Tyler Smith

[CalPolyTechnique]

Okay. I'm not going to keep telling the same thing to a cheerleader of the team.

Have fun letting the team think for you. If you need me I'll be in the real world acknowledging those two reaches like everyone else.

These people think they can create an elite player through the sheer power of positivity. It’s comical.

Similarly, they think you’re somehow wounding the player if you’re being critical.

 

[Pass2Run]

These people think they can create an elite player through the sheer power of positivity. It’s comical.

Similarly, they think you’re somehow wounding the player if you’re being critical.

Not really.

Some of us would just like to know which better options were available, especially in the 1st.

And, then, if you don't like Williams, then who? Give us your ideal guys.. time will give some indication if it was really a reach or not.

Nobody thinks we're wounding any players. That's just too silly. Pathetic, really.

Which specific players should we have gone after? That's the other half of the equation. That's where a discussion can actually happen.

Simply criticizing players as being "reaches" doesn't really mean much. There's been reach after reach after reach in recent Cowboys' drafts, and most make pro bowls in hindsight. Happens every other year here.

Put 'em on the table.. tell us. Which player was a better pick at which position, and why. Until then, you're doing the opposite of what "positivity" people are doing.

 

[Plankton]

Which part of Tyler Smith's game was a reach in the 1st round?

Other than Jermaine Johnson, who was a better pick?

Not a trick question. Not sure I want an egotistical defensive end with my first pick either. Especially when I can basically get a big kid with NFL talent and a good attitude who can be molded into a top talent in the NFL with a little coaching.

I'm not judging if you don't like the pick. If you say Jermaine Johnson, then fine, I'm good with that, and I can see the reasoning there. But I'm just curious because this wasn't the deepest draft for legit 1st round talent. It fell off.. so there was actually more 2nd and 3rd round talent than most years. So when the board was cleaned off, it looked to me that, debatably, JJ aside, they took the best player available....

I thought they could have made a move or figured out a way to land Travis Jones. But other than that, I was happy with the draft overall.

The Cowboys had Lewis Cine rated as a first round pick, and passed on him. Smith was valued as a second round pick on their own board, and they took him. By their own board and rankings, they took a lesser value to force a need. A need that was not addressed prior to the draft because they ignored free agency as an option to do just that.

 

[Rayman70]

Lewis Cine was also a 1 year wonder and had injury issues. I see why they did what they did.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Not really.

Some of us would just like to know which better options were available, especially in the 1st.

And, then, if you don't like Williams, then who? Give us your ideal guys.. time will give some indication if it was really a reach or not.

Nobody thinks we're wounding any players. That's just too silly. Pathetic, really.

Which specific players should we have gone after? That's the other half of the equation. That's where a discussion can actually happen.

Simply criticizing players as being "reaches" doesn't really mean much. There's been reach after reach after reach in recent Cowboys' drafts, and most make pro bowls in hindsight. Happens every other year here.

Put 'em on the table.. tell us. Which player was a better pick at which position, and why. Until then, you're doing the opposite of what "positivity" people are doing.

I’m not gonna respond to the strawman you created. If you want discussion then quote me in context.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The Cowboys had Lewis Cine rated as a first round pick, and passed on him. Smith was valued as a second round pick on their own board, and they took him. By their own board and rankings, they took a lesser value to force a need. A need that was not addressed prior to the draft because they ignored free agency as an option to do just that.

100% and it goes back to my thread ahead of the draft that talked about them telegraphing their pick due to their approach to free agency.

I don’t even mind the pick but folks are getting hurt feelings because Smith is a project.

 

[Plankton]

Lewis Cine was also a 1 year wonder and had injury issues. I see why they did what they did.

Cine didn't miss a game in his Georgia career - what injury issues did he have?

 

[Plankton]

100% and it goes back to my thread ahead of the draft that talked about them telegraphing their pick due to their approach to free agency.

I don’t even mind the pick but folks are getting hurt feelings because Smith is a project.

I don't get how people can't objectively look at a situation without getting hurt by it. Smith is a great kid by all accounts, and has a lot of potential. That being said, his hand placement is god awful, and he's a holding penalty waiting to happen unless he get this cleaned up.

 

[gimmesix]

I don't see why we can't acknowledge that he was rated by draft evaluators (different from scouting departments) lower than where he was taken, while at the same time acknowledging his potential and that he may turn out much better than where anyone rated him.

There always seems to be a need by some to try to downplay any negatives or positives when you've got both for pretty much any prospect. I look forward to seeing what he can become; maybe the issues that caused him to be rated lower by draft gurus will prove to be nothing or maybe they will cause him to struggle and end up not being worth the pick.

It's not like we haven't seen this before in the Cowboys' recent draft history, with Frederick being taken much higher than evaluators had him (fans taking sides about it) and proving to be well worth the pick. So maybe we can wait before crowning the pick as either good or bad. Of course, I know that's not what we do here.

 

[stilltheguru]

These people think they can create an elite player through the sheer power of positivity. It’s comical.

Similarly, they think you’re somehow wounding the player if you’re being critical.

You his bodyguard or something? Relax Cap'n save em

 

[Pass2Run]

Cine didn't miss a game in his Georgia career - what injury issues did he have?

Cine is a game changer.

 

[Rayman70]

Cine didn't miss a game in his Georgia career - what injury issues did he have?

My Bad. I had him mixed ^ with another safety. Carry on.

 

[Pass2Run]

The Cowboys had Lewis Cine rated as a first round pick, and passed on him. Smith was valued as a second round pick on their own board, and they took him. By their own board and rankings, they took a lesser value to force a need. A need that was not addressed prior to the draft because they ignored free agency as an option to do just that.

OK, I can see that logic.

Honestly, I wasn't aware Cine was on the board when we picked.

IMO, Cine is a game changing type player, for sure.

So, it looks like they went for position of need.

Cowboys have always chosen to go a little light at safety rather than just going BPA for decades.

So they obviously see LG as a more pressing need to fill with quality prospects.

No doubt Cine is a good safety, though, so I can see that argument. However, I can see why they used their value chart over BPA board.

I want to say, though. The reason Smith isn't a 1st round pick is because of things that can be corrected. If his technique was a lot better, he'd have been a first rounder, based on his athleticism.

So, it's a calculated risk..

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I don't get how people can't objectively look at a situation without getting hurt by it. Smith is a great kid by all accounts, and has a lot of potential. That being said, his hand placement is god awful, and he's a holding penalty waiting to happen unless he get this cleaned up.

Exactly. That’s how I jumped into this thread. I watched all the offensive snaps of Tulsa vs. Ohio State and he was a bit of a mess. That doesn’t mean he can’t be coached up but it will take time. There are those that will glibly say “well, you can say that about every prospect,” but it’s a matter of degree that they don’t want to acknowledge. He’s not going to be your plug n’ play guy at OG.

 

[Pass2Run]

Exactly. That’s how I jumped into this thread. I watched all the offensive snaps of Tulsa vs. Ohio State and he was a bit of a mess. That doesn’t mean he can’t be coached up but it will take time. There are those that will glibly say “well, you can say that about every prospect,” but it’s a matter of degree that they don’t want to acknowledge. He’s not going to be your plug n’ play guy at OG.

It's easier to see him as a guard. His problems are when he's in space. His penalties happen when he's in space. He's going to struggle a little to get that fixed, at first, but it's feasible to he can get there in a season or so, at guard.

He's more powerful, and he's too short to be an NFL tackle anyway.

So, at guard is where he'll play unless we get in a pinch at tackle.

I think position flex on the o-line is the new trend in the NFL.

They see it as a plus, because you can bring more guys to the game. It's a valid point to consider as far as grading how they used their value chart, first grade versus a single player.

 

[Pass2Run]

I’m not gonna respond to the strawman you created. If you want discussion then quote me in context.

No, you're taking me out of context, Hippocrates.

I'm simply saying, if you are going to criticize the move, be sure to include who was a better pick and why.

That's all I'm saying.

Otherwise, it just reads like someone nagging to nag.

I mean, I'm all down for debate. I'd just rather be civilized about it rather than rhetorical. You know, and stuff, rather than insinuate the other person is stupid and I'm-so-smart gimmick, simply make points and arguments.

It's a lot more interesting than passive aggressive, sarcastic, quasi-arguments.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

No, you're taking me out of context, Hippocrates.

I'm simply saying, if you are going to criticize the move, be sure to include who was a better pick and why.

That's all I'm saying.

Otherwise, it just reads like someone nagging to nag.

I mean, I'm all down for debate. I'd just rather be civilized about it rather than rhetorical. You know, and stuff, rather than insinuate the other person is stupid and I'm-so-smart gimmick, simply make points and arguments.

It's a lot more interesting than passive aggressive, sarcastic, quasi-arguments.

No, you took me out of context.

I said I watched all his snaps against Ohio State. You and others got your feelings hurt and now you’re saying “if you are going to criticize the move, be sure to include who was a better pick and why.”

An appropriate question to ask in response to what I actually wrote would be “well, what did you see exactly?” Not, “oh yeah….well….who would you have taken them!?!?!”

 

[Pass2Run]

No, you took me out of context.

I said I watched all his snaps against Ohio State. You and others got your feelings hurt and now you’re saying “if you are going to criticize the move, be sure to include who was a better pick and why.”

An appropriate question to ask in response to what I actually wrote would be “well, what did you see exactly?” Not, “oh yeah….well….who would you have taken them!?!?!”

Sorry, I was just watching the Bulldogs and noticing how Dean and Cine both have the benefit of playing from the Georgia line.

That's what I am saying, though. Because we have to be realistic. We either trade up to get a top guy, or we stay put and risk the chance of not having the most value at any pick.

I kind of feel like we had more needs than to take a WR in the 3rd.

And I don't want a Jermaine Johnson kind of guy in Dallas. Dude is a headache waiting to happen.

Let's mentor the ones we have, and just stop it with that crap.

Those of us who like Tyler Smith see the apparent weaknesses in his game.. It's obvious he has squirrely technique. Some of us have looked past his highlight reels as well. Since he's our player now. It's just we don't feel the need to point them out because he's a young dude. Could be like a Jr. Sr. this year. Instead, he's in the NFL. I'm not trying to convince you his technique is great, and hopefully you're not trying to convince me he isn't athletic. I'm assuming a certain amount of knowledge here, so pardon me.

So I see why we'd be upset, if we picked earlier. But the board took a big drop in NFL-ready players, the kind we needed.

They never have valued safety... I don't think that's wise. But they've been doing that for decades, so I'm probably just not as offended by that as some are.

I really would have liked Smith, Williams, Travis Jones.. Or something like that. .just seems more like what we need. We're good enough in the passing game and didn't really need to draft Tolbert, since we were filling needs.

Or some argue that we did, and I can see that. But we did also land some nice FA talent to the roster for camp..

Would you rather have Travis Jones in the 2nd rather than Sam Williams? I guess that's what I"m asking, because I already see the weaknesses in Smith's game.

I can see him as an imperfect player, and still get on board with the pick. I guess I'm just more interested in who are better players and for what reasons, because I'm more entertained by challenging my own assumptions and status quo consensus than I am in just rolling with them.

 

[baltcowboy]

You can have an opinion, but unless youre a top coach how can you tell from tape (as a LT) what's translate translate to LG in the NFL?
There's enough professionals saying that his physique, footwork, aggression and the more forward placing hand position (rather than defending Edges looking to bend) make him ideal as a Guard.

Good points. Tyler could play guard like Parsons played pass rusher. There are still YouTubers who say Parsons was not a better pure linebacker then JOK and the Kansas City kid. I said it before the Cowboys brought Tyler here to open up the run game. His job is to lead Zeke through the holes. Tyler is almost 30lbs bigger the Conner Williams.

 

[Acceptablename]

Once again you don't seem sharp enough to understand the difference between a mock draft and a value board. I would have mocked Travon Walker to the Jaguars at 1. I didn't even think he was a top 10 player.

You know where Jeremiah had that reach Tyler Smith on his value board? 42nd. Do you know where he had Sam Williams? 80th.

Do you get it yet?

It's not really about you being wrong. You don't have an opinion. You're simply a cheerleader who would say this about whoever they drafted. But no matter how much you wave the pompoms you can't change that absolute fact that both Tyler Smith and Sam Williams were consensus reaches. Hence the low grades you see for the Cowboys draft.

Your backing guys that dont get out in the field over road warriors ?