Twin TE Formation (the 3-4 of offense?)

[hogwild]

While I'm not ecstatic about Kosier, he has started for SF (when they were decent) and Detroit. When I did my statistical study of all starting O-Linemen in the league, Kosier finished 16th for LG's and Larry Allen finished 20th. My problem with Allen is that he became incredibly one dimensional last year and D-Linemen started to shoot gaps from different angles and he couldn't get a hold of them anymore. He was awful in his backside blocking. It also didn't help that he doesn't really fit the Parcells blocking scheme which prefers having mobile O-Linemen who can get out in space and pull. To Kosier's credit, I think he at least fits the scheme better than Allen does at this point.

Fabini only started partially last year, so I couldn't really use my stats on him.

However, in 2004 he finished as the 2nd best LT according to my stats, behind Walter Jones. He was pretty average in pass blocking, but he led the league in run blocking.

Now, I don't believe my stat analysis of O-Linemen is completely concrete, but I think it gives a decent ballpark figure of how O-Linemen are doing.

It's not a question of if a healthy Fabini is an upgrade over Big Rob, it's by how much.

Rich........

well
I say we will miss LA... JMO
Fabini may have been good 2 yrs ago , but that don't guarantee anything
this yr. It may surprise you that Rob takes a big jump this yr, but not me.
It's not a given that Fabini will be better than RP, until it's proven in training
camp... Fabini didn't sign for alot of $ ... that may have been the 1st sign
of the end for him being a starter in this league.
Now i hope all my concerns are unfounded, but nobody thus far has convinced
me we're fine on the OL

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

well
I say we will miss LA... JMO
Fabini may have been good 2 yrs ago , but that don't guarantee anything
this yr. It may surprise you that Rob takes a big jump this yr, but not me.
It's not a given that Fabini will be better than RP, until it's proven in training
camp... Fabini didn't sign for alot of $ ... that may have been the 1st sign
of the end for him being a starter in this league.
Now i hope all my concerns are unfounded, but nobody thus far has convinced
me we're fine on the OL

And there is also no guarantee that any rookie we brought in at any round would be able to be worth a flip. You have to play percentages as everything entails an elemnt of risk. The only difference is that at most positions weve covered our bets.

At guard we pick two of Rivera, Kosier, Peterman, Noll, and Gurode.

At center we have Johnson and Gurode.

At tackle we pick tow of Fabini, Adams, Pettiti and Columbo.

While its not perfect we have quite a bit of competition unlike our safety position from last year hwere it was Davis and a prayer.

 

[hogwild]

And there is also no guarantee that any rookie we brought in at any round would be able to be worth a flip. You have to play percentages as everything entails an elemnt of risk. The only difference is that at most positions weve covered our bets.

At guard we pick two of Rivera, Kosier, Peterman, Noll, and Gurode.

At center we have Johnson and Gurode.

At tackle we pick tow of Fabini, Adams, Pettiti and Columbo.

While its not perfect we have quite a bit of competition unlike our safety position from last year hwere it was Davis and a prayer.

at guard we have : an injured player, a journeyman noone had heard of
be honest, nobody,nobody,nobody
at center we have : underacheiver (sp), crap
at tackle we have : injured vet, injured vet, 2nd yr shell-shocked hard-nosed
plays hurt Player, and an injured player who was a high
draft pick who has never got on the field.

I want competition from better players. Crap by anyother name is still Crap
I believe we have improved in prolly all other areas, but
not in the OL. I believe we will be calling for BP head about the middle of Oct.
for not fixing the most glaring need of this team.... I could be wrong/i could
be right too.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

at guard we have : an injured player, a journeyman noone had heard of
be honest, nobody,nobody,nobody
at center we have : underacheiver (sp), crap
at tackle we have : injured vet, injured vet, 2nd yr shell-shocked hard-nosed
plays hurt Player, and an injured player who was a high
draft pick who has never got on the field.

I want competition from better players. Crap by anyother name is still Crap
I believe we have improved in prolly all other areas, but
not in the OL. I believe we will be calling for BP head about the middle of Oct.
for not fixing the most glaring need of this team.... I could be wrong/i could
be right too.

Wow that was just so full of insight. Thanks.

And I had forgotten why I drive through the deep south to get to VA instead of Arkansas.

 

[PacoReloaded]

I still see people complaining about getting Fasano in the 2nd round...

You do realize that we're dropping the fullback position from the roster right?

The twin tight end formation is like the 3-4 on offense in the sense that it leaves the defense guessing, or more acurately keeps the defense honest.

We play the formation all day, and then they really don't know what to expect. They can't blitz willy nilly, and that helps protect bledsoe in addition to having 7 offensive linemen (5+2).

It also opens up holes for the running game as teams will eventually drop in the nickel to contain Witten. And when teams remain in the 4-3, they'll spread out their linebackers in order to contain the possible run on both sides.

Do you realize he also has back problems which was pointed out by Ireland in a recent interview that scared many teams from drafting him that high or possibly even later?

 

[Hiero]

Let me be the first to say i don't believe it will be nearly as effective
as most of you. The OL still has to be better than average...and i don't
see that we have improved over last yr. Flo coming off injury...LA gone
...Some guy who couldn't even start on other teams.(Kosier)... Fabini...
i don't see the upgrade. I think they are blowing smoke and ya'll are eatin'
it up.....JMO

I just think you will find any reason to be unhappy.

 

[TheSkaven]

Running the ball from a two tight end set could be very hard on defenses though, having a cutback runner like JJ allows him to find the hole and hopefully, unlike last year, explode right through it. The defense though, could just key on Julius, but that is where the play-action comes in. This offense moves Polite off the roster and a better player in Fasano onto it.

I agree with everything you said, except of course that I think Polite stays on the roster but moves off the field. When JJ says that we're out of the fullback business, I take it to mean 80% of the snaps. You never want to entirely eliminate an option (this team even shows 4-3 at times on defense).

I love the idea of running a two TE formation because it will play to this team's strengths. It also forces opposing teams into mismatches. When a team typically lines up two tight ends, that's a run formation and you bring in an extra linebacker. Now it can be either a run/pass formation.

Finally, if this Fasano kid projects in the pro's as well as he played in college, he's 3 times the weapon that any fullback is in the passing game.

Just think on this for a minute - this offense has playmakers at EVERY position. We all know JuJo can break a long one. Terrell Owens and Terry Glenn are game breakers at wide receiver. Now we have two difference-making tight ends.

Genius!!

 

[InDakWeTrust]

I agree with everything you said, except of course that I think Polite stays on the roster but moves off the field. When JJ says that we're out of the fullback business, I take it to mean 80% of the snaps. You never want to entirely eliminate an option (this team even shows 4-3 at times on defense).

I love the idea of running a two TE formation because it will play to this team's strengths. It also forces opposing teams into mismatches. When a team typically lines up two tight ends, that's a run formation and you bring in an extra linebacker. Now it can be either a run/pass formation.

Finally, if this Fasano kid projects in the pro's as well as he played in college, he's 3 times the weapon that any fullback is in the passing game.

Just think on this for a minute - this offense has playmakers at EVERY position. We all know JuJo can break a long one. Terrell Owens and Terry Glenn are game breakers at wide receiver. Now we have two difference-making tight ends.

Genius!!

The Fasano pick has been growing on me. It allows everyone on the offensive line to get better by him lining up and helping out the OT, and to the fact that we dont have a player at the skill postions on offense where ability to play is a question mark.

We dont need out Oline to be domiinant this year to make the playoffs, hell we were on our way before Flo went down. We need some luck on offense and a defense that can force lots of turnovers(something that looks like it will be done.)

 

[hogwild]

Wow that was just so full of insight. Thanks.

And I had forgotten why I drive through the deep south to get to VA instead of Arkansas.

sometimes you have to dumb it down for idiots.
sounds like it hit home, jerk

 

[Alexander]

At guard we pick two of Rivera, Kosier, Peterman, Noll, and Gurode.

Ben Noll is gone. He is an ex-Cowboy. He is no more.

 

[proline]

Didn't have time to read all of the posts, but I was thinking that with the protection and passing balance a 2 TE offense should have, the system should be QB friendly (more time, better blitz pickup, etc.). This should help with the transition to whoever our next starting QB is, and also with backups coming in should Bledsoe get hurt.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I think Fasano will line up in the back field as an H-back on many of the formations and be the lead blocker. not that it will be a staple of the offense, but the two TE sets as few have pointed allows a lot of one on one blocking situations. so the OL better block their lone man.

the success of it also depends on having good WRs that force the defense to keep both of their safties away from LOS. that's why Indy has had a lot fo success since in their formation the opposing safties have to account for harrison and wayne.

same situation for dallas, they have to account for TO and glenn or else risk getting burned.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

sometimes you have to dumb it down for idiots.
sounds like it hit home, jerk

You dont want to go there. Sorry if i thought your nobody,nobody,nobody analysis was about as worthless as it comes.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ben Noll is gone. He is an ex-Cowboy. He is no more.

Didnt know that, thanks for the heads up.

 

[hogwild]

You dont want to go there. Sorry if i thought your nobody,nobody,nobody analysis was about as worthless as it comes.

I'm not scared to go anywhere.
It's not like your post added anything of value.
If you want to talk football, try learnin' the game first
you want to blindly believe whatever everybody says
cause thats what you want to hear.
somebody doesn't agree with you ,you want to get personal.
Punks don't scare me . never have, never will

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not scared to go anywhere.
It's not like your post added anything of value.
If you want to talk football, try learnin' the game first
you want to blindly believe whatever everybody says
cause thats what you want to hear.
somebody doesn't agree with you ,you want to get personal.
Punks don't scare me . never have, never will

My intention wasnt to scare you. The tough guy routine is pretty boring especially when you write your posts in verse..

My point was that youre response to me posited absolutely nothing. You sit here and try to tell me that I need to learn the game yet youre post is bascally saying player=nothing with absolutley zero to back it up. I mean reread the drivel you wrote:

at guard we have : an injured player, a journeyman noone had heard of
be honest, nobody,nobody,nobody
at center we have : underacheiver (sp), crap
at tackle we have : injured vet, injured vet, 2nd yr shell-shocked hard-nosed
plays hurt Player, and an injured player who was a high
draft pick who has never got on the field.

I want competition from better players. Crap by anyother name is still Crap
I believe we have improved in prolly all other areas, but
not in the OL. I believe we will be calling for BP head about the middle of Oct.
for not fixing the most glaring need of this team.... I could be wrong/i could
be right too.

Sorry but that take was completely weak. Calling players nobodies and crap is not exactly what i would call insight.

 

[hogwild]

My intention wasnt to scare you. The tough guy routine is pretty boring especially when you write your posts in verse..

My point was that youre response to me posited absolutely nothing. You sit here and try to tell me that I need to learn the game yet youre post is bascally saying player=nothing with absolutley zero to back it up. I mean reread the drivel you wrote:



Sorry but that take was completely weak. Calling players nobodies and crap is not exactly what i would call insight.

my point is nobody has shown me a good reason why we should be excited
about this O-Line .
Flozel is back...which one, the pro-bowler or the lazy one
Al put on weight... doesn't mean he's better
Fabini didn't sign for starter money.... says alot to me
Columbo never has hit the field....I really do hope he pans out
petermen ????

tell me why anybody wouldn't have concerns, but yet
pity the fool who question the most glaring weakness on the team.
This new Offense ain't new, it won't solve all our problems.
We ran it some last yr without alot of success
I remember people clamoring for the fullback a few times.
I don't believe everything i read or hear from Jerry for that matter.
BP is a good coach but he has not rebuilt the o-line like he should've
by now. If he had we would be set to win it all this yr.
Still can, but it will take alot more luck IMO

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

my point is nobody has shown me a good reason why we should be excited
about this O-Line .
Flozel is back...which one, the pro-bowler or the lazy one
Al put on weight... doesn't mean he's better
Fabini didn't sign for starter money.... says alot to me
Columbo never has hit the field....I really do hope he pans out
petermen ????

tell me why anybody wouldn't have concerns, but yet
pity the fool who question the most glaring weakness on the team.
This new Offense ain't new, it won't solve all our problems.
We ran it some last yr without alot of success
I remember people clamoring for the fullback a few times.
I don't believe everything i read or hear from Jerry for that matter.
BP is a good coach but he has not rebuilt the o-line like he should've
by now. If he had we would be set to win it all this yr.
Still can, but it will take alot more luck IMO

So if we would have paid more money to Fabini then you would be satisfied?

Youre concerned with the OL which is understandable but Fabini and Adams are the least of our worries when compared to the interior line.

Im just not ready to freak out. We have 5 guys vying for spots on the interior line and four guys competing for the tackle slots. Thats 9 guys plus the rooks and Im confident that we can find 5 to start.

 

[big dog cowboy]

TEs are a dime a dozen unless you are talking about an elite 1st round talent which we aren't here.

Don't get me wrong, I like this kid and think he will be a good player for us, I just think we could have gotten better value with that pick.

That is what you get when you draft your board first and for need second.