Ware, Wade and Finding a Cowboys Pass Rush

[T-RO]

Sacks are vastly overrated. So many happen in meaningless parts of games.

Congratulations on one of the zaniest posts of the month.

2015 team sack leaders
1- Denver 12-4
2- New England 12-4
3- Pittsburgh 10-6
4- Kansas City 11-5
5- Houston 9-7
6-Carolina 15-1
7- Detroit 7-9
8-Green Bay 10-6

Top 8 teams in sacks went 86-42, won the AFC title, NFC title. Best pass-rushing team won the Super Bowl and did so without the benefit of a good offense.

Other than that I can see your point!

 

[Wolfpack]

Thanks for more of the history, but how were the Cowboys going to come up with $18 million?

Ware ended up getting 3 years for $30 million from Denver. So out of 32 teams nobody valued him more than $10mil per year. We owed him almost twice that much.

Jerry had already "massaged" the hell out of the cap and was up against it for all his credit card spending.

Ware stated he would take a pay cut to $10M/year to stay. The FO offered him $5M. His dead money was close to $10M I think so I don't get how it made sense to release him for nothing rather than keep him at $10m/year which was a wash.

What was worse was that they had absolute no plan to replace him other than trading up for a grasp at a DE. Expensive mistakes.

 

[AzorAhai]

I don't know about that. Wade is from Texas and I'm sure he's now resigned to the fact that he'll never be a head coach again.

I think Jerry could make it *very* attractive to come back. Denver is going to get pinched in free agency, has no quarterback and will not have the championship window that Phillips could enjoy in Dallas.

It's not going to happen because Garrett wouldn't want him back on the staff after what happened. Let alone Wade wanting to be back after how everything went down. Wade was a lame duck and it got pretty ugly towards the end.

I would be all for switching back to a 3-4 (mainly because the players are easier to find nowadays) and bringing Wade back as a DC, but I see no scenario where it happens while Garrett is the HC.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Congratulations on one of the zaniest posts of the month.

2015 team sack leaders
1- Denver 12-4
2- New England 12-4
3- Pittsburgh 10-6
4- Kansas City 11-5
5- Houston 9-7
6-Carolina 15-1
7- Detroit 7-9
8-Green Bay 10-6

Top 8 teams in sacks went 86-42, won the AFC title, NFC title. Best pass-rushing team won the Super Bowl and did so without the benefit of a good offense.

Other than that I can see your point!

Agreed. Since when did it become better to get pressures than sacks? That's like say pass deflections are better than interceptions. This is not to say pressures aren't important, because they are. Some pressure is better than no pressure.

 

[KJJ]

We need to start addressing the DL like we did our OL. We got serious about building a great OL and it's paid off and we need to follow the same approach with our DL. We need players to collapse the pocket and get after the QB. We don't get many INT's/turnovers because we have trouble affecting the QB.

 

[TheCoolFan]

Wade Phillips is great. It also helps when you have great talent...and he's had HOF talent like Reggie White, Rickey Jackson, DeMarcus Ware, JJ Watt, and Von Miller.

Marinelli had Warren Sapp and Simeon Rice in Tampa and Julius Peppers in Chicago and those defenses were pretty good. Last I checked, DeMarcus Lawrence and ol' Tyrone Crawford just don't stack up here!

 

[T-RO]

So you want to bring back Wade?

As defensive coordinator, absolutely.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Wade Phillips is great. It also helps when you have great talent...and he's had HOF talent like Reggie White, Rickey Jackson, DeMarcus Ware, JJ Watt, and Von Miller.

Marinelli had Warren Sapp and Simeon Rice in Tampa and Julius Peppers in Chicago and those defenses were pretty good. Last I checked, DeMarcus Lawrence and ol' Tyrone Crawford just don't stack up here!

I'd like to see what Mirinelli could do w a Von Miller, ware, Wolfe, and Talib.

 

[KJJ]

As defensive coordinator, absolutely.

Wish we would have hired him as the DC in 2007 instead of the HC.

 

[T-RO]

Wade Phillips is great. It also helps when you have great talent...and he's had HOF talent like Reggie White, Rickey Jackson, DeMarcus Ware, JJ Watt, and Von Miller.

Marinelli had Warren Sapp and Simeon Rice in Tampa and Julius Peppers in Chicago and those defenses were pretty good. Last I checked, DeMarcus Lawrence and ol' Tyrone Crawford just don't stack up here!

Quite a coincidence that wherever Wade goes...all-pros and HOF players pop out of nowhere. He's been amazingly lucky...9 times in a row.

Look, Wade will be the first to say that you need to collect talent. But we as fans totally underestimate how big a deal it is for players to be in strategically superior systems and optimally deployed.

Sure Wade would be hard-pressed with the current Cowboy defensive roster.

But if want a dynasty in Dallas and want it fast...that's a guy that could deliver an elite defense and do it fast.

 

[T-RO]

Ware stated he would take a pay cut to $10M/year to stay. The FO offered him $5M. His dead money was close to $10M I think so I don't get how it made sense to release him for nothing rather than keep him at $10m/year which was a wash.

What was worse was that they had absolute no plan to replace him other than trading up for a grasp at a DE. Expensive mistakes.

I'm not doubting you...but do you have a link on this?

 

[the_h0wey]

As defensive coordinator, absolutely.

Why would he leave Denver where he won a Super Bowl and has the best Defense in the league to come back to Dallas? He would be working under someone who once worked under him. You also have to remember Garrett was not Wade's hire it was Jerry's. Most coaches, every one in the league that doesn't work under Jerry, typically gets to pick their own coordinators. Wade coming back to Dallas is nothing but a pipe dream.

 

[T-RO]

Wish we would have hired him as the DC in 2007 instead of the HC.

At the time I can understand why Phillips got appointed head coach. Wade had vastly more experience than Garrett and one of the two of them was going to end up with the promotion.

Ultimately Wade is brilliant with Xs and Os but he's not a strong enough leader for HC. And as we've learned...Jason OTOH isn't a brilliant X and O tactician, but perhaps works as a tone-setter.

 

[T-RO]

Why would he leave Denver where he won a Super Bowl and has the best Defense in the league to come back to Dallas? He would be working under someone who once worked under him. You also have to remember Garrett was not Wade's hire it was Jerry's. Most coaches, every one in the league that doesn't work under Jerry, typically gets to pick their own coordinators. Wade coming back to Dallas is nothing but a pipe dream.

Maybe it's a dream...but consider:
1. Wade's a coaching gypsie. He always seems to be moving after a few years.
2. Wade is from Texas and he might want to be back near his roots.
3. Wade is a builder but not a maintainer. His career arc shows repeated success then leveling after a few years.
4.He's at his best with the challenge of forging a sword.
5. This would be successful rebuild #10
6. Jerry can pay him more than anyone
7. Dallas is the biggest football stage...features the greatest stadium and facilities
8. Jerry could promise him picks to use as he wishes and with Romo leaving...team will have money to shop in free agency.

 

[T-RO]

It's not going to happen because Garrett wouldn't want him back on the staff after what happened. Let alone Wade wanting to be back after how everything went down. Wade was a lame duck and it got pretty ugly towards the end.

I could be wrong but I suspect both Jason and Wade are the kind of guys that can forgive and forget.

Is his contract in Denver up? Don't think coaches can make lateral moves, unless their team approves it. Don't know why Denver would want to let Wade walk.

Phillips is 69 years old and has friends all over the league. He's close with Gary Kubiak. Do you think if Phillips wanted to make a change that anyone would stand in the way?

Jerry is nearing the end. The league is obviously trying to honor and reward Jerry for how he has enriched all the owners. Would the league really intervene if a veteran coach wanted to move to Dallas?

Maybe a realistic scenario would be Wade agreeing to give the Broncos one more season?

 

[DogFace]

I don't think Ware holds up well physically in a 4-3

 

[haleyrules]

I don't think Ware holds up well physically in a 4-3

Yep. The Cowboys don't need Ware...they need a young, hardnosed leader to make this defense his own.

 

[mattjames2010]

Marinelli is a joke and I do not trust he'll ever develop any player into an elite pass rusher. Never understood the praise since he got here, always been quite mediocre outside of turnovers in 2014.

Meh.

 

[T-RO]

Yep. The Cowboys don't need Ware...they need a young, hardnosed leader to make this defense his own.

Top 10 sack guys, Age
Von Miller, 27
Lorenzo Alexander, 33
Cliff Avril, 30
Dee Ford, 25
Vic Beasley, 24
Ryan Kerrigan, 28
Khalil Mack, 25
Brian Orakpo, 30
Cameron Wake, 34
Chandler Jones, 26

I too prefer draft-focused improvement, but since that can take time some to develop I'd also like to see us explore getting one pass rusher in free agency.

I think we need two as I'm not convinced D. Lawrence is more than a rotational piece.

 

[rockj7]

Marinelli uses smoke and mirrors. Whole different level. Lol

Always wished Wade would come back to the Boys as D Coordinator most of the players that where here when he was HC are gone about to be cut or traded or their HOF career is coming to an end