Turpin Replacement?

[dstew60105]

Who do we have on the roster that could return punts and kickoffs if we were to trade or cut Kavonte Turpin? Seems like Mingo and Camden Brown could both play special teams and give you more versatility on offense. I know Caleb Downs has returned kicks in the past but not sure I want to put more on his plate

He's not getting cut or traded.

 

[Kwyn]

If he still has speed, then he needs to be the return guy, IMO. I get the Turpin distrust. I feel the same way. I always worry he will drop the pass, or fumble the ball, which looks too big for him.

If you want to put your mind at ease about ball security, particularity with returns, this should help.

Post in thread 'Turpin Replacement?'
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/turpin-replacement.546057/post-14896191

That’s just special teams but Turpins “all-in-turnover” rate of 1.08%, which includes all lost fumbles across every touch, whether offensive or special teams, is also elite.

Neither of those are about drop rate which you also had concerns about. In that respect, he’s the best amongst all cowboys receivers (2.6%)

Turpin: 2.6%
Pickens 2.9%
Fluornoy: 3.6%
Lamb: 6.8%

Lamb was actually sixth highest in the league

The bottom line is that Turpin is one of the most sure handed ball handlers on the team over the his career.

The only Cowboy player with better rates on fumbles, drops and catch percentage is Ferguson

His hands are a key reason why he is a return specialist to begin with. Being a great returner isn’t about scoring touchdowns. It’s about ball security and field position.

I understand that propel see his frame and remember a play here or there where he mishandled a kick, like the one he returned for 99 yards but those are jsut the ways our memory works.

I think of Jackie Smith who will forever be a viewed as havifn hands of stone, dropping an easy touchdown in the Super Bowl, and not the man who redefined the tight end position during his career.

For anyone wondering I used pro football reference advanced receiving database for this

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Already established I watch every game at least twice. Turpin is FAR from ordinary.

Coaching still matters in this league. The Cowboys have perhaps the worst special teams coach in the league. This isn't something random it's well known. Lots of good posts in this thread showing how effective Turpin still is.

Can you show me where he has ever lead the league in punt returner average? Can’t use the league changes because it hasn’t affected the punting game. Can’t use coaching because he wasn’t a leader in the punt returner average game before last year either.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Can you show me where he has ever lead the league in punt returner average? Can’t use the league changes because it hasn’t affected the punting game. Can’t use coaching because he wasn’t a leader in the punt returner average game before last year either.

Turpin's stats:

2022 5th in punt return avg yds, no TDs; 7th in K return average for players with at least 20 returns, O TD

2023 60th in punt return average yds, (32nd of returners with at least 13 returns), no TDs; Only 10 KO returns, one of the higher averages with 29.2 yds, no TDs

2024 23rd in punt return average yds, 1 TD (6th highest of returners with at least 18 returns; 33.5 yd average, highest of returners with significant number of returns, 1 TD

2025 58th in punt return average yds (34th of returners with at least 10 returns), 0 TDS; 60th in KO return average (13th or returners with at least 20 returns), 0 TDs

So...one punt return TD, one Kickoff return TD. One very good year in punt return yardage. One premier year of kickoff returns, two with good averages but only one of those with a significant number of returns.

Pretty good, but not great. Can only blame one year on coaching because he had Fassel in 22-24.

 

[Acceptablename]

Yep, that 5.5 yds per punt return last year was amazing. Or the fact he only actually returned 10 punts all year. Chimere Dike had 23 returns, two for TD's and a 17.5 yd return average.

Interesting

 

[Bobhaze]

I get it that Turpin has been a great return man for special teams. He’s been an All Pro 1st and 2nd team two years in a row. But is that alone enough to keep him? Maybe. But also maybe not.

Because if Cam Brown or Jonathan Mingo or someone else were to take over return duties, would this team be worse? Turpin’s returns have amounted to one or two big plays a year. And they were big plays. But is it enough? Worth asking IMO.

I’ve always liked Turpin for one thing : SPEED. But if that’s all he really brings to the table, is he worth putting a guy who’s cheaper and appearing to emerge like Ringo or Brown, but risk losing one of them because we can’t lose Turpin?

It’s a good question to ask and a good problem to have IMO.

 

[Kwyn]

Interesting

I countered that in a previous post if you’re looking for a less single point of comparison argument.

 

[Kwyn]

I get it that Turpin has been a great return man for special teams. He’s been an All Pro 1st and 2nd team two years in a row. But is that alone enough to keep him? Maybe. But also maybe not.

Because if Cam Brown or Jonathan Mingo or someone else were to take over return duties, would this team be worse? Turpin’s returns have amounted to one or two big plays a year. And they were big plays. But is it enough? Worth asking IMO.

I’ve always liked Turpin for one thing : SPEED. But if that’s all he really brings to the table, is he worth putting a guy who’s cheaper and appearing to emerge like Ringo or Brown, but risk losing one of them because we can’t lose Turpin?

It’s a good question to ask and a good problem to have IMO.

Bob, I’m afraid you’re leaning into the trap that TDs are the reason returners exist.

I have a detailed post above discussing the 1% lottery ticket illusion that returns are about “big plays” in “big games”

Return games are built to be about ball security and field position, not home runs.

I don’t think the team should jsut keep trying new people, none of whom have returned more than 3 kickoffs in their career (and zero punts), until we think we’ve found one that gets TDs 2% of the time instead of 1%.

Gayle Sayers was a mind boggling 6%. Devin Hester, the greatest return man of all time was 3.1% (but see my previous detailed post about his very high turnover rate compared to Turpin’s elite ball security metrics).

We don’t have a Sayers or a Hester, so give me the guy who has consistently been one of the best in the league and doesn’t give opposing teams the ball.

And maybe we could get a real special teams coach to help him out.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Those 69 plays, nearly five per game, forced Sorensen to make a decision to limit punt returns. What? Sorenson limited his punt returns? Who took his place? LOL. Dallas had 28 punt return opportunities. Turpin returned 10 of them and fair caught 15. That means Sorenson limited him by having someone else accept 3 punts.

Unlike kickoffs, which had a rules changes, punt returners still have gunners sprinting 40 yards to blast them.

If you want to see what he can do with punts when he’s not returning so many kicks, look at 2024 when he averaged over ten yards per. Even considering only returners with a similar amount of returns, he was 6th in average....and that was with Bones Fassel.

Dike had an amazing rookie year when it came to special teams. On offense he was mainly blocking and running clear outs for other receivers, but the titans weren’t even remotely competitive, had nothing going on, and basically the coaches loaded the rookie up as an experiment to see what would happen. Dike had 48 catches...He wasn't just blocking and running clear outs. Just a complete excuse.

 

[Bobhaze]

Bob, I’m afraid you’re leaning into the trap that TDs are the reason returners exist.

I have a detailed post above discussing the 1% lottery ticket illusion that returns are about “big plays” in “big games”

Return games are built to be about ball security and field position, not home runs.

I don’t think the team should jsut keepp trying new people until we think we find one that gets TDs 2% of the time instead of 1%.

Gayle Sayers was a mind boggling 6%. Devin Hester, the greatest return man of all time was 3.1% (but see my previous detailed post about his very high turnover rate compared to Turpin’s elite ball security metrics).

We don’t have a Sayers or a Hester, so give me the guy who has consistently been one of the best in the league.

And maybe we get a real special teams coach to help him out.

Great points Kwyn. And I agree with you. I’m just asking the rhetorical question, “Are we better with Turpin on this team, or the same?”

I’m not at all saying Turpin should be cut. But I am saying should we be open to it if it makes us better overall? I think most of us as fans get too attached to a player and it can blind you to what could make us better.

Turpin is not a great receiver. He’s good but obviously his biggest value is in the return game. I’m just saying it’s not out of the question to consider parting ways.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Great points Kwyn. And I agree with you. I’m just asking the rhetorical question, Are we better with Turpin on this team, or the same?”

I’m not at all saying Turpin should be cut. But I am saying should we be open to it if it makes us better overall? I think most of us as fans get too attached to a player and it can blind you to what could make us better.

Turpin is not a great receiver. He’s good but obviously his biggest value is in the return game. I’m just saying it’s not out of the question to consider parting ways.

Turpin possibly could bring a possible candidate at T.....if you arent scared of what is going on at RT in particular then I think you are heading your head in the sand. Steele is gonna get Dak killed, and no one else has looked even remotely decent in the spot. Turpin does have value to get us maybe a 4th or 5th round pick....but I would rather a player for player swap.

And maybe the decline isn't even Turpin's fault. Maybe you can blame it 100% on the special teams coach. But guess what? Special teams coach is still here. If he sucks as badly as many people suggest....then the return schemes aren't going to get any better.

Most likely, Turpin will be back. That doesn't mean alternatives shouldn't be considered. I remember Lamb being a pretty good returner as a rookie. If we were willing to use a number one pick as a returner then, maybe we would be willing to use Downs there. Downs had a couple of punt return TDs in college in very limited usage.

 

[erod]

Turpin's stats:

2022 5th in punt return avg yds, no TDs; 7th in K return average for players with at least 20 returns, O TD

2023 60th in punt return average yds, (32nd of returners with at least 13 returns), no TDs; Only 10 KO returns, one of the higher averages with 29.2 yds, no TDs

2024 23rd in punt return average yds, 1 TD (6th highest of returners with at least 18 returns; 33.5 yd average, highest of returners with significant number of returns, 1 TD

2025 58th in punt return average yds (34th of returners with at least 10 returns), 0 TDS; 60th in KO return average (13th or returners with at least 20 returns), 0 TDs

So...one punt return TD, one Kickoff return TD. One very good year in punt return yardage. One premier year of kickoff returns, two with good averages but only one of those with a significant number of returns.

Pretty good, but not great. Can only blame one year on coaching because he had Fassel in 22-24.

This is not how this works at all. How many 32 yard punts to avoid him altogether? Tons.

 

[erod]

Stop

The coaches love Turpin as a returner. He's going nowhere.

His receiver role will diminish however.

 

[Bobhaze]

Turpin possibly could bring a possible candidate at T.....if you arent scared of what is going on at RT in particular then I think you are heading your head in the sand. Steele is gonna get Dak killed, and no one else has looked even remotely decent in the spot. Turpin does have value to get us maybe a 4th or 5th round pick....but I would rather a player for player swap.

And maybe the decline isn't even Turpin's fault. Maybe you can blame it 100% on the special teams coach. But guess what? Special teams coach is still here. If he sucks as badly as many people suggest....then the return schemes aren't going to get any better.

Most likely, Turpin will be back. That doesn't mean alternatives shouldn't be considered. I remember Lamb being a pretty good returner as a rookie. If we were willing to use a number one pick as a returner then, maybe we would be willing to use Downs there. Downs had a couple of punt return TDs in college in very limited usage.

Turpin in a trade….probably wouldn’t be able to get a 4th. Maybe a 6th. But yeah I would consider a trade for Turpin for sure.

The bottom line is, every team should be open to make moves to get better.

 

[offlimits]

Where is all this Turpin hate coming from?

I love the kid- he's tough as nails and so much fun to watch!

 

[Aven8]

They have nobody to replace Turpin which is exactly why they shouldn't.

This. Yes Lamb and GP are fast but they aren’t fast like that. The speed element is needed here.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You would think they would try Blue

They’ve tried and he’s sucked

 

[Cowboyny]

They’ve tried and he’s sucked

He was returning kicks last week

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

He was returning kicks last week

Yep and sucked.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

This is not how this works at all. How many 32 yard punts to avoid him altogether? Tons.

Yes, gotta get away from that 5.5 average…it’s a game changer.