Vela's Blog - OLB Analysis

[CrazyCowboy]

Maybe I am wrong about Lawson and leaning a little more with Carpenter!

 

[MichaelWinicki]

So why do you gloss over negatives on Carpenter?

PFW, The Way We See It: "Scouts wanted to see him play in the Senior Bowl to answer questions about whether he could cover, but he chose not to play. Can handle simple task like rushing the passer and is used a lot with his hand on the ground to take advantage of his athletic ability and hide his average cover instincts. Scouts like him, but they don't love him and think he will get overdrafted because of his physical ability. Has some versatility and can fit on the strong side in a 4-3 scheme or inside in a 3-4."

Negatives:

"Has too many peaks and valleys in his performance and is not as consistent as he should be. Does not have great change of direction. Can be late to find the ball. Is too analytical and overanalyzes instead of seeing and going. Asks too many questions. "

edit/ Carpenter's **it stinks too. They all have flaws.

Hey, I don't think Carpenter is perfect... just a better fit for what we need.

 

[theogt]

The speed to be great in coverage? Speed doesn't necessitate coverage ability. If so the BJ Tucker would still be here.

So much of it is instincts and you have a guy that is not use to standing up and playing off the line of scrimmage (he hasn't done so in a couple of years) without his first responsibility being-- rushing the passer.

I didn't say speed alone is what it takes. I said that his speed will help him in coverage. To me, Carp is a liability in coverage. He lacks the athletic ability to match up with NFL TEs, much less go up against a WR with speed and agility in the slot. Lawson however could match up great. Maybe he has the mentality for coverage and maybe he doesn't. That can certainly be taught.

The way I see it there are three characteristics we need to look at.

Against the Run: Lawson < Carpenter
In Coverage: Lawson >>> Carpenter
Pass Rush: Lawson >>>>>>> Carpenter

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I didn't say speed alone is what it takes. I said that his speed will help him in coverage. To me, Carp is a liability in coverage. He lacks the athletic ability to match up with NFL TEs, much less go up against a WR with speed and agility in the slot. Lawson however could match up great. Maybe he has the mentality for coverage and maybe he doesn't. That can certainly be taught.

The way I see it there are three characteristics we need to look at.

Against the Run: Lawson < Carpenter
In Coverage: Lawson >>> Carpenter
Pass Rush: Lawson >>>>>>> Carpenter

But if you read Vela's blog there is an interesting remark that Carpenter had better closing speed to the QB than any of the others.

 

[Doomsday]

The thing about Carpenter that I like is that while he might not be a super star we're almost guaranteed to get a solid player for years to come. I hear a lot of Bruski/Vrable comparisons and we couldn't ask for a better complement to Ware than a player like that.

I agree! He adds a physical presence to the position as well.

 

[theogt]

But if you read Vela's blog there is an interesting remark that Carpenter had better closing speed to the QB than any of the others.

One guy's opinion. I disagreed with that the minute I read it. Watch any one of the numerous videos that have been posted of both players. Carpenter doesn't have anything on Lawson when it comes to speed, short or long distance.

 

[Rack]

So why do you gloss over negatives on Carpenter?

PFW, The Way We See It: "Scouts wanted to see him play in the Senior Bowl to answer questions about whether he could cover, but he chose not to play. Can handle simple task like rushing the passer and is used a lot with his hand on the ground to take advantage of his athletic ability and hide his average cover instincts. Scouts like him, but they don't love him and think he will get overdrafted because of his physical ability. Has some versatility and can fit on the strong side in a 4-3 scheme or inside in a 3-4."

Negatives:

"Has too many peaks and valleys in his performance and is not as consistent as he should be. Does not have great change of direction. Can be late to find the ball. Is too analytical and overanalyzes instead of seeing and going. Asks too many questions. "

edit/ Carpenter's **it stinks too. They all have flaws.

Ummm... I'm just guessing here... but maybe the reason he didn't play... is...


possibly...

cuz...


HE WAS FREAKIN' INJURED?!?!


And "asks too many questions"? You sh'in me? "Asks too many questions" is a negative?

WOW.​

Against the Run: Lawson < Carpenter
In Coverage: Lawson >>> Carpenter
Pass Rush: Lawson >>>>>>> Carpenter

Funny you have Lawson as better in coverage then Carpenter eventhough he's RARELY done it. You know he's that much better in coverage just based on his combine workouts? AMAZING.


And the pass rush part is laughable at best. Lawson is a speed rusher. Carpenter is the better PASS rusher.


Your MannyLove is getting out of hand.

 

[theogt]

My opinion of Lawson's coverage is based on (1) his speed and athletic ability, (2) his record when he has been used in coverage, which was apparently pretty darn good, and (3) the film I've seen of him.

Remember, I'm not saying Manny is going to be great in coverage. I'm just saying that it is probable, based upon what I've seen, that Manny will be better in coverage than Carpenter.

 

[neosapien23]

Ummm... I'm just guessing here... but maybe the reason he didn't play... is...


possibly...

cuz...


HE WAS FREAKIN' INJURED?!?!


And "asks too many questions"? You sh'in me? "Asks too many questions" is a negative?

WOW.​

Funny you have Lawson as better in coverage then Carpenter eventhough he's RARELY done it. You know he's that much better in coverage just based on his combine workouts? AMAZING.


And the pass rush part is laughable at best. Lawson is a speed rusher. Carpenter is the better PASS rusher.


Your MannyLove is getting out of hand.

I wanted Manny Lawson, but there is no way his coverage skills are better than Carpenter's. Carpenter is a much more polished player, but Lawson has great potential. Than again, I don't know if it would be wise to move Ware to the SOLB just to get Lawson. However, I have to disagree with your assessment on Carpenter being a better pass rusher. Lawson is much faster, has had more production in college (sacks), and is stronger despite not weighing as much as Carpenter. I do agree that Carpenter is a better fit for this team and have began to stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Lawson has had trouble stopping the run, something that Carpenter does excel at.

 

[theogt]

I wanted Manny Lawson, but there is no way his coverage skills are better than Carpenter's. Carpenter is a much more polished player, but Lawson has great potential. Than again, I don't know if it would be wise to move Ware to the SOLB just to get Lawson. However, I have to disagree with your assessment on Carpenter being a better pass rusher. Lawson is much faster, has had more production in college (sacks), and is stronger despite not weighing as much as Carpenter. I do agree that Carpenter is a better fit for this team and have began to stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Lawson has had trouble stopping the run, something that Carpenter does excel at.

?????

I've never seen this criticism. He's big and strong and his tackling is solid from what I've seen. This is a recipe for being good against the run.

 

[neosapien23]

?????

I've never seen this criticism. He's big and strong and his tackling is solid from what I've seen. This is a recipe for being good against the run.

Look at the game tape. Teams ran right at him and were able to get yards. He is a great pass rusher, but his lanky build doesn't help with stopping the run.

 

[theogt]

Look at the game tape. Teams ran right at him and were able to get yards. He is a great pass rusher, but his lanky build doesn't help with stopping the run.

Sure, as a 4-3 DE his a bit undersized. Not the case as a 3-4 OLB. He's taking on blockers differently and making tackles differently.

 

[neosapien23]

Sure, as a 4-3 DE his a bit undersized. Not the case as a 3-4 OLB. He's taking on blockers differently and making tackles differently.

OLBers still have to take on guards and tackles once in awhile in the 3-4. Carpenter has already shown he could do this. Lawson is certainly an intriguing pick, and he doesn't have an injury riddled history. If Dallas takes Lawson, I don't think he is big enough to play SOLB right now. Ware would have to be moved over and Lawson would have to play the weakside. Then again, that might now be such a bad thing after all.

 

[theogt]

OLBers still have to take on guards and tackles once in awhile in the 3-4.

Of course they do, but he's not taking them on at the proverbial "point of impact" where low center of gravity and power is more important.

 

[Vintage]

Wait, so how is Manny better in coverage?

Because of his "measurables?"

Carpenter played OLB at tOSU. In passing situations, he would also line up at DE.

That tells us two things; he can cover. And he can rush the QB.

Manny played DE in college. That tells us he can rush the QB.

 

[Vintage]

How does Carpenter have an injury riddled past?

He was injured ONCE during his collegiate career.

Was Newman have an injury riddled college career (since I guess, we are classifying injuries as having an injury riddled career)?

 

[gimmesix]

The detractors continue to say Carpenter is the most ready to play, but they can't say he is the better player. All the info out on the three, Carpenter is the lowest pick. Even PFWeekly and Kirwan seem to think he is an inside guy in the 3-4. All three players have flaws, but it seems Lawson is the one whose gets pointed out the most and Carpenter's the least.(of the three)

In NFLDraftsScouts.com's latest top 100, Wimbley is rated 13th, Carpenter 18th and Lawson 19th, so I don't think all the info out there has Carp as the lowest pick.

 

[theogt]

Wait, so how is Manny better in coverage?

Look up a page or so in the thread. I explained why I thought Manny will probably be better in coverage.

 

[neosapien23]

How does Carpenter have an injury riddled past?

He was injured ONCE during his collegiate career.

Was Newman have an injury riddled college career (since I guess, we are classifying injuries as having an injury riddled career)?

I didn't say that. That was more like a reference to Burnett and Rogers who both had injury concerns. One player was deemed a bust, and the other is still dinged up. Carpenter having a broken ankle is alot different than two guys who both had to have reconstructive surgeries. Lawson, Carpenter, and Wimbley are all intriguing picks and none of them have had an injury riddled college career.

 

[Vintage]

Look up a page or so in the thread. I explained why I thought Manny will probably be better in coverage.

You can stick to the probablies, I will stick to what was seen.

Carpenter was seen to show good coverage skills. Maybe not "outstanding", but good.....good enough to play OLB and do it well.