True Crime thread

[Big_D]

There's a Son of Sam documentary being released on Netflix this week for anyone interested.

Lived across the street from this guy back in the 70s. Was friends with his kids? Serial killer Richard Cottingham.

https://www.nydailynews.com/true-cr...0210502-mtau2536ifh2rf6hnjikrga3le-story.html

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

About 4:00PM on July 18, 1984, James Huberty wandered into a McDonalds in San Ysidro, California and did what he had told his wife he was going to do before he left the house and that was– "I'm going to hunt humans".

Between the time he entered the building and the time he was shot and killed by a SWAT team member, almost 90 minutes later, he had shot and killed 21 while wounding 19.

I remember it...

It was like a bolt of lightning had struck.

By 1984 we were use to various serial killer murders that had been occurring the previous 15 years or so, but there hadn't been any large-number mass shootings since Charles Whitman and the University of Texas clock tower in 1966.

What Huberty did was so shocking because we simply weren't use to hearing about mass shootings (then).

Huberty seems to have been the classic case of mass shooter if there is such a thing.

He held a grudge against society because of failed employment (he was fired from his job as a security guard the week before).

But he was having mental problems also. At one point earlier he attempted suicide but his wife stopped him. He also had bouts where he lost touch with reality and had a fascination with war.

On top of this he started collecting weapons.

He did make an attempt to get help by calling a mental health agency nearby but they never returned his phone call.

On July 18th, 1984 he just snapped.

Here's an interesting piece on his daughter who came forward after the San Bernadino mass shootings:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...-james-huberty-interview-2015dec15-story.html

While stationed at Marine Barracks, San Diego Naval Base i ate at that very McDonalds about 5 months earlier. Remember it very well. What a horrible day.

 

[Reality]

There's a Son of Sam documentary being released on Netflix this week for anyone interested.

Lived across the street from this guy back in the 70s. Was friends with his kids? Serial killer Richard Cottingham.

https://www.nydailynews.com/true-cr...0210502-mtau2536ifh2rf6hnjikrga3le-story.html

 

[SlammedZero]

I just wrapped up the Sons of Sam documentary. Very interesting stuff. The conspiracy, whether it had validity or not, completely consumed Maury Terry’s life.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The Donut Shop Murders...

(From "The Murder Sheet") "On early autumn night in 1971, two creepy men visited Winchell's Donut Shop in Salt Lake City. Sherman McCrary and Carl Taylor sipped on coffee, and directed profane remarks at other customers. Then, when the shop had cleared out, they kidnapped Sheri Martin, the young clerk on duty.

It was the beginning of a multi-state robbery and rape and murder spree for the men and their families. At times, McCrary and Taylor even brazenly committed their sexual crimes on women as their own wives sat by, quietly watching."


If you have some time read up on this group... They were as "ugly" a group of people as you could get. Just awful.

Criminality was their "thing". The would run out of money and then they would go hold up a business, kidnap the employees, then rape and murder them.

Then they would run out of money again.

It's estimated that they ended up killing 24.

The "family" consisted of father Sherman McCrary, his wife Carolyn, his son Danny, his daughter Ginger and her husband Raymond Taylor.

Sherman McCrary committed suicide in prison in 1988. Danny McCrary died in prison in 2007. Raymond Taylor is still in prison and is up for a parole hearing this month.

The women had short stints in prison– Many believe they were given more leniency than what they deserve.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

The Donut Shop Murders...

(From "The Murder Sheet") "On early autumn night in 1971, two creepy men visited Winchell's Donut Shop in Salt Lake City. Sherman McCrary and Carl Taylor sipped on coffee, and directed profane remarks at other customers. Then, when the shop had cleared out, they kidnapped Sheri Martin, the young clerk on duty.

It was the beginning of a multi-state robbery and rape and murder spree for the men and their families. At times, McCrary and Taylor even brazenly committed their sexual crimes on women as their own wives sat by, quietly watching."


If you have some time read up on this group... They were as "ugly" a group of people as you could get. Just awful.

Criminality was their "thing". The would run out of money and then they would go hold up a business, kidnap the employees, then rape and murder them.

Then they would run out of money again.

It's estimated that they ended up killing 24.

The "family" consisted of father Sherman McCrary, his wife Carolyn, his son Danny, his daughter Ginger and her husband Raymond Taylor.

Sherman McCrary committed suicide in prison in 1988. Danny McCrary died in prison in 2007. Raymond Taylor is still in prison and is up for a parole hearing this month.

The women had short stints in prison– Many believe they were given more leniency than what they deserve.

Took me a good bit to find pics of the criminals, first thing i thought was they look very normal, the gals even kinda look like they could be librarians. What a sick bunch.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Took me a good bit to find pics of the criminals, first thing i thought was they look very normal, the gals even kinda look like they could be librarians. What a sick bunch.

Here's what Carolyn McCrary wrote:


“I am guilty of staying with my husban while he cometed robberys because I don’t have anywhere to go,” wrote Carolyn, who was described by a probation officer as very limited in both intellectual and social levels. “Most people wont hair because I don’t have an ecition and am in poor helth or am not large enough so I stay with my husban. It may sound crazy but I love him so very much.”


There ya go.

Again, neither of the women served much time.

And I can see both sides of the coin, obviously this lady had some issues on top of being bullied and emotionally abused by her husband.

But it was 1971 and not 1880. She knew what they were doing was horrendous. Both her and her daughter were present during some of the rapes and murders. And they did nothing.

 

[Big_D]

Took me a good bit to find pics of the criminals, first thing i thought was they look very normal, the gals even kinda look like they could be librarians. What a sick bunch.

If you grew up with an amazing family you really feel fortunate after reading about people like this. Playing the cards you're dealt and thankful you weren't born into something like this? Just absolutely disturbing individuals.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

If you grew up with an amazing family you really feel fortunate after reading about people like this. Playing the cards you're dealt and thankful you weren't born into something like this? Just absolutely disturbing individuals.

Yep.

With all the heavy media coverage of crime anymore, you would think that we are much less safe today than we were in the 1970's... We played outside by ourselves... We walked to school... We didn't carry phones... We hitchhiked.

But you look at the statistics from that era as compared to today and we're far safer today... minor crimes... violent crimes. No comparison to the level of violence of the 1970's.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

Found some pics of the Candyman/Dean Corill as well as his accomplices David Brooks and Wayne Henley. Also came across some crime scene photos which{ obviously } i cannot post here.

 

[NorthoftheRedRiver]

Boy, if we understood the cruelty that is perpetrated on people around the world each day, our heads would explode.

 

[Seven]

Yep.

With all the heavy media coverage of crime anymore, you would think that we are much less safe today than we were in the 1970's... We played outside by ourselves... We walked to school... We didn't carry phones... We hitchhiked.

But you look at the statistics from that era as compared to today and we're far safer today... minor crimes... violent crimes. No comparison to the level of violence of the 1970's.

Great point. So very true.

Still though, It isn't going away. School shootings, mall shootings, dance club massacres. They're all swayed by technologies. Easy, mass victims with little to no chance of being injured while commiting the act.

Aftermath...... notoriety. In the end, that's their Holy Grail, unfortunately.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Great point. So very true.

Still though, It isn't going away. School shootings, mall shootings, dance club massacres. They're all swayed by technologies. Easy, mass victims with little to no chance of being injured while commiting the act.

Aftermath...... notoriety. In the end, that's their Holy Grail, unfortunately.

Of course the one thing that has spiked is the mass shooting.

All the things that have improved since the 70's like forensics, improved collaboration between agencies and the explosion of cameras and phone access have drastically cut down instances of serial killers, spree killers and serial rapists but none of those tools are very useful when it comes to stopping the mass shooter.

All those boogeymen of the 1970's did everything they could not to get caught and they sure as heck weren't interested in committing suicide either by their own hand or by cop.

But the mass shooter doesn't care if they live or not. It requires a whole different assortment of prevention methods.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't think Houston ever created a memorial for the victims.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

I don't think Houston ever created a memorial for the victims.

That is sad, was looking at all these poor little boys last night and thinking so many things they never got to do or experience because of those sickos. How horrible.

And before you mentioned it here i had never heard of the crimes, heck my Mother in law who is in her 60s and lived in the Houston area her whole life doesn't remember it.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That is sad, was looking at all these poor little boys last night and thinking so many things they never got to do or experience because of those sickos. How horrible.

And before you mentioned it here i had never heard of the crimes, heck my Mother in law who is in her 60s and lived in the Houston area her whole life doesn't remember it.

Two reasons why it was forgotten quickly... The first being the main perp was dead so there was no trial for him. The second is that the city of Houston wanted it to go away as quickly as possible. It was a horrible black-eye for the city.

And the thing is there were other smaller-number serial killers working the Houston area at about the same time.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The story of the missing Fort Worth Three...

On the morning of Dec. 23, 1974, three girls from three different families set out on a shopping trip to the Seminary South Shopping Center in south Fort Worth, Texas. They were supposed to be home by the end of the day but never came back.

Rachel Arnold Trlica, 17, who had only been married a few months, picked up her friend Renee Wilson, 14, and when little Julie Ann Moseley, who was only 9 and lived across the street from Renee's grandmother, begged to go along received permission to do so from her mother.

Rachel's Oldsmobile was found in the mall parking lot with wrapped Christmas presents in the back seat.

On December 24th, Rachel's husband received a letter in his mail box that was supposedly from Rachel and it stated the 3 girls were headed to Houston for a week and would then return– which then never did.

There's all sorts of weirdness with this case, with the first being that Rachel's husband was initially engaged to be married to Rachel's older sister Debby (aged 19), but the engagement fell through and he ended up marrying Rachel.

Secondly the letter Rachel's husband received did not appear to have come from Rachel.

Mall abductions seem hard to pull off. Especially a couple days before Christmas when the mall was no doubt mobbed.

It seems to me the girls may have been led to a different location with the promise of something (party?) in order to abduct them there.

There were a few eye-witness sightings but nothing concrete.

The police initially said, "Runaways" based on the letter Rachel's husband received and that's what police seemed to say about every missing kid during the 70's and early 80's.

There was, and seeming still is, the belief by at least some in the affected families that somehow Rachel's older sister Debby was involved.

The family's hired a private investigator in the mid-70's who came up with some interesting possibilities of what happened to the girls– Unfortunately the private investigator committed suicide in the 1979 and instructed his family members to burn all of his records.

A sad case. No doubt the girls are probably dead.

I can't imagine being the parent of a 9 year-old and have her disappear on a seemingly innocent Christmas trip to the mall.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

How horrible, especially for the poor families. I can't imagine the pain of not knowing where your loved one is for 47 years.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

January 21, 1962. Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania. Authorities arrive at the burning home of Edward Maps to discover that his wife, Christine, has been bludgeoned to death and their four-month old daughter, Julie Louise, has died of smoke inhalation. Edward Maps himself has disappeared and a warrant is issued for his arrest but he has never been found.

There have been over 900 individuals placed on the FBI's "Most Wanted" list and only 11 have been removed. Maps is one of those.

Why?

Because to this day there is uncertainty on if he killed his family OR was killed himself and the body never being found.

Maps was a reported nice guy but a bit of an oddball who irritated his father-in-law with his somewhat subdued work ethic. On top of that there were rumours of an affair between Maps and his mother-in-law.

On the night of the murder, Maps and his family visited friends and by all accounts nothing seemed unordinary.

At the crime scene neither of the Maps' vehicles had been taken and were were important papers left at the home that Maps would have wanted/needed if he had simply killed his family and taken off.

After the murder there were two reported phone calls to folks that knew Maps but it was never clear if these were legit phone calls or not.

Finally not long after the murders, a bank robbery occurred in a nearby town and the robber supposedly looked like Maps– But again... who knows?

Anyway a case that has stumped many for the past almost 60 years.

 

[timb2]