Tucson Shop Owner & Employee Kill One Intruder, Wound Three

[Longboysfan]

:laugh2:

Stupid Californians

Got that right. Nancy where are you.....

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Until businesses get slapped down for hiring cheap, easily abuseable labor, you won't see a real change. If nobody was hiring, there wouldn't be even half this problem. But that's rarely addressed.

That is the biggest thing that will make a difference IMO outside of securing the borders.

I noticed the bill addresses that as well but I kind of doubt it will be focused on as much.

The thing that I imagine that happens is a large business has plenty of money, knows how to work the system and more times than not is also a big part of the money pumped into the communities.

It is much easier to go after some illegal aliens with no money compared to a business that can fight back and I can only imagine has enough money for some under the table justice in some cases.

Work on Securing the border as the number 1 priority because if you get rid of 5 illegal immigrants 10 more are crossing over the border as you are escorting the five back. Second is to hit these businesses hard. If you have no job opportunities for the illegal aliens they will not stay around...even if they cross over they will just be crossing through to get to other areas that are willing to hire them.

I have also heard reports of groups of IAs sitting around parking lots of places like Home Depot waiting for construction contractors or ordinary people to stop by and hire a few of them for a days job and pay them under the table.

All they have to do is wait till the people hire them, wait till the job is done and then go and question the person hiring and the people hired about the amount of money paid for the job and the taxes being taken out for the job and while doing that you can of course ask to see ID and that will help you find plenty of illegal aliens at that point.

Too many people focus on the illegal aliens alone instead of the border and the businesses that draw them in.

 

[arglebargle]

I think you are close to the bullseye there, Brain....

Of course, securing the border is easier to say than it is to pay for....

 

[CliffnDallas]

When Hondas robot can mop floors. flip burgers and hang drywall. This will all be moot.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I think you are close to the bullseye there, Brain....

Of course, securing the border is easier to say than it is to pay for....

The money is an issue.

However I would imagine that could be a statewide fund raising thing that could help with an idea to get certain counties to also try to raise money for sections in their own area. They could also ask for volunteers to help do the work and local businesses to help supply some of the materials, local eateries to help supply food and so on and so on. Furthermore I imagine arizona or individuals from Arizona could set up web sites and organizations to have people across the country to donate to the cause, to have businesses or groups donate to the cause.

Do one section, move on to the other, a pay as you go type of deal.

It would not be easy, it might not even work...but I would think that people who are fed up with the issue would find a way to try and make it work. This would also help solidarity in the communities when they know they had a hand in helping secure the border and doing so through respectable and legal means.

Think of all the people who volunteered for the minute man project. People from all over the nation and all in all they did a pretty good job doing it.

 

[Doomsday101]

Businesses currently are punished and fined and the fines have increased substantially over years for this. Yes business should be hit and the illegals deported it is not a 1 way deal both need to be dealt with.

How about Apartment complexes renting to illegals should they be fined?

Many of these things are done now yet run into strong opposition from the special interest groups who want nothing done and in return Washington does nothing.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

As long as America remains a 'land of opportunity', where one can rise above the station they were born into, people will seek to get into this country by all means.

I understand that many foreigners are upset with illegal immigrants from Mexico, because they enter America legally and have to go through the immigration process. But let's not kid ourselves, if other impoverished countries had the luxury of adjacent boarders with the U.S., they would be doing the same thing the Mexicans are doing now.

As many others have pointed out, it is somewhat hypocritical for some to say, 'we need to get rid of all of these illegals' but won't even address all the American Businesses that hire all these illegals. This is one of the reasons why folks like myself give pause to these types of 'movements'.

 

[Doomsday101]

As long as America remains a 'land of opportunity', where one can rise above the station they were born into, people will seek to get into this country by all means.

I understand that many foreigners are upset with illegal immigrants from Mexico, because they enter America legally and have to go through the immigration process. But let's not kid ourselves, if other impoverished countries had the luxury of adjacent boarders with the U.S., they would be doing the same thing the Mexicans are doing now.

As many others have pointed out, it is somewhat hypocritical for some to say, 'we need to get rid of all of these illegals' but won't even address all the American Businesses that hire all these illegals. This is one of the reasons why folks like myself give pause to these types of 'movements'.

ICE has come under heavy fire by Washington for these raids they hit several business making several arrest including owners of the business and in the end it was ICE who was raked over the coals by these immigration advocacy groups and Washington buckled under it.

You tie the hands of those trying to do their job and nothing will get done. Until the American people stand up and say enough is enough we want our border secure nothing is going to get done.

The united states does not have any obligation to the people of Mexico they do however have an obligation to our own citizens

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

As long as America remains a 'land of opportunity', where one can rise above the station they were born into, people will seek to get into this country by all means.

I understand that many foreigners are upset with illegal immigrants from Mexico, because they enter America legally and have to go through the immigration process. But let's not kid ourselves, if other impoverished countries had the luxury of adjacent boarders with the U.S., they would be doing the same thing the Mexicans are doing now.

As many others have pointed out, it is somewhat hypocritical for some to say, 'we need to get rid of all of these illegals' but won't even address all the American Businesses that hire all these illegals. This is one of the reasons why folks like myself give pause to these types of 'movements'.

I doubt most have a problem with people coming over wanting to do better for themselves and family. Where the trouble comes in is those people doing that but not going through the process.

People come in illegally and not only do you have a problem with them getting services, work and other things without paying taxes but you also have the problem of accurate reporting of the number of people in a given area which can hurt a local, county or state when trying to determine how much to spend or use on a certain issue because they don't have reliable data. You also have the problem of not knowing the number or individuals when it might come to a crime committed.

I know you probably agree with those points but just wanted to throw them out there.

I don't know if the problem with them not going through the proper channels is a time or location issue. Don't know if they first attempt to do that but are told it will take a very long time for the process to start. Don't know how much that issue comes into play. I would have to imagine there are some that do try to go through the process but find that the process is just not working for them so sooner or later they take matters into their own hands. I also wonder if there are those that feel threatened, legit threat, from drug cartels or their own government so they seek asylum in the US only to be rebuffed or put on a waiting list and they just can't wait because they feel if they do they will be killed.

I know there are many circumstances involved. It is a rare thing when an issue is all black or white because most times there are gray areas in there. But I think most of the IAs would be best served trying to go through the process...even if it is after they had already crossed over.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

ICE has come under heavy fire by Washington for these raids they hit several business making several arrest including owners of the business and in the end it was ICE who was raked over the coals by these immigration advocacy groups and Washington buckled under it.

You tie the hands of those trying to do their job and nothing will get done. Until the American people stand up and say enough is enough we want our border secure nothing is going to get done.

The united states does not have any obligation to the people of Mexico they do however have an obligation to our own citizens

I don't feel like doing 'google' searches but I just have a strong feeling that one of America's dirty little secrets is that they really don't care as much as they say they do about fixing the borders.

Will 'a lot' of Americans, especially the ones on border states be extremely vocal about fixing the borders and 'maybe' write their congressman every now and then? Yes, but at the end of the day, I really believe this, they enjoy the cheaper services that 'all' immigrants (right now it just happens to be Mexicans but it was another group before that) tend to provide in our society historically.

So yes, on one hand folks in America will moan and whine about 'those' illegal aliens but will not hesitate to hire one (whether they know it or not) to provide services for them. I've lived in Dallas my entire life and I have seen this over and over again.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't feel like doing 'google' searches but I just have a strong feeling that one of America's dirty little secrets is that they really don't care as much as they say they do about fixing the borders.

Will 'a lot' of Americans, especially the ones on border states be extremely vocal about fixing the borders and 'maybe' write their congressman every now and then? Yes, but at the end of the day, I really believe this, they enjoy the cheaper services that 'all' immigrants (right now it just happens to be Mexicans but it was another group before that) tend to provide in our society historically.

So yes, on one hand folks in America will moan and whine about 'those' illegal aliens but will not hesitate to hire one (whether they know it or not) to provide services for them. I've lived in Dallas my entire life and I have seen this over and over again.

I'm sure they don't as the government has a lot of big money backers. And they are the ones employing the illegals. Although with outsourcing to different countries, and the biggest government backers being the Medical and TV industry (where it's hard to get a job being an illegal). I can see them starting to care a little bit more now.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't feel like doing 'google' searches but I just have a strong feeling that one of America's dirty little secrets is that they really don't care as much as they say they do about fixing the borders.

Will 'a lot' of Americans, especially the ones on border states be extremely vocal about fixing the borders and 'maybe' write their congressman every now and then? Yes, but at the end of the day, I really believe this, they enjoy the cheaper services that 'all' immigrants (right now it just happens to be Mexicans but it was another group before that) tend to provide in our society historically.

So yes, on one hand folks in America will moan and whine about 'those' illegal aliens but will not hesitate to hire one (whether they know it or not) to provide services for them. I've lived in Dallas my entire life and I have seen this over and over again.

It is costing us big time here in Houston alone it has cost us over 600 million over the last 3 years in a time that cities are trying to keep their heads above water we can't afford this non sense any longer.

I have lived in Texas my entire life the call to control out border has always been loud. In the 80's we were told by the Feds that the Borders would be secured and the illegal’s already here would be given amnesty well the amnesty part happened and now the same BS talk by Washington is happening again.

We can't handle the large flow of illegal’s others parts of the US may not see this as a problem those of us who live down here it is a big problem


Groups like LARAZA and other immigrations advocacy groups have done a great job of pressuring Washington running around hollering racism when any action is taken and now days you say racism and these cowards duck and hide no one is willing to stand up and call their bluff.

 

[Hostile]

Until businesses get slapped down for hiring cheap, easily abuseable labor, you won't see a real change. If nobody was hiring, there wouldn't be even half this problem. But that's rarely addressed.

That will be the biggest benefit of this bill IMO. It will make it not a wise move to hire illegal aliens and the job industry will feel the effects. IMO those effects will be positive. Meaning jobs for Arizonans and taxes back in the system, etc.

Like I said, if this starts to work other states will follow. It should have been the Fed leading the way, but they haven't.

 

[Hostile]

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

--George Orwell

 

[DallasCowpoke]

So, the Political Zone is back open?

 

[Maikeru-sama]

So, the Political Zone is back open?

:laugh2:

 

[Hostile]

So, the Political Zone is back open?

I'll close the thread.

Sorry we let it go this far. It wasn't meant to offend anyone.