.

Solving this case would be a heckuva whole lot easier if Hart and Myers were still alive i can tell you that.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

John Russell said that Karl Myers confessed to him about the murders of Lori Lee Farmer, 8; Michelle Guse, 9; and Denise Milner, 10, who were found dead June 13, 1977, at the camp near Locust Grove, Okla.

Gene Leroy Hart, a Cherokee man from the Locust Grove area, was charged with killing the girls but was acquitted of the crimes in 1979. He died in prison of an apparent heart attack three months later while serving an unrelated sentence.

John Russell said Myers confessed to him about the murders while each served time in the Ottawa County Jail in 1979.

The movie "Candles” is about the Girl Scout murders, and in it Russell said he would name Myers as the murderer. He said he also plans to name local and state officials from that time period who he believes were complicit in covering Myers’ involvement with the murders.

Russell said he has attempted to give his information to authorities regarding Myers’ alleged confession of the Girl Scout murders, but has not been successful. He added that he felt making a film was his only avenue of getting out the information.

Russell does have a criminal record, which consists of passing bogus checks, embezzlement and defrauding an innkeeper.

Russell said he isn’t proud of his past, but added that if it were not for his background he would not have the knowledge he does about the Camp Scott murders.

Seems we may never know. 01/2013:

The Oklahoma Department of Corrections says 64-year-old Karl Myers was found unresponsive Friday in the medical unit at the prison in McAlester. The department says Myers pronounced dead a short time later.

Please excuse my ignorance if you guys already knew this.......

Interesting angle, I just do not believe his did it.

Here's what someone else posted in a true crime forum about Myers and the possibility he was the one responsible for the 3 Girl Scouts being murdered...

"In each case, except possibly Shawn Williams, Myers appears to have been acquainted to some degree with the victim. In every case, no exception, no stealth was involved, and each victim was alone when taken. The Girl Scout case doesn't fit well with this since the victims were strangers to him, and there was more than one victim present at the time of the attack. Killers do change their MO, but one might expect those killers to be smarter than Myers who bragged to someone that he knew how to dispose of women's bodies, and that Rocky Point would be a good place to dump a body. Myers was subequently tied by DNA evidence to two women (Williams and Marzano) whose bodies had been found at, you guessed it, Rocky Point."

Also what little DNA evidence there is in the case points toward a native American origin. Have no idea is Myers was native American.