Underclassmen QB leaving early

[RCowboyFan]

Didn't Big Ben leave after his redshirt junior season?

Yes I believe Ben is a Junior. I don't know if it is Red Shirt or not.

 

[RCowboyFan]

I love that article. It coincides with a sermon I've been preaching here all season long about the value of the Senior year for QBs.

I think Brady Quinn made the right choice and Young the wrong choice. I understand he felt his value might never be higher, but value doesn't help your career go anywhere, experience and maturity does.

Maybe, but if Ben Rothlisberger wins SB, then that theory of Jr QBs gets shot. Since I think Ben came out after his Jr year.

I agree though, I rather have QBs or other players who complete their degree than come out early. Personally I always believe in having something to fall back on.

 

[speedkilz88]

Bernie Kosar also left early, he was actually the first to do so.

 

[TheHustler]

Didn't Big Ben leave after his redshirt junior season?

Thought it was after his senior season, I think you're right though.

 

[Hostile]

As I said, I don't really disagree with you completely, and am rather on the fence about this issue.

However for the sake of arguement, let me play Devil's Advocate:

I'm glad you are, because the debates with you the last week or so have been thoroughly enjoyable.

Again, if I'm holding a winning lottery ticket in my hand I don't play any games either - I just go cash the ticket right quick.

College girls are a winning lottery ticket too. I've never understood the desire to leave that behind.

I never understood this argument. Once you get drafted there is nothing in the world that stops you from completing your degree somewhere down the line after your football career is over. Players do it all the time.

In truth you are right, but lots of kids get famous and rich and leave the degree un-accomplished.

Opportunity knocks - there is no shame in opening the door, nor should there be criticism for not 'finishing' something which can always be completed later.

I agree, but will he?

Granted, if you're in your mid-30's at that time you might have more trouble picking up freshmen chicks, but that's a minor obstacle....

Trust me, athletes can pick up girls of any age no matter their age. If Wilt Chamberlain were alive today the pinball machine would still be adding.

I won't in any way argue with you that a QB who stays for his senior year has a better chance for success in the Pros. But its still only a chance, and 4 year QBs bust all the time too.

I'm not saying that 4th guarantees you success.

I will say this, in my experience guys who don't succeed didn't really want it bad enough in the first place. I think the pamturity of that last year can help you want it, but nothing can force you to want it.

I would fully appreciate a guy to whom guaranteed financial security for him and his family comes before a possible chance at hopefully someday Superbowl rings. And a top 5 rated junior has a once in a lifetime chance to secure that, even if he lessens his chances down the road. It simply not worth risking injury or a poor senior year which drops him significantly in the draft to waste that in a dream of Superbowls which are not guaranteed either no matter how many years he stays in college.

See, if it was my son, no matter how poor I was I'd want him to earn the degree first. That would mean more to me than a Super Bowl ring.

Now I know you're old-school Hos and like guys who love the game. but I don't have a problem with guys who seen an opportunity to do what's best for themselves and their family - many of whom have made incredible sacrifices just to get their son, nephew, etc to that point. It would be a horrific shame to waste those sacrifices to a busted knee.

I might have a different perspective on this since a busted knee took my shot.

I wanted to play Pro ball more than anything in the world. When I got hurt it wasn't the end of the world but it sure felt like it. I was still able to do some scouting, recruiting, and coaching. It still keeps you part of the game and you can still love it. Is it the same as playing? No. But if you love it enough, and I didn't, you can still make money. Get a degree in communications and be eloquent or forthcoming enough and you can get a broadcasting job and make money.

Injuries don't stop the wealth, mindset does.

If I had a son or nephew who was good enough I'd advise them to stick for that last year if they were a QB.

As I started this post with, I fully see your point that the final year could be invaluable down the road to a QB - but any other position player is crazy not to take it, and I guess each QB has to take stock of his own priorities and family situation.

Yeah they do and you'll never hear me bash Vince Young if he flops. If it happens I will say that it contributed, but I'd never bash him.

 

[speedkilz88]

In the pros, don't they usually have them waiting in line at the hotel?

 

[Sasquatch]

Personally, I think a guy who comes out early "only because of the instant money," probably will never live up to the hype even if he manages to have a good career...all he ever really cared about was the money...it was #1. Yes, it's a business, but if all your decisions from age 21 are based only on the money, I have doubts about you.

A sensible response but this is a bit harsh and idealistic. This is life afterall, so why should we begrudge people who come from relatively modest backgrounds wanting to provide financial security for themselves and their families?

 

[Doomsday101]

A sensible response but this is a bit harsh and idealistic. This is life afterall, so why should we begrudge people who come from relatively modest backgrounds wanting to provide financial security for themselves and their families?

I don't think anyone is blaming them just saying in the end it may not have been the best thing to do. Those who are saying it was the right thing to do are saying so because of the money just as some have said Leinart made a bad choice because now he may not get as much money or go as the overall #1.

 

[Hostile]

In the pros, don't they usually have them waiting in line at the hotel?

College too. There's just more of them.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Roth was a Jr. A name absent from that list is Aikman. He was drafted in 89 and he too was a Jr. I thought Dan Marino was a Jr. as well but perhaps I am mistaken.

Regardless, I think that every situation is different. Evey one is a case by case kinda thing. Can anybody here truely say that the coaching staff at Texas is going to help Young improve on the things he might need to improve on in order to make him a better Pro QB?

That's the kicker for me. That and the fact that he's a top three pick in my view. Of the top three, all are good situations. No guarantee that this will be the case if he comes out next year IMO. Success in the NFL is not nearly as much a situation of maturity as it is the right situation coming into the NFL, IMO. Carson Palmer had an ideal situation in Cincy. Alex Smith not so much in SF. You have to look at that and ask yourself, what's the best situation for me, as a young player, to be in?

 

[joseephuss]

I'm glad you are, because the debates with you the last week or so have been thoroughly enjoyable.

College girls are a winning lottery ticket too. I've never understood the desire to leave that behind.



In truth you are right, but lots of kids get famous and rich and leave the degree un-accomplished.

I agree, but will he?

Trust me, athletes can pick up girls of any age no matter their age. If Wilt Chamberlain were alive today the pinball machine would still be adding.

I'm not saying that 4th guarantees you success.

I will say this, in my experience guys who don't succeed didn't really want it bad enough in the first place. I think the pamturity of that last year can help you want it, but nothing can force you to want it.

See, if it was my son, no matter how poor I was I'd want him to earn the degree first. That would mean more to me than a Super Bowl ring.

I might have a different perspective on this since a busted knee took my shot.

I wanted to play Pro ball more than anything in the world. When I got hurt it wasn't the end of the world but it sure felt like it. I was still able to do some scouting, recruiting, and coaching. It still keeps you part of the game and you can still love it. Is it the same as playing? No. But if you love it enough, and I didn't, you can still make money. Get a degree in communications and be eloquent or forthcoming enough and you can get a broadcasting job and make money.

Injuries don't stop the wealth, mindset does.

If I had a son or nephew who was good enough I'd advise them to stick for that last year if they were a QB.

Yeah they do and you'll never hear me bash Vince Young if he flops. If it happens I will say that it contributed, but I'd never bash him.

It is a case by case thing. Vince Young could use another year in college to better prepare himself. If the team that drafts him is patient, he will gain that same experience and maturity at the NFL level. Who knows what will happen. If I am in that position, I leave school. You can't predict the future, so when the opportunity for a big contract comes up, I would take it. That's just me.

Peyton Manning probably didn't need to come back for his senior season. It certainly helped him, but he could have made do without it. He also had the benefit of having a NFL QB as a father. That can give him some experience and maturity that other college QBs don't have.

I don't know if going back for his senior season helps Ryan Leaf at all. Maybe it just helps him flop before getting to the NFL. He had no pressure his junior year at WSU. If he went back, he would have been the front runner for the Heisman. We all saw how he responded to pressure?

 

[Doomsday101]

Roth was a Jr. A name absent from that list is Aikman. He was drafted in 89 and he too was a Jr. I thought Dan Marino was a Jr. as well but perhaps I am mistaken.

Regardless, I think that every situation is different. Evey one is a case by case kinda thing. Can anybody here truely say that the coaching staff at Texas is going to help Young improve on the things he might need to improve on in order to make him a better Pro QB?

That's the kicker for me. That and the fact that he's a top three pick in my view. Of the top three, all are good situations. No guarantee that this will be the case if he comes out next year IMO. Success in the NFL is not nearly as much a situation of maturity as it is the right situation coming into the NFL, IMO. Carson Palmer had an ideal situation in Cincy. Alex Smith not so much in SF. You have to look at that and ask yourself, what's the best situation for me, as a young player, to be in?

Troy was not a Jr.

 

[joseephuss]

Troy was not a Jr.

Wasn't Troy in college for 5 years? Freshman at OU, sat out a year when he transferred and then a 3 year starter at UCLA.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Troy was not a Jr.

I believe he was. Troy was injured early on at OU. I believe he got a medical redshirt and left UCLA with another year of elligability left.

 

[Hostile]

Troy was not a Jr.

Neither was Marino.

 

[Hostile]

I believe he was. Troy was injured early on at OU. I believe he got a medical redshirt and left UCLA with another year of elligability left.

He was a Sr. ABQ. I'm 100% positive of this.

 

[Doomsday101]

Wasn't Troy in college for 5 years? Freshman at OU, sat out a year when he transferred and then a 3 year starter at UCLA.

Troy was at OU after breaking his leg, Switzer made a call to Donahue at UCLA and Troy was allowed to transfer and did have to sit out a year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He was a Sr. ABQ. I'm 100% positive of this.

Link Hos.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Neither was Marino.

This one, I will not argue. As I said earlier, I thought he did come out early but I could easily be wrong.

 

[joseephuss]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Aikman#Early_life_and_college_career

Early life and college career

The youngest of three children, Aikman lived in Cerritos, California until age 12, when his family moved to a farm in Henryetta, Oklahoma. In Things Change, an account of his life for kids, Aikman recounted he thought his athletic career was over, but, to his surprise, it was just beginning. He made All-State in both football and baseball, and his high school retired his football jersey.

Although drafted by Major League Baseball's New York Mets, Aikman chose to pursue football and attended the University of Oklahoma. He broke his leg in his debut against the University of Miami, then headed by his future coach, Jimmy Johnson. With Aikman on the sidelines, Sooners' head coach Barry Switzer went back to the wishbone offense, and the college team went on to win the 1985 NCAA title.

Having won with the wishbone, and as Aikman was primarily a passing quarterback, Coach Switzer oversaw Aikman's transfer to UCLA, a program under Terry Donahue that was more conducive to Aikman's game. He had to redshirt one year due to college transfer rules, but went on to lead the Bruins to a 20-4 record over two seasons, and wins in the 1987 Aloha Bowl and the 1989 Cotton Bowl.