US Soccer! Gold Cup Tonight

[jterrell]

It may be their golden era; but are they golden enough to take down teams like Spain or Germany?

Sure, I think they have the talent to win against one of those teams I'm just not as confident that they will. Teams such as Italy and Holland could take them as well I am just less confident in them.


Mata is a beast... but are you just talking about Chelsea players at a young age?

I'm very high on Hazard... I put him right up there in the same class as a player like Neymar in young talents. I was not happy when he went to Chelsea.

Teams as good as Germany or Spain can obviously beat anyone on any given day.
If I am taking a team give me Belgium, but if you wanted Germany or Spain I am hardly laughing at you.
The real challenge for the European teams will be playing in this hemisphere.
Hard to ignore that long history. And South America has a ton of top clubs with even Columbia coming alive now.

Hazard is a much better player than Neymar to me.
Neymar is obviously otherworldly but his maturity is a real question.
Hazard has insane pace and considerable passing ability. His 12 (I think) assists were second only to Mata for Chelsea.
Bright, bright future.
And Lukaku is his best friend. Those two are just babies but will murder people in Brazil.

 

[RastaRocket]

It's not like Belgium is facing top opposition either. Ballack has nothing to do with the World Cup and Marin doesn't either. I just mentioned him as a young German talent. It's not the deepest league but they had the two champions league finalists with most of the German starting lineup playing in that game outisde of a guy Ozil really. Their A team is top notch and better than Belgium IMO.

It's not like the Belgians had anything to do with Chelsea's run at the Champions League.

 

[jterrell]

Poland and Denmark where examples i don't really follow neither but they are widely considered 2 to 3rd tier European teams (like Belgium) so i mentioned them without really caring how their play is currently, both even in down years would still give the US and Mexico a run for their money though because the US and Mexico are on that level. Since you are so happy to go digging 2 years back for some good Mexican results why don't you do that for Denmark and Poland as well?

And congrats you actually made a legit point the bottom European team are trash way to enlightening us like we didn't already know that... that's pretty far off the UEFA is overrated stuff you where saying earlier. Europe is consistently finishing 1 or 2 in the world cup no concaf team will ever do that and no concaf team will ever be a "easy money bet" to make the final 4 betting a UEFA team will is though.

i don't really see why people keep bringing up u21 results like it has any baring on A level play. Like i said Norway finished 3rd in the Euro U21 cup just last month the majority of players on that team are on the bench for games in the league here, the league here is horrible and these guys can't even crack the starting on their clubs 11 consistently yet finished 3rd in Europe in age specific play. What does that say about age specific results?
Unless most of these guys play in leagues where the level of play elevates theirs they're never going to take that next step. One or 2 players going to Europe isn't going to make their national team a top 4 or 5 team in the world any time soon unless we're talking Messi like talents but we're not

When it's all said and done the World cup next summer will back up my talk and we both know it, so talk up Mexico and the US while you can

Basically dude if you are gonna t me with nonsense you pull out of your behind we really can just stop discussing it.
You are clearly clueless.

I "went back" for Mexico because that was when we first has this debate dillweed. I have certainly allowed they are playing like crap now.
As for talent tho, no, neither Denmark or Poland(lewandowski aside) have the talent of Mexico or the US.
As a 20 year average sure. But not right now. It's not even close.
As to hanging with those clubs... doubtful. The US just blasted teams in the Gold Cup rated 20/30 spots above Poland/Denmark using their B team.
(The European League players weren't even there.)

 

[jterrell]

It's not like Belgium is facing top opposition either. Ballack has nothing to do with the World Cup and Marin doesn't either. I just mentioned him as a young German talent. It's not the deepest league but they had the two champions league finalists with most of the German starting lineup playing in that game outisde of a guy Ozil really. Their A team is top notch and better than Belgium IMO.

It's not like the Belgians had anything to do with Chelsea's run at the Champions League.

Huh?
Starting line-ups for tonight's UEFA Champions League final between German sides Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund
Borussia Dortmund: 1-Roman Weidenfeller; 26-Lukasz Piszczek, 4-Neven Subotic, 15-Mats Hummels, 29-Marcel Schmelzer; 8-Ilkay Gundogan, 6-Sven Bender, 16-Jakub Blaszczykowski, 19-Kevin Grosskreutz, 11-Marco Reus; 9-Robert Lewandowski.

Bayern Munich: 1-Manuel Neuer; 21-Philipp Lahm, 17-Jerome Boateng, 4-Dante, 27-David Alaba; 31-Bastian Schweinsteiger, 8-Javi Martinez; 10-Arjen Robben, 25-Thomas Mueller, 7-Franck Ribery; 9-Mario Mandzukic.

That's A LOT of non-Germans.

And the year earlier was similar versus Chelsea. Bayern had a ton of non-German starters.

Germany is producing plenty of talent but the top level guys are not as prevalent as you are suggesting imho.
Gundogan looks nasty but I'm not sold on many of the other young German stars. --btw same story in england. homegrown players are generally overrated.
I obviously hope Shurrle is a hit but I am worried. He's scored only a couple national team goals in the past couple years.

 

[RastaRocket]

Hummels, Schmelzer, Reus, Neuer, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Boateng, Mueller, Gunogan, and then Gotze could all be starting for the Germans. At the very least they will all be at the world cup and the majority starting. Key players for Germany.

Chelsea wasn't using Hazard or Lukaku. We'll see more Lukaku this season in London.

Germany is thin at striker but outside of striker they are golden.

 

[Ren]

Basically dude if you are gonna t me with nonsense you pull out of your behind we really can just stop discussing it.
You are clearly clueless.

I "went back" for Mexico because that was when we first has this debate dillweed. I have certainly allowed they are playing like crap now.
As for talent tho, no, neither Denmark or Poland(lewandowski aside) have the talent of Mexico or the US.
As a 20 year average sure. But not right now. It's not even close.
As to hanging with those clubs... doubtful. The US just blasted teams in the Gold Cup rated 20/30 spots above Poland/Denmark using their B team.
(The European League players weren't even there.)

You say uefa is overrated and you call other clueless. Stick to name calling bro, cause you're not making anyone look stupid but your self here

What amazing results have Mexico had lately to warrant a free pass? yes Denmark has been a huge disappointment in the qualifiers, but lets not pretend Mexico hasn't. The only reason why we know Mexico will turn it around is because of who they play not their "world class talent". Had they been trying to Qualify in UEFA they'd be in big trouble right now.

I never said Denmark or Poland was a world class teams or a safe bet for anything i said they where a 2nd to 3rd tier European teams and most people who have a clue what they're talking about will easily agree with that and that Mexico is about that level, their results lately most certainly backs that up. They can't compete with the top Euro teams and they can't compete with the top South American teams, right now they have their plate full trying to Qualify against concaf teams so a safe bet for the semi finals next year,.. I'll take a piece of that if anyone still wants to make that bet

 

[joseephuss]

keep in mind the us just got manhandled by the young belgians and destroyed a germany b side not long ago (not WC pertinent but it does speak to depth).
.

That was more like the Germany "B- or C" team.

 

[CATCH17]

That was more like the Germany "B- or C" team.

They had a lot of class players on the field for Germany B Team. More talent than what the US had even with our 1st team.

 

[CATCH17]

Hummels, Schmelzer, Reus, Neuer, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Boateng, Mueller, Gunogan, and then Gotze could all be starting for the Germans. At the very least they will all be at the world cup and the majority starting. Key players for Germany.

Chelsea wasn't using Hazard or Lukaku. We'll see more Lukaku this season in London.

Germany is thin at striker but outside of striker they are golden.

If thin at striker is Klose, Gomez, and Podolski then I would like to be thin at striker.

 

[CATCH17]

If I had to do a top 5 power ranking for the World Cup I would go..

1. Spain

2. Brazil

3. Italy

4. Germany

5. Argentina


France, Belgium, and Colombia are all solid sleepers.

I know it's homerish of me but if the US can defend I think we can find a goal or 2 against any club outside of Spain.


Mexico has just fallen off the map. They need Carlos Vela to come back and they need Dos Santos to start playing at the level he was before the last world cup.

 

[Ren]

I'd go with the same top 5 just slightly different order

1. Spain
2. Brazil
3. Germany
4. Argentina
5. Italy

 

[joseephuss]

And Lukaku is his best friend. Those two are just babies but will murder people in Brazil.

I'm interested in what type of year Lukaku has this season. At varying points during this off season there was talk of him staying out on loan. He needs to get some substantial playing time in order to prepare for the World Cup. And ideally for him he needs to do that with some better surrounding talent. Chelsea can provided that over West Brom.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

If you are laughing about Belgium you really need to study the sport before you post.
They are easily the hottest team in Europe after Spain and have the most exciting youth in the sport with the Chelsea lads and Kompany on defense is a monster.

Brazil will be VERY hard to beat at home to be sure. They have so much talent it is just ridiculous. The fatc they beat Spain shows they step up and play their best versus the best.

Belgium will not win the WC, no matter how "great" their youth is. Maybe they give it a good run at Euro 2016 next door but they will not do better than Italy, Germany, Spain, the big boys from Europe.

Anyway, Brazil is going to win at home or die tryin.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I'd go with the same top 5 just slightly different order

1. Spain
2. Brazil
3. Germany
4. Argentina
5. Italy

Argentina seems to fail when it counts now but maybe playing next door will assist them.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Belgium is it great position to make it the World Cup Final. They are atop of their group and have a nice goal differential right now with only 3 games left to play. They will be there next summer.

I don't think Brazil will win the World Cup next year. The Confederations Cup was tailor made for them. It was a short tournament and they had an extra day of rest headed into the final. It takes winning two extra games in the bigger World Cup Final tournament to win it all. That is more chance for them to lose. They have some great players, but I don't see them as a great team. Plus since they are the automatic qualifiers as the host nation they will only play in friendlies between now and then. That is not the best way to prepare for a WCF. I would bet the field over Brazil. Someone will upset them.

World Cup Finals, yes, but it was stated Belgium was going to the World Cup Final, that means top 2, highly doubtful.

 

[CATCH17]

Belgium has the attack and defending to beat anyone but I don't think they have the experience playing with one another yet

 

[Ren]

Argentina seems to fail when it counts now but maybe playing next door will assist them.

Messi alone makes me believe that this time will be different

 

[jterrell]

Current or at least Recent Vegas odds have this top 5.

Brazil
Argentina
Germany
Spain
Belgium

6th Italy and 7th Holland are ranked above Belgium at a couple books but not overall.

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Chelsea is apparently close to selling Torres and Lukaku should get heavy time at Chelsea. There's been Rooney talk but Lukaku is simply a better player at this point in their careers.

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I'd rank the top 5 as
Brazil --most athletic and skilled; yet inconsistent and moody.
Belgium --best collection of raw talent in Europe and getting better every game.
Spain --been the worlds best the past 3 years, some sign of slippage with brazil loss? probably not but they get a year older.
Germany --tons of quality players but lack the pure star power of Brazil or Belgium or Spain.
Uruguay --Best striking tandem anywhere and plays physical defense.

just out
Argentina--they forget to play defense rather a lot but can score 3 or4 on world class teams.
Italy--they forget to score from run of play rather a lot but can hold world class teams to 1 or less and score off set pieces very well. If Balotelli was sane they'd be in my top 5.

right now I'd place the US about 10th. that's the highest they've been and the best they've played in quite a while.
mexico is probably in the 20s and that's as low as they've been since the round of 16 bounce in South Africa.

can't wait to see the final draws for the WC. US is good enough to go far but obviously need some luck and good match ups.

 

[joseephuss]

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Chelsea is apparently close to selling Torres and Lukaku should get heavy time at Chelsea. There's been Rooney talk but Lukaku is simply a better player at this point in their careers.

.

That is a bold statement. Rooney doesn't look as good as he did a few years ago, but Lukaku is still so unproven. Plus it doesn't matter too much. If the blues bring in Rooney, they will play two forwards with Rooney underneath and whomever(Torres, Lukaku or Ba) else up top.

 

[jterrell]

That is a bold statement. Rooney doesn't look as good as he did a few years ago, but Lukaku is still so unproven. Plus it doesn't matter too much. If the blues bring in Rooney, they will play two forwards with Rooney underneath and whomever(Torres, Lukaku or Ba) else up top.

Not really. If you follow the recent news including a number of articles from England over the past week to 10 days Lukaku is all they are talking about.
He tore it up fpr Belgium in their national team work then came back to CFC and tore it up on the Asian tour. More importantly, physically he's simply bigger, faster and stronger than Rooney. Lukaku is 6'3" and over 220 pounds ripped pounds. He is basically Dez Bryant.
He's just turned 20 and has everything in front of him.

Rooney is rich beyond belief and hasn't been in form for a couple years now. He's not old but he has been sliding since he was 24/25.
His sale price is apparently 40m. Chelsea wouldn't sell Lukaku for 60m.

I believe Lukaku will be the best striker in the world over the next 3-4 years and will be the golden ball winner at the WC.