Upon Further Review

J-man

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I'm curious about a lot of things with this defense. Like how much 3/4 will they run? How much 4/3, how much nickel? And how/where are they going to use the guys we already had and especially the guys we just signed in FA. Galimore, Hill, D-Law, Anae, Amrstrong, Basham, Urban and Watkins. If they're running a 3/4, it seems we have gobs of DE's but not many NT's and behind Parsons and Gregory, there are not many true OLB's either.
 

Stash

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I think Urban is the guy they want playing the NT or 1T. I dont see anyway they are relying on a rookie 6th rounder. And if they were depending ONLY on the draft, then they would have tried harder to get a NT with a higher pick.

I think Urban is too tall to play the nose. He will always lose the leverage battle and have guys underneath him. And I think the team views the position much like safety, not a high priority. Right or wrong I think they believe that there are plenty of candidates.

As far as gregory, its a little interesting, but are you saying he should play outside backer in the 3-4 and rush from a standup position?

I think he can and will at times, but I think he will also rush with his hand down when they go to nickel. I think he’s capable of doing both.
 

Stash

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I'm fine with the 3-4 given the roster moves, but not if it means Tank is standing. Ever. I realize the Cowboys will rarely be in base D, but I don't ever want to see that again.

I think they’ll give Lawrence the option to do what he’s comfortable with.
 

jazzcat22

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Regarding this year's draft, I was one of many who weren't overly thrilled with the draft decisions that were made. But after looking into things more closely, I have changed my mind quite a bit. Hearing Dan Quinn's press conference, I realized that I was under the mistaken impression that the team was drafting for a 4-3 defense when this was not the case.

Initially, I was not a fan of drafting Micah Parsons, given what the team had already put into Jaylon Smith, Leighton Vander Esch, and the signing of Keanu Neal. But looking at things through that '3-4 lens', the decisions look much smarter.

I also felt that Odighizuwa and Golston were poor choices for 4-3 defensive tackle and defensive end respectively. It turns out that I now think I was wrong, and that both in fact were drafted to be 3-4 defensive ends, a position with far different athletic requirements.

Looking deeper, it looks like the Carlos Watkins and Brent Urban signings were to play 3-4 end as well. The signs were there, but I didn't see them until now. And I actually credit the team for not formally announcing the scheme prior to the draft. They kept that news quiet and did not give opponents the opportunity to assume what players they were looking for. I think that was a smart move, as well as the talk of downgrading players who opted out in 2020. Given who they drafted, that was clearly not the case. I'm giving Jerry credit for throwing that chum in the water as well. I criticize when I feel he gives out to much information, so I give credit where I feel it's due when he slips in some disinformation.

My initial draft grade was a C if I recall correctly. Given what I know now, I will gladly readjust my grade to an A-. Other than the off-the-wall pick of Nahshon Wright, the haul looks much better today.

Great post. Hopefully it opens some eyes to change a few fans thinking as well. It did mine. I was kind of, well ok, they got some good players, but let's see what the others can do as well. A wait and see approach. Which I still will have.
However seeing it this way as well as you describe it, I do feel a little better about the draft. I was anyway, after reading more on each player, seeing highlight videos.
I had them around a C or C+, then went to B-, but looking more at B+ now.

As for the offense.
I do like the Fehoko kid, we needed a big tall WR, that can become an end zone threat. I think he will be my pet cat on offense this TC.
 

CowboyRoy

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I think Urban is too tall to play the nose. He will always lose the leverage battle and have guys underneath him. And I think the team views the position much like safety, not a high priority. Right or wrong I think they believe that there are plenty of candidates.



I think he can and will at times, but I think he will also rush with his hand down when they go to nickel. I think he’s capable of doing both.

So based on your analysis, Bohanna is our only NT and the Cowboys didnt have the position filled until the 6th round of the draft?

Not buying that one. I think they whiffed on the position again and scrambled in the 6th round to take Bohanna.
 

gimmesix

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I'm fine with the 3-4 given the roster moves, but not if it means Tank is standing. Ever. I realize the Cowboys will rarely be in base D, but I don't ever want to see that again.

I don't think he will be standing, which is why the base will look more like a 4-3 instead of a 3-4, even if it is technically a 3-4. I think he'll essentially be the DPR in those alignments. However, I think we'll have three big uns up front next to him (instead of a small DE on the other side) and Parsons will be used more like a 3-4 linebacker, rushing some and covering some. I do not think we will see Lawrence dropping into coverage much at all.
 

Hawkeye0202

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I’m not sure how much of the 34 look we’re going to see. In his press conference, Quinn said that the early down or base will “look like a 34” but that 60 to 70 percent of the time they would be in the nickel/dime which will have four down linemen.

When asked about Odighizuwa, he immediately said he would be a 3-tech DT to provide an inside pass rush. He didn’t hesitate and he didn’t say that Owa would be playing some 4-tech or 5-tech DE. He specified right away that he was a 3.

Now that doesn’t mean that Odighizuwa won’t play any DE... but it does mean that the primary reason they drafted him was to play inside in a 4 man line.

I have no doubt that he brought in Urban and Watkins to play in the “34 look” packages to play some two gap as run stoppers. In some sets in the past, Quinn has used some sets where he has a 4-tech DE and a 1 tech that are both playing two-gap while the 3T and the DE/LEO are 1-gap. It is really a 4 man look but Urban/Watkins could be playing two gap while Odighizuwa and Gregory would be 1 gapping.

Ultimately, the defense will be multiple, just like they told us it would. And we have to assume that Quinn and the Cowboys drafted these guys with a role or roles specifically in mind for them. Many of them, like Odighizuwa, can play 1 or two gap and can do more than 1 thing. That is good and it probably wasn’t by accident.

what we do know (because Quinn told us so) is that the defense will be an attacking, aggressive defense and with all the new guys, it is going to be fascinating to see how Quinn is going to use all of these guys. Unlike last season, they’ll be prepared, play hard and know what their assignments are.

I can’t wait.

What's interesting .......it appears Quinn has brought certain players to fit his system vs Nolan tried to force certain players to fit his system ( w/o a training camp or preseason games I might add ).
 

jazzcat22

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I am to the point, I don't care what the alignment is. 3-4, 4-3, 4-2-5. It depends more on the opponent and their offensive schemes as well in a way. But I think the defense needs to dictate to the offense what play to run, not let the offense dictate the defensive alignment.

Doesn't matter the overall alignment as long as they all work. Get us to average, 15 to 18 range and by the 10 or 12th game, play like a top 10 or 12.
 

gimmesix

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I think Urban is the guy they want playing the NT or 1T. I dont see anyway they are relying on a rookie 6th rounder. And if they were depending ONLY on the draft, then they would have tried harder to get a NT with a higher pick.

As far as gregory, its a little interesting, but are you saying he should play outside backer in the 3-4 and rush from a standup position?

I could see Urban playing there some because of his run-stopping ability or perhaps Odighizuwa, who held up well at the nose in college despite his weight. Remember back when Parcells converted us to the 3-4, he had Ratliff playing the nose after Ferguson went down.

I don't think either is ideal because of Urban's height and Osa's size, but I don't see us just relying on a late-round pick to be able to step into the role as a rookie. However, that's probably the hope, that Bohanna can handle that role. If so, we could play Osa and Urban next to him on early downs for a stout run front.
 

gimmesix

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What's interesting .......it appears Quinn has brought certain players to fit his system vs Nolan tried to force certain players to fit his system ( w/o a training camp or preseason games I might add ).

I certainly like that better than "we'll make the system fit the players" and then not doing that.
 

texbumthelife

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I am to the point, I don't care what the alignment is. 3-4, 4-3, 4-2-5. It depends more on the opponent and their offensive schemes as well in a way. But I think the defense needs to dictate to the offense what play to run, not let the offense dictate the defensive alignment.

Doesn't matter the overall alignment as long as they all work. Get us to average, 15 to 18 range and by the 10 or 12th game, play like a top 10 or 12.

Agreed. I want the Cowboys to impose on the offense instead of always being reactionary. I think having guys like Neal, Parsons, and Cox does exactly that. It allows us to stay much larger in nickel defense and hopefully not get pushed around, but also be able to cover. This D should be incredibly versatile now and go onto the field looking to dictate, not be dictated to.
 

buybuydandavis

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I'm fine with the 3-4 given the roster moves, but not if it means Tank is standing. Ever. I realize the Cowboys will rarely be in base D, but I don't ever want to see that again.

That's the downside of coaching changes with a front office with no football philosophy of its own.

DLaw and his contract seem like a bad fit for a 3-4 scheme.
 

JBS

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I think you overreacted initially with your assessment of the class and I also think you are over correcting your position now. I think somewhere in between is fair. But that's my opinion of course.

You make a lot of great points in this thread, so I'm not suggesting everything you are saying is wrong, that's definitely not the case.

But in order for this class to be as good as we hope, Osa and Gholston have to be more than just depth pieces. Now nothing suggests that they are only depth pieces, but if that's how it turns out, then this class won't be an A-. I always liked the first two picks of this class, so I was never someone who thought this draft was a complete failure. But in order for this class to be an A-, we need to hit on more than just those two guys. I don't think it's unrealistic for us to hit on 4 or 5 guys from this class, so an A- is definitely possible, but I'm not sure how likely that is. We can only wait and see.
 

dwmyers

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Not a 3-4. It's the Pete Carroll Seattle 4-3 hybrid. I have a draft article on the Wikipedia about it (getting it in draft status was a huge mistake)..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Seattle_4-3_hybrid_defense

For those of you who can't handle what I post on wikipedia, I willl recomment this Bob Condotta article on the Seattle Times about it.. Bucky Brooks also has a good article on it..

Defense 101

In the article we get this quote from DQ:

“Our end and nose and tackle are our three big guys,’’ Quinn said. “So we are half 4-3, half 3-4. They have to be big enough and stout enough to play the run, and then when we go into nickel is when we move a guy like Bennett to defensive tackle or Bruce (Irvin) to a defensive end spot.’’
 

JBS

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I’m not sure how much of the 34 look we’re going to see. In his press conference, Quinn said that the early down or base will “look like a 34” but that 60 to 70 percent of the time they would be in the nickel/dime which will have four down linemen.

When asked about Odighizuwa, he immediately said he would be a 3-tech DT to provide an inside pass rush. He didn’t hesitate and he didn’t say that Owa would be playing some 4-tech or 5-tech DE. He specified right away that he was a 3.

Now that doesn’t mean that Odighizuwa won’t play any DE... but it does mean that the primary reason they drafted him was to play inside in a 4 man line.

I have no doubt that he brought in Urban and Watkins to play in the “34 look” packages to play some two gap as run stoppers. In some sets in the past, Quinn has used some sets where he has a 4-tech DE and a 1 tech that are both playing two-gap while the 3T and the DE/LEO are 1-gap. It is really a 4 man look but Urban/Watkins could be playing two gap while Odighizuwa and Gregory would be 1 gapping.

Ultimately, the defense will be multiple, just like they told us it would. And we have to assume that Quinn and the Cowboys drafted these guys with a role or roles specifically in mind for them. Many of them, like Odighizuwa, can play 1 or two gap and can do more than 1 thing. That is good and it probably wasn’t by accident.

what we do know (because Quinn told us so) is that the defense will be an attacking, aggressive defense and with all the new guys, it is going to be fascinating to see how Quinn is going to use all of these guys. Unlike last season, they’ll be prepared, play hard and know what their assignments are.

I can’t wait.

Man, I sure hope so. All defensive coordinators talk the talk about how they want to be physical and play downhill, blah blah blah..but you almost never see it. Maybe it's harder said than done. I don't know.

I will give them credit, they drafted guys to help make playing aggressive and downhill possible, so hopefully they can actually do it. I'm sick of playing soft defensively, I hate it.
 

AsthmaField

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That's the downside of coaching changes with a front office with no football philosophy of its own.

DLaw and his contract seem like a bad fit for a 3-4 scheme.
They will primarily play with 4 down linemen. Quinn said 70% of the time. If Lawrence is out some when they’re trying to shut down the run, that doesn’t lower his value. They want him for when they’re in a 4 man line and pinning their ears to get to the QB… which will be the same amount of time as previous seasons (70%) because they’ll be in nickel/dime about the same.

Dallas had a defensive philosophy ever since they fired Ryan as defensive coordinator and brought in Kiffen. Since then, they’ve been a Tampa 43 defense and have drafted for that. It is a little outdated these days, so they’re wisely switching to a more modern, multiple defense and, like any other team switching, they’ll have to draft guys who fit it.

To say they never have a defensive philosophy is disingenuous and because of some tweet the other day it is being parroted around this forum. It isn’t true.

Dallas needs to get modern on that side of the ball and this draft is a big step in that direction.
 

dwmyers

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Not a 3-4. It's the Pete Carroll Seattle 4-3 hybrid. I have a draft article on the Wikipedia about it (getting it in draft status was a huge mistake)..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Seattle_4-3_hybrid_defense

For those of you who can't handle what I post on wikipedia, I willl recomment this Bob Condotta article on the Seattle Times about it.. Bucky Brooks also has a good article on it..

Defense 101

In the article we get this quote from DQ:

And why do I keep making this point? This defense can make real use of tweeners. The Leo can be smaller than a typical 4-3 RDE. The big end can be smaller than a 3-4 DE. When they
haven't had enough big ends due to injury, they work with 1 gap 4-3 style RDEs. We have one of the best 1 gap RDEs in the business, named DeMarcus Lawrence.
 
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