News: Updates: New WR Gets "Awesome" Review From OC

[ConstantReboot]

I like Tolbert, but his skillset screams #2/redzone threat. He's unlikely to be able to create separation due to lack of explosiveness.

He runs a 4.4 and seems plenty quick to me. I think he is our fastest reciever.

 

[Typhus]

And you can get a bunch of bad ones, too. Hopefully, we found the really good one instead of the several bad or just OK ones.

He has good size, a 4.49 guy, and in a deep WR class Tolbert got overlooked by some.
It’s rare that one skill-position player dictates an entire offensive attack and keeps the engine running, but Tolbert did that for South Alabama during his time there.

 

[Typhus]

He runs a 4.4 and seems plenty quick to me. I think he is our fastest reciever.

CD clocked a 4.5 at his combine, that might be the closest.

 

[CowboyoWales]

I liked this pick a lot. Don’t like that they almost took him in 2. He was one of 4 WRs that I heard pre-Rd 2 but many thought near the bottom of the round. Patience paid off.

Yep, but that's one of the skills of the draft, able to analyse the league and where players are going to fall.....(Tolbert to be available in the 3rd, whereas Sam Williams wouldnt).

 

[IrishAnto]

Hopefully the OC can produce a scheme to get our new "Awesome" WR the ball.

 

[kskboys]

He runs a 4.4 and seems plenty quick to me. I think he is our fastest reciever.

Speed, yes. He's already a noted deep threat. Monster of a difference between speed and quickness.

 

[kskboys]

He has good size, a 4.49 guy, and in a deep WR class Tolbert got overlooked by some.
It’s rare that one skill-position player dictates an entire offensive attack and keeps the engine running, but Tolbert did that for South Alabama during his time there.

Lack of explosiveness scared most teams off, I'd imagine. Also had quite a few drops and concentration issues.

I like the guy as a prospect, and he appears to have been drafted around where he should have.

 

[gimmesix]

He has good size, a 4.49 guy, and in a deep WR class Tolbert got overlooked by some.
It’s rare that one skill-position player dictates an entire offensive attack and keeps the engine running, but Tolbert did that for South Alabama during his time there.

Understandable, but if you look at receivers who have been taken in the third round and failed, you can say similarly glowing things. Not saying he won't turn out, but just that it's myth that it's easy to find quality receivers in the third round. In another third, I listed several receivers over the past few years who have been drafted in the third round, and I believe there was about a 50 percent hit rate on finding key contributors.

Now, one advantage Tolbert has is that we're not really looking for him to be the No. 1 or No. 2 receiver, although he might have to assume that role if Washington can't handle being the No. 2 while Gallup is out. I hope it turns out well and I like what I read and see about him, but we have about a 50/50 chance of success.

 

[nalam]

Too bad Moore isn't Awesome!

He is fresh out of gimmicks and dont know how to attack strong physical defenses , Ouch

 

[speedkilz88]

Speed, yes. He's already a noted deep threat. Monster of a difference between speed and quickness.

Yet his 10 and 20 times are much quicker than Gallup's times and right in line with the quickest in the 1st round this year.

Jalen Tolbert
10 1.49
20 2.58
40 4.49

Garrett Wilson
10 1.53
20 2.56
40 4.38

Chris Olave
10 1.45
20 2.46
40 4.39

Jahan Dotson
10 1.56
20 2.57
40 4.43

Treylon Burks
10 1.57
20 2.65
40 4.55

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalen_Tolbert
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garret...ican_football)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Olave
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahan_Dotson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treylon_Burks

 

[Beaker42]

How fast can he learn to run to the sticks then turn around? Because he'll be doing that 80% of the time.

What did I miss - he’s Witten’s replacement??

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

What did I miss - he’s Witten’s replacement??

No. Moore has been known to call all sticks a lot. Where every WR and the TE runs just beyond the first down marker then turns around. All sticks is a leftover from the Garrett years.

 

[Typhus]

Yet his 10 and 20 times are much quicker than Gallup's times and right in line with the quickest in the 1st round this year.

Jalen Tolbert
10 1.49
20 2.58
40 4.49

Garrett Wilson
10 1.53
20 2.56
40 4.38

Chris Olave
10 1.45
20 2.46
40 4.39

Jahan Dotson
10 1.56
20 2.57
40 4.43

Treylon Burks
10 1.57
20 2.65
40 4.55

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalen_Tolbert
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garret...ican_football)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Olave
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahan_Dotson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treylon_Burks

Was a very deep class this year and coming away with Tolbert in the 3rd was a great value.
Just think if we wouldnt have drafted a WR in this rich WR class, peeps would be going insane right now.
Instead there are some that are already devaluing the Tolbert selection, and its a lazy agenda.
This post obviously is not directed at you but in agreement with taking that value in the 3rd, when they were weighing Tolbert vs Sam with the 2nd.
Think this board would have blown if we took Tolbert with the 2nd pick, but I bet when the dust clears, Tolbert will define his own value and prove to be one heck of a 3rd round value.
Its more than just theTolbert addition, Washington comes in and I dont buy into the concept that he was a lazy pick by the Steelers, just feel that Washington was drafted into a declining situation to begin with with a declining offense and aging Big Ben.
Gallup already speeding up his rehab calendar.

 

[DeaconMoss]

4:22 p.m. - Just a two-word answer was all Kellen Moore needed to describe his newest drafted wide receiver.

"He's awesome," said Moore, the Cowboys' offensive coordinator when asked about rookie Jalen Tolbert. "I think he works his tail off. I think you can tell how prepared he is and how detailed he wants to be. I think he's going to be a really good addition for us."

Tolbert, a third-round pick from South Alabama, was nearly the Cowboys' second-round pick. So obviously, the team was ecstatic to land him in the third. And with Michael Gallup still rehabbing a torn ACL injury that could jeopardize his chances of playing Week 1, Tolbert will get the chance to show his versatility.

"We'll try to get him to learn as many spots as possible. We'll start him in a Z-type position, maybe play him in the slot," Moore said. "We'll get him moved all around the field. We like to do that with a number of our receivers. So, we'll do the same thing with him."

Updates: New WR Gets “Awesome” Review From OC (dallascowboys.com)

Can he catch balls thrown behind him, over his head, and at his feet? That is what he truly needs to be successful.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Lack of explosiveness scared most teams off, I'd imagine. Also had quite a few drops and concentration issues.

I like the guy as a prospect, and he appears to have been drafted around where he should have.

He got drafted where he was because this was such a deep, deep receiver class. Otherwise he would have gone higher.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Speed, yes. He's already a noted deep threat. Monster of a difference between speed and quickness.

He is plenty quick. Note that someone already posted his 10 and 20 times which is on par with some of the top receivers in this draft class.

 

[jterrell]

And you can get a bunch of bad ones, too. Hopefully, we found the really good one instead of the several bad or just OK ones.

Sure, you can miss with any pick if you suck at drafting or just get unlucky with injuries.
But Cooper Kupp might be the best WR in football and he was round 3.
Scary Terry R3.
Tyler Lockett
Keenan Allen
Gallup

It's pretty easy to hit on a talented WR in round 3. A lot of positions are far harder to find NFL caliber guys outside round 1 or 2.

Dallas should probably look to draft a round 3-4 WR every year.
Especially if they are going to keep stockpiling picks to maximize cap dollars.

Tyreke Hill just got paid QB money as a former 5th round WR.

 

[gimmesix]

Sure, you can miss with any pick if you suck at drafting or just get unlucky with injuries.
But Cooper Kupp might be the best WR in football and he was round 3.
Scary Terry R3.
Tyler Lockett
Keenan Allen
Gallup

It's pretty easy to hit on a talented WR in round 3. A lot of positions are far harder to find NFL caliber guys outside round 1 or 2.

Dallas should probably look to draft a round 3-4 WR every year.
Especially if they are going to keep stockpiling picks to maximize cap dollars.

Tyreke Hill just got paid QB money as a former 5th round WR.

Again, it's not that easy. It's a 50 percent hit rate. That means half the picks fail. Sure, it's easy to point out the good ones ... the reasons you keep taking receivers in the third round. But thinking I can just get one and it'll work out just doesn't fit the evidence. You can say if you can't find a good one, you just suck at drafting, but that isn't true. Both good and bad drafting teams miss.

Let's just take a 10-year period (2010-2020) since it's harder to judge receivers who've been in the league only a year.

2010 (4 hits, 4 misses)
Damian Williams (Tennessee) miss; 107 catches, 1,327 yards for career
Brandon LaFell (Carolina) marginal hit; never had a 1,000-yard season, but came close
Emmanuel Sanders (Pittsburgh) hit; three 1,000-yard seasons
Jordan Shipley (Green Bay) miss, had 79 receptions for 858 yards in his career
Eric Decker (Denver) hit; had three 1,000-yard seasons
Andre Roberts (Arizona) hit; maybe not a success as a receiver, but an All-Pro as a returner
Armanti Edwards (Carolina) absolute miss 40 rec. 281 yards for career
Taylor Price (New England) absolute miss 5 rec., 80 yards for career

2011 (0 hits, 4 misses)
Austin Pettis (St. Louis) miss; 107 rec., 1,034 yards for career
Leonard Hankerson (Washington) miss; 107 rec. 1,048 yards for career
Vincent Brown (San Diego) miss, 133 receptions, 941 yards for career
Jerrel Jernigan (NY Giants) miss; 39 rec., 492 yards for career

2012 (2 hits, 2 misses)
DeVier Posey (Houston) miss; 22 catches, 272 yards for career
T.J. Graham (Buffalo) miss; 61 rec., 794 yards for career
Mohamed Sanu (Cincinnati) marginal hit; no season with more than 67 catches, 838 yards
T.Y. Hilton (Indianapolis) big hit; five 1,000-yard seasons

2013 (3 hits, 2 misses)
Terrance Williams (Dallas) marginal hit; no season with more than 53 rec., 840 yards
Keenan Allen (San Diego) big hit; five 1,000-yard seasons
Marquise Goodwin (Buffalo) marginal hit; no season with more than 56 rec., 962 yards
Markus Wheaton (Pittsburgh) miss; 110 rec., 1,559 yards for career
Stedman Bailey (St. Louis) major miss; 59 catches, 843 yards for career

2014 (2 hits, 2 misses)
Josh Huff (Philadelphia) big miss; 51 rec., 523 yards for career
Donte Moncrief (Indianapolis) marginal hit; bests 69 rec., 668 yards
John Brown (Arizona) hit, two 1,000-yard seasons
Dri Archer (Pittsburgh) absolute miss; not sure why he's listed as a receiver, so I'm not going to count him in the total; had 7 rec., 40 yards in career

I'm going to quit there because I'm putting a lot of work in for something you will probably either ignore or dismiss. The numbers (11 hits, 14 misses) say there's even less of a chance of hitting on a receiver in the third round than what I've said, and the chances of hitting on a star receiver are very low. Out of 25 players, only 5 had/have had 1,000-yard seasons in their career.

The odds are actually against Tolbert succeeding, but we've had pretty good luck with third-round receivers at least being decent contributors. I'm just saying that I don't know if we should absolutely count on that continuing. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[speedkilz88]

Again, it's not that easy. It's a 50 percent hit rate. That means half the picks fail. Sure, it's easy to point out the good ones ... the reasons you keep taking receivers in the third round. But thinking I can just get one and it'll work out just doesn't fit the evidence. You can say if you can't find a good one, you just suck at drafting, but that isn't true. Both good and bad drafting teams miss.

Let's just take a 10-year period (2010-2020) since it's harder to judge receivers who've been in the league only a year.

2010 (4 hits, 4 misses)
Damian Williams (Tennessee) miss; 107 catches, 1,327 yards for career
Brandon LaFell (Carolina) marginal hit; never had a 1,000-yard season, but came close
Emmanuel Sanders (Pittsburgh) hit; three 1,000-yard seasons
Jordan Shipley (Green Bay) miss, had 79 receptions for 858 yards in his career
Eric Decker (Denver) hit; had three 1,000-yard seasons
Andre Roberts (Arizona) hit; maybe not a success as a receiver, but an All-Pro as a returner
Armanti Edwards (Carolina) absolute miss 40 rec. 281 yards for career
Taylor Price (New England) absolute miss 5 rec., 80 yards for career

2011 (0 hits, 4 misses)
Austin Pettis (St. Louis) miss; 107 rec., 1,034 yards for career
Leonard Hankerson (Washington) miss; 107 rec. 1,048 yards for career
Vincent Brown (San Diego) miss, 133 receptions, 941 yards for career
Jerrel Jernigan (NY Giants) miss; 39 rec., 492 yards for career

2012 (2 hits, 2 misses)
DeVier Posey (Houston) miss; 22 catches, 272 yards for career
T.J. Graham (Buffalo) miss; 61 rec., 794 yards for career
Mohamed Sanu (Cincinnati) marginal hit; no season with more than 67 catches, 838 yards
T.Y. Hilton (Indianapolis) big hit; five 1,000-yard seasons

2013 (3 hits, 2 misses)
Terrance Williams (Dallas) marginal hit; no season with more than 53 rec., 840 yards
Keenan Allen (San Diego) big hit; five 1,000-yard seasons
Marquise Goodwin (Buffalo) marginal hit; no season with more than 56 rec., 962 yards
Markus Wheaton (Pittsburgh) miss; 110 rec., 1,559 yards for career
Stedman Bailey (St. Louis) major miss; 59 catches, 843 yards for career

2014 (2 hits, 2 misses)
Josh Huff (Philadelphia) big miss; 51 rec., 523 yards for career
Donte Moncrief (Indianapolis) marginal hit; bests 69 rec., 668 yards
John Brown (Arizona) hit, two 1,000-yard seasons
Dri Archer (Pittsburgh) absolute miss; not sure why he's listed as a receiver, so I'm not going to count him in the total; had 7 rec., 40 yards in career

I'm going to quit there because I'm putting a lot of work in for something you will probably either ignore or dismiss. The numbers (11 hits, 14 misses) say there's even less of a chance of hitting on a receiver in the third round than what I've said, and the chances of hitting on a star receiver are very low. Out of 25 players, only 5 had/have had 1,000-yard seasons in their career.

The odds are actually against Tolbert succeeding, but we've had pretty good luck with third-round receivers at least being decent contributors. I'm just saying that I don't know if we should absolutely count on that continuing. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

To be fair, colleges are putting out better WR talent recently. More spread offenses and passing instead of the old run offenses.

 

[gimmesix]

To be fair, colleges are putting out better WR talent recently. More spread offenses and passing instead of the old run offenses.

The previous look I took at it was more recent and the hit rate is close to the same. Here are the receivers from 2018-2020: Michael Gallup, Tre'Quan Smith, Diontae Johnson, Jalen Hurd, Terry McLaurin, Miles Boykin, Lynn Bowden Jr., Bryan Edwards and Devin Durvenay. I've bolded the ones who had at least 50 catches and/or 700 yards in a season to keep expectations lower. Durvenay doesn't have the receiving numbers, but he's made a Pro Bowl as a returner. Most of the ones not in bold, you could lower the expectation rate and they still would not make it.

So that's four hits and five misses.