True Crime thread

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[Hoofbite]

It was 25 years ago when 9-year-old Amber Hagerman was abducted while riding her bike outside an abandoned Winn-Dixie. She was later found dead in a drainage ditch.

Amber’s death gave rise to the Amber Alert system, which is credited with saving almost 800 missing or abducted children across the country.

Thousands of tips later, investigators say they’re no closer to solving the Arlington girl’s slaying.

Amber and her younger brother were riding bikes in a grocery store parking lot just a few blocks from their home on Jan. 13 1996, when a man pulled Amber off the bike and drove away with her in a black pickup truck.

When police found Amber four days later, her throat had been cut. Police haven’t publicly said if the girl was sexually assaulted.

Police have investigated 8,000 tips about Amber’s abduction but said that they are no closer to identifying a suspect than they were in 1996.

It amazes me how simple it is to get a license plate number yet in a state of shock, amazement maybe, that's the last thing most of us think of doing.

In this stage of our lives with all that is at our finger tips.......she may have been saved.

I think many times people are trying to figure out what is actually happening. I once saw a guy attempt to abduct a child while I was walking to school. He pulled up in front of me by about 20 yards and started talking to 2 girls on their way to school. One started to approach the car, but her friend grabbed her by her backpack and stopped her. Car sped off. I didn't even think to look at the license plate and I had a perfect view. Granted, I was a kid, but I was more focused on what was actually happening. Girl the man spoke to later claimed he was asking for help to locate his lost dog or something like that. I'm pretty sure he would have snatched her if she had gotten much closer.

 

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[MichaelWinicki]

Late and haven't checked all the posts, but the Delphi case intrigues the hell out of me.

Those are 1970's/80's kinds of murders that includes a modern twist with the phone evidence.

Surprising that it hasn't been solved, but from my understanding the girls were not sexually assaulted which makes the case rather odd... I mean in most instances where a mature males murders two younger girls some sort of sexual assault takes place.

But there have been several details about the case that have not been revealed/released by the authorities.

I know there have been several suspects, but none seems like a perfect fit.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

John David Norman.

Have you heard the name?

The chances are you have not.

He may be the connecting piece between Dean Corll, John Wayne Gacy and the Oakland County (Michigan) murders.

John David Norman was a pedophile. And if he was only that, it would be bad enough. But he was more, much more...

You see John David Norman was a sex trafficker of boys during the early 1970's out of all places Dallas, Texas.

He operated a newsletter service that advertised specific boys with their pictures and physical descriptions. He had many subscribers across the country. In addition he maintained a library of index cards for all his subscribers.

Dean Corll told others about a group in Dallas that trafficked young boys.

Norman's scheme was discovered and while the whole thing was broken up and the index cards confiscated, John David Norman was never brought up on charges. One possible reason was that the names and addresses found on the index cards represented some of the countries richest and most influential men.

Norman then moved to Homewood, IL and then Chicago where he started his operation all over again.

From there he connected to other pedophiles in the area such as those who many believe were responsible for the Oakland County child killings in 1977 and John Wayne Gacy.

Norman's partner in his operation was a person named Phillip Paske, who also did some work for John Wayne Gacy.

Eventually Norman's Illinois operation was also busted up with the government having renewed interest in stopping the sex trafficking.

There are some who believe that Paske was responsible for some of the bodies buried under Gacy's house, but who knows?

Paske was never brought up on charges.

Norman was eventually arrested for deviant behavior, was paroled and then arrested again for violating parole by trying to pick up young boys.

John David Norman died in 2016, but there is still much of his story that's never been told.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The mugshot below is from a guy named Tommy Zeigler.

On Christmas eve 1975, Zeigler was found shot, and 4 others were found dead in a Florida furniture store owned by the Zeigler family.

Ultimately Tommy Zeigler became the main-suspect, went to trail and was found guilty of 4 counts of murders– which put him on death-row in the state of Florida.

HOWEVER it appears the state of Florida isn't 100% certain he was guilty so the death sentence was never consummated.

This case is unbelievably complicated. The trial Zeigler had was very questionable and if nothing else he should have had a new one– but it never came about.

There are so many different directions and side-stories to this story that I couldn't begin to list them all.

But here are a few links for those interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Zeigler_case

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/new...er-medill-justice-project-20160308-story.html

https://www.tampabay.com/news/court...-to-question-death-row-inmates-guilt/2236115/

https://www.facebook.com/WilliamThomasZeiglerTommyZeiglerIsInnocent/

If you're interested in complicated murder cases this one takes the prize!

 

[MichaelWinicki]

New Jersey man who killed 7-year-old Girl Scout 48 years ago dies in prison (msn.com)


I remember this case.

Just horrible.

Sounds like a wee-bit of good did come out of it.

I've done some reading on this guy over the last few days...

An FBI profiler did an extensive interview with him 25 years after he committed the crime. At that point he was looking to get out (via parole) but that didn't happen.

This murderer was a high school chemistry teacher. He had no previous record. It wasn't like he was going around flashing young girls in his spare time.

But there was something there that caused him to want to kill this young girl when she knocked on his door. He was lived with his mother and grandmother. He lacked self-esteem and was bitter at the world for his position in life. The assault and murder were more about domination than they were a pure sexual attack. He could have been just as likely to go out and randomly shoot people.

And he was smart enough to know that he may get questioned by the police about the missing girl because he lived nearby and figured others may be aware that the girl went to his home.

But that wasn't enough to deter him. His normal rage at society grew worse when she knocked on his door. Here was someone he could control.

 

[Mannix]

I watched for FREE on YouTube last month a Four (4) part documentary on John Wayne Gacy called Devil In Disguise....I thought I's seen everything on him, but boy was I wrong....this documentary is a much watch!!!

I had a friend who worked at Peterbilt in Denton, TX and he met a bunch of guys through a joint venture with Kenworth in the Seattle area....anyway, two of them worked with Gary Ridgway the Green River Killer....the two guys and others always joked to him about always painting his truck a different color....as in "what are you up to Gary?"

 

[jnday]

Since the Golden State Killer has been captured, it leave the Zodiac Killer as my main focus. From my understanding, they don’t have the DNA needed to capture him in the same way that the GSK was captured.

 

[jnday]

The mugshot below is from a guy named Tommy Zeigler.

On Christmas eve 1975, Zeigler was found shot, and 4 others were found dead in a Florida furniture store owned by the Zeigler family.

Ultimately Tommy Zeigler became the main-suspect, went to trail and was found guilty of 4 counts of murders– which put him on death-row in the state of Florida.

HOWEVER it appears the state of Florida isn't 100% certain he was guilty so the death sentence was never consummated.

This case is unbelievably complicated. The trial Zeigler had was very questionable and if nothing else he should have had a new one– but it never came about.

There are so many different directions and side-stories to this story that I couldn't begin to list them all.

But here are a few links for those interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Zeigler_case

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/new...er-medill-justice-project-20160308-story.html

https://www.tampabay.com/news/court...-to-question-death-row-inmates-guilt/2236115/

https://www.facebook.com/WilliamThomasZeiglerTommyZeiglerIsInnocent/

If you're interested in complicated murder cases this one takes the prize!

This case sounds like it a very complicated case which is similar to my daughter’s murder that took place a few years ago. One thing that makes my daughter’s case so complicated is the location. The rural Mississippi county where she was murdered does not have the money for the forensic specialist and the cost that county was need to come up with. I was told from day one that if I had a couple of million to finance the investigation and another couple of million for the trail, then we could get the evidence needed to prove him guilty. The county didn’t have that kind of money to spent on one case.

 

[jnday]

I don’t think they will ever solve this case. I don’t know if they are really even close to having a good suspect.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

This case sounds like it a very complicated case which is similar to my daughter’s murder that took place a few years ago. One thing that makes my daughter’s case so complicated is the location. The rural Mississippi county where she was murdered does not have the money for the forensic specialist and the cost that county was need to come up with. I was told from day one that if I had a couple of million to finance the investigation and another couple of million for the trail, then we could get the evidence needed to prove him guilty. The county didn’t have that kind of money to spent on one case.

I put down a "like" for your post jnday but I don't really like it... I mean it's on the edge of being criminal that your daughter's case wasn't pursued more vigorously by authorities.

And yes the Zeigler case is just a mess.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I watched for FREE on YouTube last month a Four (4) part documentary on John Wayne Gacy called Devil In Disguise....I thought I's seen everything on him, but boy was I wrong....this documentary is a much watch!!!

I had a friend who worked at Peterbilt in Denton, TX and he met a bunch of guys through a joint venture with Kenworth in the Seattle area....anyway, two of them worked with Gary Ridgway the Green River Killer....the two guys and others always joked to him about always painting his truck a different color....as in "what are you up to Gary?"

Agreed on the Gacy documentary.

The guy was pure evil and murdered most, if not all of those young men and boys.

But underneath the murder cases, was the sub-case of sex trafficking that involved many that were never brought to justice.

It seems it was an inside joke (OK morbid joke) that many thought Gary Ridgeway was the GRK.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don’t think they will ever solve this case. I don’t know if they are really even close to having a good suspect.

Agreed. Any solving of this case will have to come from out in left-field.

 

[Ranched]

 

[SlammedZero]

I don’t think they will ever solve this case. I don’t know if they are really even close to having a good suspect.

I thought they had a few pretty good suspects but just not enough evidence to actually nail any specific person.

Crazy to think that they (the police) were so close to catching him in San Francisco too, after he murdered the taxi cab driver. So close he even mocked them later in one of his letters.

 

[HungryLion]

Man I watched these when they first came out. I was really enjoying them………. Then they just ended so abruptly. Almost out of nowhere.


I have been listening to a relatively new podcast.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/zodiac-speaking/id1554911287


it’s not bad.


Zodiac killer is probably the unsolved case(s) that intrigue me the most.

 

[HungryLion]

Since the Golden State Killer has been captured, it leave the Zodiac Killer as my main focus. From my understanding, they don’t have the DNA needed to capture him in the same way that the GSK was captured.

this is the case that frustrates me the most. To be honest man. Baffling that police were so close to catching him, with a patrol car likely having drove right past him after the Presidio Height murder.

And you’re right it’s so hard because against all of the persons of
Interest there is a lot of circumstancial evidence but seemingly no hard forensic evidence to put anyone away.

 

[HungryLion]

Not far from where I live. There was recently two brothers who were found by a state trooper, dumping a body in the woods. Strangely enough, the suspects and victim are all from
New Jersey and as of right now, no known connections to the area.

the suspects are now in jail. This just happened last week. It will be interesting to hear more
Information come out about the case.