Underrated part of the game

[HungryLion]

Because dummy that's what happened. Are you this dumb. They did not execute the gameplan

Right. But at the same time. It’s the coaches job to put together a gameplan that the players can execute and will work.

It’s also the coaches job to adjust the gameplan as the game goes on, based on what is/isn’t working.

For instance. The offensive line was not blocking the run well at all. At all. That’s on the players.

Perhaps the coaches should have recognized it sooner and not ran the ball on 1st down more than they passed the ball on 1st down. Considering the running game was trash. That is on coaching.

Cowboys ran for less than 2 yards per carry on first down. They passed for 7 yards per pass on first down. Yet the cowboys ran the ball on first down more than they passed it on first down.

 

[Dre11]

No dummy, the players made mistakes, the coaches also made mistakes.

This isn't rocket science. The only conclusion at this point is that if you really have a coaching background, then you are likely one of those uber sensitive types that can't handle criticism and is a blame shifter who wants to make sure people know it wasn't your fault something didn't work.

You have got to be dumbest couch jock here....lok

 

[Sydla]

You have got to be dumbest couch jock here....lok

You have to be the dumbest coach ever in the history of sports if you actually believe coaching has zero impact on the results of a game or that a coach can't make a bad decision or call a bad play during a game.

 

[Dre11]

Right. But at the same time. It’s the coaches job to put together a gameplan that the players can execute and will work.

It’s also the coaches job to adjust the gameplan as the game goes on, based on what is/isn’t working.

For instance. The offensive line was not blocking the run well at all. At all. That’s on the players.

Perhaps the coaches should have recognized it sooner and not ran the ball on 1st down more than they passed the ball on 1st down. Considering the running game was trash. That is on coaching.

Cowboys ran for less than 2 yards per carry on first down. They passed for 7 yards per pass on first down. Yet the cowboys ran the ball on first down more than they passed it on first down.

As Dak said they left play a out on the field, that's whether he missed some reads, didn't take some shots. They fumbled, they dropped passes, they also had crucial penalties. They have to execute those plays to win and they didn't

 

[HungryLion]

As Dak said they left play a out on the field, that's whether he missed some reads, didn't take some shots. They fumbled, they dropped passes, they also had crucial penalties. They have to execute those plays to win and they didn't

Dak is the QB. He isn’t going to call out a coaches mistakes to the media. Come on man.

It also doesn’t mean execution wasn’t a problem.

Have you stopped to think that blame can lie both on player execution and coaching? It doesn’t have to all one or the other?

 

[Dre11]

You have to be the dumbest coach ever in the history of sports if you actually believe coaching has zero impact on the results of a game.

I didn't say a coach has zero impact, that's your ******* words, I said the players must execute the gameplan for it to work, that no matter what the gameplan is, if the players don't execute it doesn't work. Period.

 

[Sydla]

Dak is the QB. He isn’t going to call out a coaches mistakes to the media. Come on man.

Not Moore's fault. Players' fault. Always they players's fault.

Moore made zero mistakes. Zero questionable decisions. Every play call was flawless and ideal for the situation. Stupid players screwed up his genius.

 

[Dre11]

Dak is the QB. He isn’t going to call out a coaches mistakes to the media. Come on man.

Dak is telling you he and the players didn't execute, because they didn't. You saw with your own eyes, turnovers, and drive killers all night . The oline got worked all night in the passing game and running game

 

[HungryLion]

Dak is telling you he and the players didn't execute, because they didn't. You saw with your own eyes, turnovers, and drive killers all night .

I know that.

So then honest question.

Was running the ball on first down, so many times, despite the consistent struggles to gain adequate yards with the run. A good or bad coaching decision? Simple yes or no.

 

[Sydla]

I didn't say a coach has zero impact, that's your ******* words, I said the players must execute the gameplan for it to work, that no matter what the gameplan is, if the players don't execute it doesn't work. Period.

When you say that there is basically no such thing as a bad play call, you are pretty much saying they have zero impact on game day.

Let's stipulate that if a coach has a great game plan and the players go stupid and don't perform, sure, the game plan won't work. Or if a coach calls a great play for a specific defensive alignment and the wide open WR drops the ball, that's on the WR. Frankly, there is no need to stipulate it because no one in this thread ever argued anything close to this, but whatever.

But is it impossible for a coaching staff to have a bad game plan? Or call a bad game? Or make mistakes during the game? Because you seem to be arguing otherwise. That all game plans are great, all play calls are great and will work. And if they don't, that's on the players? That it is impossible that the coach on the other side may have just done a better job than you on a play or during a game?

 

[Dre11]

I know that.

So then honest question.

Was running the ball on first down, so many times, despite the consistent struggles to gain adequate yards with the run. A good or bad coaching decision?

They didn't gain them passing either, they did what they did the last two games so no it wasn't bad idea. We're suppose to have the best oline in the business.

 

[Sydla]

I know that.

So then honest question.

Was running the ball on first down, so many times, despite the consistent struggles to gain adequate yards with the run. A good or bad coaching decision? Simple yes or no.

What he will argue is that the play calls were great, the runs failed because the players failed.

Simple as that. His view is and will always apparently be that all game plans and all play calls are ideal and basically fungible. If they don't work, it is always the fault of the players not a flawed game plan or a bad play call or set of play calls.

 

[HungryLion]

They didn't gain them passing either, they did what they did the last two games so no it wasn't bad idea. We're suppose to have the best oline in the business.

No. It was obvious throughout the game that the runs on first down weren’t working. The passes on first down were far more successful. Yet they didn’t adjust and call more passes on first downs.

It was also clear well into the game that our best o line in football wasn’t performing well in the running game. That’s where adjustments are supposed to come in.

 

[Dre11]

When you say that there is basically no such thing as a bad play call, you are pretty much saying they have zero impact on game day.

Let's stipulate that if a coach has a great game plan and the players go stupid and don't perform, sure, the game plan won't work. Or if a coach calls a great play for a specific defensive alignment and the wide open WR drops the ball, that's on the WR. Frankly, there is no need to stipulate it because no one in this thread ever argued anything close to this, but whatever.

But is it impossible for a coaching staff to have a bad game plan? Or call a bad game? Or make mistakes during the game? Because you seem to be arguing otherwise. That all game plans are great, all play calls are great and will work. And if they don't, that's on the players?

In no way can a coach called a play and it magically happens without the players doing the things necessary to make it work. In no way. On paper every play is designed to work.

 

[HungryLion]

What he will argue is that the play calls were great, the runs failed because the players failed.

Simple as that. His view is and will always apparently be that all game plans and all play calls are ideal and basically fungible. If they don't work, it is always the fault of the players not a flawed game plan or a bad play call or set of play calls.

You pretty much nailed it.

 

[Dre11]

No. It was obvious throughout the game that the runs on first down weren’t working. The passes on first down were far more successful. Yet they didn’t adjust and call more passes on first downs.

It was also clear well into the game that our best o line in football wasn’t performing well in the running game. That’s where adjustments are supposed to come in.

They weren't successful with the pass or run, the oline was whipped in all phases.

 

[HungryLion]

They weren't successful with the pass or run, the oline was whipped in all phases.

7 yards per play when passing on first down.

2 yards per rush when running on first down.

The pass was far more successful than the run on first down.

 

[Sydla]

In no way can a coach called a play and it magically happens without the players doing the things necessary to make it work. In no way. On paper every play is designed to work.

You didn't answer the question and actually answered something no one has even argued.

So I will ask again. Can a coach have a bad game plan? Can a coordinator make a bad play call or set of play calls or just have a bad game overall from a play calling perspective? Can an opposing coordinator do a better job of play calling where he's found ways to exploit what you are doing?

Or is this all impossible? That every play call is essentially perfect.

 

[8FOR!3]

Actually this is an overreaction on my behalf but it drove me insane when we gave up 6-7 yards on a screen on 1st and 20. They ate our lunch with screens all day, we should have seen that one coming, if I can call it before it happens then they've got to do better lol. But this is nitpicking Marinelli's defense who imo did their job well today.

 

[Sydla]

7 yards per play when passing on first down.

2 yards per rush when running on first down.

The pass was far more successful than the run on first down.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Dre also isn't really a fan of metrics and stats. He's more of a gut feeling, my eye told me this kind of guy.

There is zero question the Cowboys were more successful on first down passing tonight. Now I don't think we needed to go Air Coryall here and start whipping it around the field on every first down, but it was clear the Saints were focusing on stopping Elliott and we had no real adjustment............. we kept running into that wall.