Tush Push

khiladi

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It’s common sense. If they wanted him he would be there. You didn’t even know Moore was calling plays from Sirianni’s playbook lol…..so it’s hard to take your opinion serious on this matter.
No he isn’t. You don’t know what you are talking about. They were dead last in pre-snap with Sirianni, now they are in the top just like the Chargers were with Moore snd are running way more RPOs with Hurts..

This is like you Dak fanboys having to leach into the Dak sucks because he’s running Garrett’s offense when all was said and done

And common sense is the Chargers though the benefit of having Harbaugh here outweighed Moore as OC, which is fine..

And the Eagles picked up Moore immediately.. the offense they faced 2 times a year..
 
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88sAndHeartbreak

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People bashed Moore with complete ignorance. As soon as Moore took over, there were changes in the offense.


So tell me how does that contradict anything I said?
Your orginal post (first quoted post) referenced the Eagles overall motion percentage. Neither the Cowboys, Kellen nor Dak were 24th in overall motion in 2021.

Please correct me if Im wrong.
 

khiladi

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Your orginal post (first quoted post) referenced the Eagles overall motion percentage. Neither the Cowboys, Kellen nor Dak were 24th in overall motion in 2021.

Please correct me if Im wrong.
So what was my post about?

Did it change anything I said about the usage of Moore with the Chargers and Eagles, as opposed to the usage with the Cowboys?

Or how McCarthy used it sparingly until the bye, when they increased it back to Moore levels basically when here?
 

88sAndHeartbreak

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So what was my post about?

Did it change anything I said about the usage of Moore with the Chargers and Eagles, as opposed to the usage with the Cowboys?

Or how McCarthy used it sparingly until the bye, when they increased it back to Moore levels basically when here?
What I referenced disproves what you said (quoted below) about Dak's inability to run motion. Kellen ran motion 48% with the Cowboys, which was around the league average.
Buddy, Dallas was one of the lowest in pre-snap usage with Moore here. For example, in 2021 they were 24th
Moore did everything to adjust for Mr. Bonehead behind center.
I wasn't trying to answer every question you asked.
 

HungryLion

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No he isn’t. You don’t know what you are talking about. They were dead last in pre-snap with Sirianni, now they are in the top just like the Chargers were with Moore snd are running way more RPOs with Hurts..

This is like you Dak fanboys having to leach into the Dak sucks because he’s running Garrett’s offense when all was said and done

And common sense is the Chargers though the benefit of having Harbaugh here outweighed Moore as OC, which is fine..

And the Eagles picked up Moore immediately.. the offense they faced 2 times a year..


It’s only a matter of time until Kellen gets a head coaching gig. I believe he is clearly one of the more respected young OC’s in the league.
 

ApolytonGP

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They had replacements for the top two principals that made it work in this game. Which means it’s reproducible and teams should spend at any costs to do so because it confers unfair advantages.

Which division rivals know it’s coming, line up offsides, and still can’t stop it, it should become the focus of any offense until banned.
1. Before 2006, it was illegal to assist the runner. The NFL just decided to legalize it, because they thought it was hard to call.



2. Before the assisting the runner rule change (i.e. from 1800s through 2005), there was some exploitation that teams would do by having a blocker sort of hit the pile that a runner was stuck in, ostensibly to block, but realistically pushing the ball carrier forward also. However, now that it's actually legal, teams do on purpose organized QB sneaks with a pusher.

3. It would be very simple for the NFL to go back to the traditional pre 2006 rule. Sure there would be some cases of [2] that might be harder to call. But it would stop the outright tush push strategy, that (I think) it was never an objective to actively incentivize.

4. Note that not all of the skill/strategy/expertise of a team like Philly would go away if the tush push were illegal. QB sneaks are an old part of the game for short yardage. And having a low/large offensive line fire straight ahead is a very typical goal line, short yardage strategy. So, they would still retain a lot of advantage, given how good they are now. They just would not be allowed to push the runner forward.

---------

Similarly, it is hard to catch offensive holding that is done inside the pads, but it is still illegal to grasp the jersey. If the NFL actually made it legal there would be all out Cosmi-ing of every defender and even more of a change in strategy and more of an advantage to the O line. Note that before 1977, open handed blocking itself was illegal...grasping the jersey is still illegal but now harder to call. To the extent that many football fans have started to think holding ITSELF is legal. E.g. I see comments of "what a great block" on obvious (in replay) holding. And hatred for refs for sometimes calling the illegal-but-harder-to-catch holding instances.

In reality, almost every recent rule change has been to aid the offense. In addition to the major change to blocking rules in 1977 that made legal blocks easier (and illegal ones much harder to catch), there was a major change to pass defense rules in 1977. You used to be able to chip the receiver as long as the ball was not in the air, no matter how far downfield.

(I actually played this way in HS as the rule change had not percolated down yet when I played SS. Used to abuse much larger TEs...I knew they wouldn't be getting the ball anyway and by the TEs running downfield, I would be out of position for most tackling....so I just got my inner Pat Fisher out by hitting the big guys. So at least I got some contact in...used to really piss the TEs off. I wasn't hurting them...but they didn't like it anyways.)

Most of the recent rules on protecting QBs and receivers and kick recipients are to benefit the offense. And you totally see offenses exploiting them now. Late slides by QBs for instance or dancing near the line. I definitely don't agree with hitting a player after the ball is dead, when the defender has time to stop the contact. But I don't think you should fault the defender from starting the split second action to tackle or knock out of bounds a player that is still live, when the defender has to make the decision. But I see fans all the time now who think a DB is "dirty" when he hits a QB that makes a last second slide (sometimes not even hips on the ground at the instance contact happens...same with the offsides dancing). This is really inhibiting normal downhill tacking by a safety coming from distance. Here, just a rules interpretation to caution offenses on late slides and sideline games (that they are fair game and fouls won't be called, for defenders that initiate the motion to hit, while ball is live) would be enough to change the strategy. But then most casual fans "get wet" (Cf. Draft Day movie, not sexual) from offense, not defense. Just look how ESPN chat shows position competitions as QB versus QB (as if they boxed each other.)
 
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TheMarathonContinues

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No he isn’t. You don’t know what you are talking about. They were dead last in pre-snap with Sirianni, now they are in the top just like the Chargers were with Moore snd are running way more RPOs with Hurts..

This is like you Dak fanboys having to leach into the Dak sucks because he’s running Garrett’s offense when all was said and done

And common sense is the Chargers though the benefit of having Harbaugh here outweighed Moore as OC, which is fine..

And the Eagles picked up Moore immediately.. the offense they faced 2 times a year..
Eagles beat reporter verbatim said it’s Sirianni’s offense and you are arguing against it because he’s running motion as if he can’t add motion to his offense lol. Unbelievable.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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The offenses here with the cowboys were consistently top 5 with Kellen.

I think he is a good OC.
I never said he was a bad OC here. I’m arguing against this stupid notion that it’s not the All Pros Eagles have that make it successful it’s Kellen Moore. Eagles offense was successful before he got there. Then you bring in the Chargers and excuses are made.
 

charron

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The Cowboys to not have the coaches who have shown the ability to teach technical concepts to an entire group of guys and actually have them execute it at a high level.
 

Blue&Silver

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Wow, how much do you talk online about gaming, when your autocorrect changes "we" to "Wii"?
:laugh:
AutoCorrect? Where? And how do I get 1? Honestly, I don't know what happened. I have a tendency to dictate we'll, but "will" comes out more times than not. If I don't reread, or catch it with my eyes it stays. I don't have anything called AutoCorrect. My eyes aren't great anymore.
 

Runwildboys

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AutoCorrect? Where? And how do I get 1? Honestly, I don't know what happened. I have a tendency to dictate we'll, but "will" comes out more times than not. If I don't reread, or catch it with my eyes it stays. I don't have anything called AutoCorrect. My eyes aren't great anymore.
I assume you're using your phone? If so, it suggests 3 words as you type, and you can just touch the word you want instead of spelling it out? If that's the case, whatever word is in the center is usually the word that gets inserted, if you don't touch the screen. That's what I refer to as "autocorrect"...or more accurately, "automistake".
 

HungryLion

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I never said he was a bad OC here. I’m arguing against this stupid notion that it’s not the All Pros Eagles have that make it successful it’s Kellen Moore. Eagles offense was successful before he got there. Then you bring in the Chargers and excuses are made.


I mean that’s fair. I think it’s both. The eagles offense is absolutely stacked with talent. No doubt. But Kellen is also a good OC.
 

Chasing6

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I was in denial the last few seasons that Jason Kelce was the big reason. And Hurts squats 800 lbs or whatever so that’s why. But if you can run it effectively with a replacement center and QB, then it should be malpractice if that’s not the primary play we perfect this offseason, as we fix the whole running game.

The luxury it affords you is both underestimated and undeniable. You can run the ball on 3rd and 5 knowing you’ll get the first on 4th down with a decent gain. The 3rd and 1 throw to Mingo could actually be great play where you take advantage of favorable coverage on a particular down, knowing that you are guaranteed to pick up a 1st on 4th and 1.

Between Smith, Bebe, and whatever upgrade with get at RG, this should be the ultimate priority this off
I really don't understand the madness of goaline offense on short yardage. Especially when some teams struggle to run the ball.

Why not send out 3 TE personnel, and watch the defense do so accordingly.

Then spread out your 3 TE's wide, send 1 RB in motion and create a bunch of running lanes for a RB to run through, for a QB sneak or if you like take the miss match at TE or on the RB in the passing game.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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I mean that’s fair. I think it’s both. The eagles offense is absolutely stacked with talent. No doubt. But Kellen is also a good OC.
I don’t know what makes him good but he’s had success….if I’m starting a team he’s not the first or second or even the 10th guy I think of.
 

Blue&Silver

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I assume you're using your phone? If so, it suggests 3 words as you type, and you can just touch the word you want instead of spelling it out? If that's the case, whatever word is in the center is usually the word that gets inserted, if you don't touch the screen. That's what I refer to as "autocorrect"...or more accurately, "automistake".
Sounds convenient. No, I'm using a desktop. I still carry a flip phone and text messaging is too much trouble on that.
 

Runwildboys

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Sounds convenient. No, I'm using a desktop. I still carry a flip phone and text messaging is too much trouble on that.
Weird. I wonder why it spelled "Wii" instead of "We". I haven't owned a desktop in decades. I wonder if they change words too.
 
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