Video: Undisputed: Lombardi's advice to Jerry: It's time to be aggressive

YosemiteSam

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Translation: I have no clue, im probably an LSU fan who still is upset Dak turned me down.

TCU fan, I hate everything Louisiana (lived just outside of New Orleans for a year and a half) with the exception of Cajun food.

I build high availability IT / Internet infrastructure for a living. I know something about not failing when it counts. Trading away your redundancy is for morons.

Checkmate on both of you.
 

Gabe

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TCU fan, I hate everything Louisiana (lived just outside of New Orleans for a year and a half) with the exception of Cajun food.

I build high availability IT / Internet infrastructure for a living. I know something about not failing when it counts. Trading away your redundancy is for morons.

Checkmate on both of you.
Making idiotic statements you cannot even explain... Very nice!
 

Scotman

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I just don't think I trade him this year. Even if he rides the bench, which I'm not 100% convinced about either, no one panics in the event that Dak goes down. Having Romo come off the bench in that situation wouldn't be a let down at all. He's a fair sight better than just a security blanket. So, I'd keep him this year. Additionally, it gives me three times the game film to assess whether or not all signs are still pointing up with Dak. ALL of that said, I completely understand the argument about trading him. But, the potential gains in doing so are heavily outweighed (for me) by the potential losses.
 

KingintheNorth

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You may be right but I don't think so. IF you trade/release Romo then all the spread out bonus money is accelerated into the next two years. When they restructured his contract in the 2015 offseason, he didn't take a paycut and he did receive all but one million of base salary as a guaranteed 16M bonus. That was 5M as a signing bonus, 1.635 M as an option bonus and 5.7M as a restructured bonus. All of that and more was spread out thru 2019 as:

2017 5M signing bonus and 5.7M as a restructured bonus
2018 5.7M restructured bonus
2019 3.2M restructured bonus

Those all get accelerated into the next two years of his imagined release. That's 19.6M in bonus or at the least 9.8M for those two years. To my knowledge there is no way to put that money into the other camp unless it is in the form of draft picks and/or players with small contracts whom can still play for another 2-3 years you can also acquire. Perhaps there are other ways beyond my imagination.

Where are you getting your data?

restructuring bonuses work like signing bonus. Money up front. The bonus is divided among remaining years (sometimes less) on the deal and added to the already divided signing bonus (and and previous restructure bonuses). The money is guaranteed because the player already has it. the additional prorated bonus is not guaranteed. It already happened. It is a fictional number that only applies to the salary cap.

Every time he restructures, he takes a smaller base salary in return for a restructure bonus. He does it for immediate money and the team does it for cap room. The consequences is the team is enlarging the future cap hit because that bonus gets spread out (cap hit purposes only) over the remaining part of his deal.

From overthecap.com...

On March 4, 2014 Romo converted $12.5 million of his 2014 base salary into a signing bonus.

So his 2014 base salary became $1 million and that $12.5 million was added to the prorated bonus column.


According to the Dallas Morning News, Romo restructured his contract on April 1, 2015 and converted $16 million of his salary to a signing bonus. The move created $12.8 million in cap space.

So again, his 2015 base salary went down to $1 million and the team once again pushed money down the road (cap hit purposes).

He currently has an $8,500,000 base salary, with a $12,335,000 prorated bonus hit which makes his total cap hit $20,835,000.

Next year he has a $14,000,000 base salary, a $10,7000,000 prorated bonus hit, totaling a $ 24,700,000 2017 cap hit.

His remaining base salaries (2017 - $14M, 2018 - $19.5M, and 2020 $20.5M) are not guaranteed. After this year, the team is responsible for the remaining $19.6 M of prorated bonus money. Again, this is only in regards of salary cap hit. Tony already received this money through signing bonuses, roster bonuses, and restructuring bonuses.

If he is cut or traded next off-season, that $19.6M prorated bonus immediately accelerates onto the 2017 cap. But the team is no longer on the hook for his 2017 base salary of $14,000,000, which again, is not guaranteed.

So Romo would have cost:

$14,000,000 2017 base salary plus $10,700,000 2017 prorated bonus equals $24,700,000 2017 total cap hit.

Cutting or trading him creates that $19,600,000 accelerated prorated bonus hit.

$24,700,000 - $19,600,000 = $5,100,000 of additional cap space than the Cowboys had with Romo on the roster.

This also gets Romo completely off the books before the 2018 season.

Another way to look at it is Romo on the 2017 salary cap is $24.7M, Romo off the cap is $19M.6M in dead money.

They can delay that dead money some by making him a June 1st cut (doesn't apply if traded).

You mentioned that it gets spread into "two years". That is only true in the June 1st release situation.
 

jobberone

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restructuring bonuses work like signing bonus. Money up front. The bonus is divided among remaining years (sometimes less) on the deal and added to the already divided signing bonus (and and previous restructure bonuses). The money is guaranteed because the player already has it. the additional prorated bonus is not guaranteed. It already happened. It is a fictional number that only applies to the salary cap.

Every time he restructures, he takes a smaller base salary in return for a restructure bonus. He does it for immediate money and the team does it for cap room. The consequences is the team is enlarging the future cap hit because that bonus gets spread out (cap hit purposes only) over the remaining part of his deal.

From overthecap.com...

On March 4, 2014 Romo converted $12.5 million of his 2014 base salary into a signing bonus.

So his 2014 base salary became $1 million and that $12.5 million was added to the prorated bonus column.


According to the Dallas Morning News, Romo restructured his contract on April 1, 2015 and converted $16 million of his salary to a signing bonus. The move created $12.8 million in cap space.

So again, his 2015 base salary went down to $1 million and the team once again pushed money down the road (cap hit purposes).

He currently has an $8,500,000 base salary, with a $12,335,000 prorated bonus hit which makes his total cap hit $20,835,000.

Next year he has a $14,000,000 base salary, a $10,7000,000 prorated bonus hit, totaling a $ 24,700,000 2017 cap hit.

His remaining base salaries (2017 - $14M, 2018 - $19.5M, and 2020 $20.5M) are not guaranteed. After this year, the team is responsible for the remaining $19.6 M of prorated bonus money. Again, this is only in regards of salary cap hit. Tony already received this money through signing bonuses, roster bonuses, and restructuring bonuses.

If he is cut or traded next off-season, that $19.6M prorated bonus immediately accelerates onto the 2017 cap. But the team is no longer on the hook for his 2017 base salary of $14,000,000, which again, is not guaranteed.

So Romo would have cost:

$14,000,000 2017 base salary plus $10,700,000 2017 prorated bonus equals $24,700,000 2017 total cap hit.

Cutting or trading him creates that $19,600,000 accelerated prorated bonus hit.

$24,700,000 - $19,600,000 = $5,100,000 of additional cap space than the Cowboys had with Romo on the roster.

This also gets Romo completely off the books before the 2018 season.

Another way to look at it is Romo on the 2017 salary cap is $24.7M, Romo off the cap is $19M.6M in dead money.

They can delay that dead money some by making him a June 1st cut (doesn't apply if traded).

You mentioned that it gets spread into "two years". That is only true in the June 1st release situation.

The figures I gave are correct. It's simple. There is 14.6M in guarantees/bonus which have to be accounted for. There is another 5M in 2017 as a signing bonus I'm not certain is owed now or not if he is traded.

You cannot save that money. It must be accounted for. How it is counted can be adjusted some by kicking the can down the road if he's not traded but they can't escape paying him guaranteed money trade/no trade and I don't know of a way to get another team to pay for it.

Generally accelerated money can be spread out over two years.

Where is @AdamJT13?
 

KingintheNorth

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Generally accelerated money can be spread out over two years.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm always curious to learn more about the cap and how salaries work. I once asked Adam a salary cap question here and he decided to respond by saying how amazing he is. I acknowledge that he is a guru at this sort of thing and read his posts in hopes to learn more.

The only scenario that I know of where the accelerated money can be spread out over two years is the June 1st cut scenario.

from https://in2theleague.wordpress.com/2013/05/29/nfl-cba-series-dead-money-and-acceleration/

Trading or cutting a player accelerates the remaining prorated bonus immediately.

Now to acceleration. All prorated signing bonuses or other amounts treated as signing bonuses are subject to acceleration. When a player is released from the team, his remaining prorated cap figures accelerate into the team’s cap for the League Year of his release.


The rules for such acceleration differ depending on when the player is taken off of the roster, but for our purposes, we will assume a pre-June-1 release or trade. If interested in releases after June 1, go to In2The League’s section on June 1 Release and Designation.


If a team releases the player, they are relieved of any remaining P5 salaries the player has in his contract, but the signing bonus accelerates.
 
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KingintheNorth

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There is another 5M in 2017 as a signing bonus I'm not certain is owed now or not if he is traded.

It would hit the cap immediately if he was traded or cut. It's prorated, he already received that money.


There is 14.6M in guarantees/bonus
There is another 5M

14.6M plus 5M equals what I mentioned in my post.
Cutting or trading him creates that $19,600,000 accelerated prorated bonus hit.
 

Trouty

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Making idiotic statements you cannot even explain... Very nice!

Pot, meet kettle.

You, Gabe, are never allowed to question others and their "idiotic statements" when every other utterance from you is from a Patrick Star(fish) dialogue.

You troll.
 

Trouty

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So if you have a disagreement, you ignore them? I like the name calling too. Mature. :clap:

To be fair, SD, @Gabe is a bonafide troll of the highest order. You certainly aren't, you're a true blue fan (for whatever that's worth, coming from me), but Gabe shouldn't be your battle buddy in any debate.

Respectfully, SD. My brudda.
 

Trouty

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@Gabe, you wanna slander our franchise and team, then call our members out. Come call me out. I want to play.
 

Trouty

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give it a rest Trouty...I dont see what you are trying to accomplish.

Chris, he has slandered our guys in many posts. Our franchise as well. Then he picks on certain posters but never responds to me.

But perhaps you're right, brudda. Thanks for lending perspective, my man. Sincerely.
 

Redball Express

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I don't see Tony being traded. Sounds good in theory but coming off serious injuries and big money owed, not to mention we have no depth at the position
The most likely scenario IsTony getting released in the off season
Me neither..no Romo trade.

After so many years of QB uncertainty..

just when we finally get something in DAK..

and we would dump that?

We have a chance with both of them to get us where we want to go.

Can we imagine having them both playing great so now if something happens..

we have the other.

Seasons don't come sketching to a halt if one goes down.

I hope additionally Sanchez would stay after this season to help us roll.

We'll see.
 

Verdict

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But you don't though.

Trading him now accelerates his remaining prorated signing bonus and actually costs an additional $11.1M in cap room. Which means the Cowboys would have to somehow create $5.9M in cap room immediately just to be able to trade him.

If he was traded, cut, or he chose to retire this next off-season, it would free up an additional $5.1M in cap room (his 2017 cap hit of $24.7M cap hit minus accelerated prorated bonus hit of $19.6). It also means the Cowboys are no longer paying him a $14M base salary (real money, as opposed to fictional cap space) AND he is completely off the books when the 2018 season starts.

If he was cut or retired next off-season, and the team decided to make him a June 1st cut, the team would gain $14M in cap space, but that would not be available until June 1st, long after most free agents have signed. In that scenario, Romo would still be on the 2018 books for $8.9M as well.

While the cap makes it very difficult to trade Romo during this year, Prescott's limited track record (only 6 games) would drive up the Cowboys asking price on Romo. It makes a trade improbable, BUT if a trade does happen, you know a team is going to have to overpay to get Romo because of the difficulty and uncertainty in it. The only team I can think of that would be willing to pull that trigger is Denver, because the draft picks aren't as valuable to them as Romo is. Their window will be closing soon because of the cap. The stars are somewhat aligned there. Plus they expect their pick to be #32 if they make that trade.

If Denver trades even three #1's for Romo, he is a relatively cheap franchise QB (they are only paying his salary), they have familiarity with Romo (wade is the DC) and their window will be slamming shut relatively soon anyway because of their own cap leverage. Romo might net them three super bowl appearances. If the Cowboys don't plan on starting Romo over Dak, or they don't think Romo will win them a super bowl, they should look to trade Romo for three late round number ones from Denver. And yes he is worth that to Denver. Maybe only to Denver during this year, but there is no doubt he puts Denver over the top. They will have no chance vs the Patriots without him. They are a QB away from beating the Patriots for the next couple of years. Are they willing to piss off the window of that dominant defense? Ask Minnesota about that one.
 
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