Ware, Wade and Finding a Cowboys Pass Rush

[T-RO]

Always wished Wade would come back to the Boys as D Coordinator most of the players that where here when he was HC are gone about to be cut or traded or their HOF career is coming to an end

Wade was so unappreciated while he was here. Since he's left he's turned two defenses around.

The year before going to Houston the Texans had allowed the 4th most points in the league. In his first year the defense was the fourth most frugal.

In 2015 he landed in Denver. The previous year Denver D was 16th in points allowed. Under Wade the Broncos were ranked #1 in yards allowed and 4th in points allowed.

 

[DallasDomination]

I loved Ware.. I have his Jersey, one of only two I own, but let's not re write history. He was often injured and his production was way way down. It didn't match what he was being paid. Even in Denver, he hasn't been all world.. His first year there was pretty dang good but other than that, a non factor.

He was crazy good in the playoffs. Dont take that away from him.

 

[DallasDomination]

By the way Wade never worked out here because the players blatantly quit on him. It was one of the most embarrassing moments for me as a fan. Down right disgusting.

 

[risco]

There has been a number of posts lately critical of the Cowboys release of Demarcus Ware. It's quite understandable in light of our ongoing failure to field pass rushers and Ware's role after his departure for an elite Super Bowl champion Bronco team.

That's where we need to go back and look at the context of the decision and the impact of coach Phillips, both on past Cowboys teams and with the Broncos.

In 2008 Ware was a terror, tallying 20 sacks. The Cowboy defense led the entire league in sacks by a huge margin with 59.

And who was the coach that master-minded that defense? Wade Phillips.

Consider this quiet man's resume and accomplishments...

Phillips has been part of 19 top-10 defenses during his coaching career. Starting in 1989, when the Broncos hired him as defensive coordinator, every team he coached made the playoffs in his first season on staff.

And do his teams ever get to the passer! I did a random sample of different seasons. Here's how his pass rush performed:

Wade's defenses:
Saints, 55 sacks
Eagles, 57 sacks
Broncos, 52 sacks
Bills, 48 sacks
Chargers, 61 sacks
Falcons, 47 sacks
Cowboys, 59 sacks
Texans, 44 sacks
Broncos, 52 sacks

The Cowboys by comparison in years after Wade's departure:
2015, 31 sacks
2014, 27 sacks
2013, 34 sacks
2012, 34 sacks
2011, 42 sacks
2010, 35 sacks


There is much more to say on W&W....but I'll have to continue a little later today....

Dude- Ware was undersized for a DE in the 4-3 scheme. That's the reason he was release.

 

[GIFTS86]

Good luck replacing a guy like D-Ware he was doubled and tripled teamed and still has what 136 sacks in his career. I wish we could find someone else like him. However I don't think he would of been much help in our 4-3

 

[T-RO]

Dude- Ware was undersized for a DE in the 4-3 scheme. That's the reason he was release.

Huh? Ware is 6'4, 258.

The Cowboys didn't hesitate to spend a high pick on Randy Gregory who is is 235 pounds.

 

[T-RO]

By the way Wade never worked out here because the players blatantly quit on him. It was one of the most embarrassing moments for me as a fan. Down right disgusting.

I wouldn't want Wade as a head coach as I don't believe he has the temperament or leadership to be a head coach. But it should be noted that even there is career winning percentage is .562.

His strength is constructing and unleashing a defense...getting it ready to lay siege to a castle.

 

[mattjames2010]

By the way Wade never worked out here because the players blatantly quit on him. It was one of the most embarrassing moments for me as a fan. Down right disgusting.

Yeah, I said this before, but my opinion on a lot of our veteran players changed after that Green Bay game. The way they didn't want to tackle, just let Green Bay stroll up and down the field. You then see a few of them, like Jenkins, smiling on the sideline and Ware and Ratliff blaming each other after every play.

Wade wasn't a very good coach, but I'm glad some of those players are gone. I don't even think of Ware the same anymore.

 

[Wolfpack]

I'm not doubting you...but do you have a link on this?

Not with some searching no and I'm not doing that on my phone ha. I'll see what I can find tomorrow.

 

[erod]

Congratulations on one of the zaniest posts of the month.

2015 team sack leaders
1- Denver 12-4
2- New England 12-4
3- Pittsburgh 10-6
4- Kansas City 11-5
5- Houston 9-7
6-Carolina 15-1
7- Detroit 7-9
8-Green Bay 10-6

Top 8 teams in sacks went 86-42, won the AFC title, NFC title. Best pass-rushing team won the Super Bowl and did so without the benefit of a good offense.

Other than that I can see your point!

I've heard countless defensive coordinators, defensive linemen, and head coaches say that sacks are overrated.

They are. Pressure is important. Sacks are largely arbitrary.

 

[T-RO]

I've heard countless defensive coordinators, defensive linemen, and head coaches say that sacks are overrated.

They are. Pressure is important. Sacks are largely arbitrary.

Do share links.

Pressure won't always translate to sacks, but how often are you going to see a defense that is really good with pressure that doesn't over time create sacks?

Again for those just joining the thread...In 2015 there was an overwhelming correlation between sacks and winning. Top 8 teams in sacks went 86-42, won the AFC title, NFC title. Best pass-rushing team won the Super Bowl and did so without the benefit of a good offense.

 

[BAT]

I loved Ware as a Cowboys, but I remember the last years many of his sacks were in garbage time. Of course, we've done nothing to improve things since he's left.

I'll take some garbage sacks right now, any sacks however you want to call them. Just like a W is a W, a sack is a sack.

 

[BAT]

I've heard countless defensive coordinators, defensive linemen, and head coaches say that sacks are overrated.

They are. Pressure is important. Sacks are largely arbitrary.

That is usually espoused by players, coaches and coordinators that don't produce many sacks. It's like guys who say its not the size of the boat but the motion of the ocean. You know they travel in a dinghy.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Wade is obviously not a good head coach.

But to try to diminish his record because of super bowls is beyond silly. Defense is 40-45% of the sport.

Wade's defenses have been elite overall...not just in terms of sacks.

The greatest "free agency" signing Jerry could do is to bring Wade back. Throw the bank at him. Wade has never failed to deliver. He's succeeded in building top defenses 9 out of 9 times with 9 franchises.

I'd have no problem bringing Wade back...but tell me what is in it for Wade. Why would he come back to the team that gave him no rope and fired him unceremoniuosly. I guess a lot of money could do it....but then you have to pay your head coach a lot more. Is Wade ready to forget being a head coach again or does he want one more shot? Just seems unlikely to happen.

I would like to see what Marinelli could do with some real talent on defense.

 

[T-RO]

I'd have no problem bringing Wade back...but tell me what is in it for Wade. Why would he come back to the team that gave him no rope and fired him unceremoniuosly. I guess a lot of money could do it....but then you have to pay your head coach a lot more. Is Wade ready to forget being a head coach again or does he want one more shot? Just seems unlikely to happen.

I would like to see what Marinelli could do with some real talent on defense.

I answered the question regarding possible motivations for Wade earlier in the thread.

Dallas is the football mecca...and Wade is a Texan. Interestingly the Broncos fired Wade as head coach in '94 and he returned there as a defensive coordinator 20 years later.

Life sometimes brings people full circle.

But I don't dislike Marinelli and if we couldn't woo Wade I too would love to see what Rod can do with some real weapons for his defense.

 

[Idgit]

No interest in going back to the future with Wade or Ware. Though Wade was treated poorly here by fans and press.

Marinelli is a good DC. His players aren't good enough. I thought we covered all this and put it to bed finally with Linehan and Garrett back when they didn't have the talent on offense and everybody thought it was the coaching when it obviously wasn't?

 

[erod]

Do share links.

Pressure won't always translate to sacks, but how often are you going to see a defense that is really good with pressure that doesn't over time create sacks?

Again for those just joining the thread...In 2015 there was an overwhelming correlation between sacks and winning. Top 8 teams in sacks went 86-42, won the AFC title, NFC title. Best pass-rushing team won the Super Bowl and did so without the benefit of a good offense.

Good teams get a lot of their sacks because they're usually ahead, which makes the opponent one-dimensional.

 

[T-RO]

Good teams get a lot of their sacks because they're usually ahead, which makes the opponent one-dimensional.

Interesting theory...does make some sense. But when I look around in this league most games are pretty close.

The Broncos have got a heck of a lot of sacks when the game is on the line.

The money in the league tells you what the best football minds deem to be most valuable. After the quarterback the league pays premium money for guys who can sack or pressure the opposing quarterback.

Olivier Vernon, Miller, Houston...guys like that get the big money for heating up the pocket.

 

[T-RO]

No interest in going back to the future with Wade or Ware. Though Wade was treated poorly here by fans and press.

Marinelli is a good DC. His players aren't good enough. I thought we covered all this and put it to bed finally with Linehan and Garrett back when they didn't have the talent on offense and everybody thought it was the coaching when it obviously wasn't?

I started a thread six weeks ago in praise of Marinelli and I'm not dissuaded even after the Skins game. I think who's doing a very fine job. Wade is just in another level, IMO.

Obviously the Cowboys need more talent defensively.

 

[LocimusPrime]

By the way Wade never worked out here because the players blatantly quit on him. It was one of the most embarrassing moments for me as a fan. Down right disgusting.