Was Cowboys DL good. Durde?

kskboys

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Better overall and depth. Other than Ware, who really made any plays. S's were not really good, and really the CB's were not playing well. Still had no DT's that really stood out consistently. Maybe Ratliff, was he there at that time. Spears never did much. The LB's were better, because this season ended where we played S's at LB. So to me that does not really count as a comparison.
TNew is better than any CB we have right now, and Henry was solid.

Spears/Canty/Ferguson are miles better than Osa/Hankins/Mazie

Ellis is equal to or better than DLaw.

Ware is better than Parsons.

Bradie James is better than our LB corps all by himself.

Roy Williams was better(at that time) than any of our SS's.

FS now is better because we trotted Watkins out there in 06 and he busted.

Where are we better now?
 

jazzcat22

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TNew is better than any CB we have right now, and Henry was solid.

Spears/Canty/Ferguson are miles better than Osa/Hankins/Mazie

Ellis is equal to or better than DLaw.

Ware is better than Parsons.

Bradie James is better than our LB corps all by himself.

Roy Williams was better(at that time) than any of our SS's.

FS now is better because we trotted Watkins out there in 06 and he busted.

Where are we better now?
James was better, ha, what did he ever do. He was decent, but not better, especially all by himself.
If Spears, Canty, Ferguson was better, why did they give up so many yards. What we have now is not any different than these 3.
TNew was decent here, but he was not better. Maybe not always worse, but not better.
Ellis was solid, but DLaw is at least as good.
Ware / Parsons, hard call. Need to see Parsons in Zimmer's defense.

Roy Williams yes, better.

Better, comes from the depth. And overall across the board. Not just a few players here and there.
 

kskboys

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James was better, ha, what did he ever do. He was decent, but not better, especially all by himself.
If Spears, Canty, Ferguson was better, why did they give up so many yards. What we have now is not any different than these 3.
TNew was decent here, but he was not better. Maybe not always worse, but not better.
Ellis was solid, but DLaw is at least as good.
Ware / Parsons, hard call. Need to see Parsons in Zimmer's defense.

Roy Williams yes, better.

Better, comes from the depth. And overall across the board. Not just a few players here and there.
Bradie James was a very solid MLB. Wish we had his equal now.

They were 10 against the run, not giving up that many yards.

The depth was better back then.
 

Cowboyny

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i believe at one point Williams had like 3 sacks in str8 games and this was a player who was still struggling with turf toe
for most of the season.

We're not asking Fowler to start ,we're asking him to rotate
He;s not a good enuff run defender to start and the more plays he's exposed to, the more he is gonna wear down
He's done in a nickel pass rush role. His rotation production is not relevant to Parsons. It's one on one and he was
already an accomplished edge rusher. he's just not a full time starter to being doing both rush and run D.

Osa flashes penetration skills but still needs to expand his production over a full season, he wears down 2nd halves of seasons and his run D tends to come and go. he still struggles with consistency. probably why he's not a Pro Bowler
yet.

i think Dlaw can only do so much,.. Ditto for Hankins ... it's a team gap and containment scheme overall.

So many here was so sold on just cuz we have Hankins in the middle our run defense would be solved.
Throughout the year, my biggest issue about our run defense was Parson's inability to set the edge. Teams were running right at him and taking advantage of his over agressiveness. In my opinion, those outside runs actually gave us more problems then within the interior. Quinn used his off the ball against the 49ers in the playoff game two years ago, where we kept their strong ground game in check until they played too many snaps. Many will say taking Parsons off the ball hurts our pass rush, but his stats sacks will pretty much the same as a rookie playing more off the ball.

Agree, Osa has gotten better, but he has shown to ware down each season. His small frame might make him more of a rotational piece. As a run defender, he really struggles and gets consistently pushed back. Playing these quick/switch, undersized lineman is a big part of the problem.

Durde was coaching who he had, the bigger problem was how the constructed the personnel and targeted speed/quickness over size/strength.
 

Kwyn

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I'm off the top looking for more production from Parsons now.
I’m looking for pass rush from anyone but Parsons.

We need to add a high quality pass rusher to move some of the defensive scheming away from “gameplan for parsons, he’s all they got”.

Love Tank as a high quality steady eddy especially against the run but we need more pass rush.

Doing so will help the entire D, parsons included
 

Cowboyny

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That rotational piece has 17 TFL's and 16 sacks the last 2 years.

Keep in mine this is a 4th rounder we're talking about putting up some solid production.
Two years ago, once they took away all those twists/stunts to help stop the run, Armstrong's sack numbers totally disappeared. Has never been a great run defender, either. Good, role player, but I wouldn't break the bank to keep him by any means. He is probably going to get 8-10 million, that is too rich what he provides.
 

conner01

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What did Durde accomplish?

As a rookie, Parsons was at LB during training camp and only started 4 games at DE. He had 13 sacks.

Mazi didn't do anything as a rookie 1st round DT.

They often struggled to stop the run.

They were ranked near the top in pressures, but when the DC is OK with getting gashed by the run in order to get more pressures and you have Parsons, then pressures should happen often.
Armstrong and Osa both have developed into solid players. Like most coaches you have some good and some bad. And sonetimes they were given a player who just wasn’t good. Mazi may develop into a decent NT and I think that’s how Zimmer will use him but I said then I thought he was drafted too high. I think they seen his athletic ability and thought they could make a pass rusher out of him but he’s to slow off the snap to ever be a pass rusher to me. Just fatten him back up and make a plugger out of him the next couple years and see if it works or you move on
 

blueblood70

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I’m looking for pass rush from anyone but Parsons.

We need to add a high quality pass rusher to move some of the defensive scheming away from “gameplan for parsons, he’s all they got”.

Love Tank as a high quality steady eddy especially against the run but we need more pass rush.

Doing so will help the entire D, parsons included
the Cowboys dropped a little bit and sack totals but they're not that far away from the rest of the NFL's top sack teams and they also are very high on the list and pressures so as a team we're tie with about four other teams for 13th overall with 46 sacks but that's only three away from being 5th in the NFL in sacks,,, I mean the number one team yes had 60 that would be the Ravens and how they didn't make the Super bowl I don't know have they lost that championship game I don't know their defense was ridiculous all year however let's not exaggerate I believe our team does a really good job getting pressure and sacks they missed out on a bunch and there was a lot of holding and we saw the whole thing but really when you're tie with a bunch of teens at 13 but you're only like 3 sacks away from being 5th I mean sure the goal is to be #1 but don't act like we're like at the bottom of the league in sacks and I bet you look up pressures alone that's where all those turnovers come from...

This team literally needs to fix the middle of the defense from the two defensive tackles and the linebackers more so than anything else.. It's about stopping the run and yeah if they can get more pressure up the middle it could lead to some more sacks but they're not that far off in sacks and pressures so I wouldn't even put that at the top of my list they got guys that can do that... I think everyone's in agreement we need to stop the run better we need to provide more pressure up the middle and I also believe I saw less of this this year from Dan Quinn not bringing a safety linebacker or corner on blitzes for whatever reason so we slipped a little in sacks..
 

conner01

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You think that was a Durde decision?
I think Quinn wanted it. I suspect they seen he was a freak athlete and thought he could be a pass rusher. That’s not his game because he’s way to slow off the snaps. Fatten him up and put him at NT and make the best of what he can actually do
 

blueblood70

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That void needs to be filled by Sam Williams, who the team spent a 2nd rd pick on. It's his 3rd year, it's time to take that next step!
The dude was in the dog house I don't know what you mean by time to step up give him the snaps that tank gets like the amount of time on the field and you'll see the guys got all the talent in the world he could put those numbers up... I have no doubt the man can be a star in our defense if the coaches allow him to get on the field so yeah if we allow Fowler and or Armstrong to get away it is time for Sam Williams to literally get a 40% bump in snaps put his *** on the field and let him play.. I think his two off field issues that he's had made the coaches a little irritated with him and didn't give him the snaps like I said I think he was in the doghouse especially the start this year but the man's first step his quickness his instincts is what you want from your defensive end and yeah he's a little bit overzealous where on special teams with the penalties but the guy is there as a playmaker just needs to calm down a little bit at the end of those plays but it shows how quick he is and how athletic he is and look at the snaps just look at how little he's on the field and the presence he can have we don't want him to turn into Randy Gregory and I think that just give the guy the increased play time.. His stat sheet will fill up if we do this isn't a Randy Gregory thing where he's suspended...

For whatever reason Dan Quinn did not like to use Sam Williams as much has he liked his old guys that he brought here and Fowler and Armstrong for some reason you give those snacks now to Sam Williams... Then tank you know can't complain about being tired in the playoffs take half his snaps away lol
 

Cowboyny

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The dude was in the dog house I don't know what you mean by time to step up give him the snaps that tank gets like the amount of time on the field and you'll see the guys got all the talent in the world he could put those numbers up... I have no doubt the man can be a star in our defense if the coaches allow him to get on the field so yeah if we allow Fowler and or Armstrong to get away it is time for Sam Williams to literally get a 40% bump in snaps put his *** on the field and let him play.. I think his two off field issues that he's had made the coaches a little irritated with him and didn't give him the snaps like I said I think he was in the doghouse especially the start this year but the man's first step his quickness his instincts is what you want from your defensive end and yeah he's a little bit overzealous where on special teams with the penalties but the guy is there as a playmaker just needs to calm down a little bit at the end of those plays but it shows how quick he is and how athletic he is and look at the snaps just look at how little he's on the field and the presence he can have we don't want him to turn into Randy Gregory and I think that just give the guy the increased play time.. His stat sheet will fill up if we do this isn't a Randy Gregory thing where he's suspended...

For whatever reason Dan Quinn did not like to use Sam Williams as much has he liked his old guys that he brought here and Fowler and Armstrong for some reason you give those snacks now to Sam Williams... Then tank you know can't complain about being tired in the playoffs take half his snaps away lol
They aren’t going to be able to keep veterans like Armstrong much long as their price gets higher, a player like Williams has to become that next in line. Has all the talent, just needs that opportunity
 

1942willys

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That's a good question.

I'll follow that by asking who's choice was it to repeatedly play our CBs 12 yards off the receivers when it's 3rd and 5?......Quinn or Al Harris?
Frankly cleaning house for all the position coaches would be a good idea as far as I am concerned
 

CCBoy

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The dude was in the dog house I don't know what you mean by time to step up give him the snaps that tank gets like the amount of time on the field and you'll see the guys got all the talent in the world he could put those numbers up... I have no doubt the man can be a star in our defense if the coaches allow him to get on the field so yeah if we allow Fowler and or Armstrong to get away it is time for Sam Williams to literally get a 40% bump in snaps put his *** on the field and let him play.. I think his two off field issues that he's had made the coaches a little irritated with him and didn't give him the snaps like I said I think he was in the doghouse especially the start this year but the man's first step his quickness his instincts is what you want from your defensive end and yeah he's a little bit overzealous where on special teams with the penalties but the guy is there as a playmaker just needs to calm down a little bit at the end of those plays but it shows how quick he is and how athletic he is and look at the snaps just look at how little he's on the field and the presence he can have we don't want him to turn into Randy Gregory and I think that just give the guy the increased play time.. His stat sheet will fill up if we do this isn't a Randy Gregory thing where he's suspended...

For whatever reason Dan Quinn did not like to use Sam Williams as much has he liked his old guys that he brought here and Fowler and Armstrong for some reason you give those snacks now to Sam Williams... Then tank you know can't complain about being tired in the playoffs take half his snaps away lol
Some of the problem could have been the difficulty in integrating into a scheme with more flex and the ability to hide alternatives that will be apparent in the newly arriving scheme in executions. There will be some talent adjustments on the way to integrated actions.

Parsons will benefit from the flexability and talent uses both.
 

blueblood70

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They aren’t going to be able to keep veterans like Armstrong much long as their price gets higher, a player like Williams has to become that next in line. Has all the talent, just needs that opportunity
of course some players are simply in the doghouse and he's been in DQ's doghouse.it apparent. hopefully zimmer finds that middle ground for this guy you need to get him to come under control a bit but dont want to suppress that energy and motor.
 

kskboys

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They aren’t going to be able to keep veterans like Armstrong much long as their price gets higher, a player like Williams has to become that next in line. Has all the talent, just needs that opportunity
Might not have the mental talent.
 

kskboys

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Armstrong and Osa both have developed into solid players. Like most coaches you have some good and some bad. And sonetimes they were given a player who just wasn’t good. Mazi may develop into a decent NT and I think that’s how Zimmer will use him but I said then I thought he was drafted too high. I think they seen his athletic ability and thought they could make a pass rusher out of him but he’s to slow off the snap to ever be a pass rusher to me. Just fatten him back up and make a plugger out of him the next couple years and see if it works or you move on
Mazi is not quick laterally, the hallmark of a disruptive DT. I have no idea why we continuously ignore this facet of athleticism as the players who lack it just keep failing. Jeff Heath, Reggie Robinson, Eric Scott, and a host of others. And we just keep drafting them. How many SS types who couldn't turn have we drafted in the mid/late rounds? It's been a pile.
 

kskboys

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Two years ago, once they took away all those twists/stunts to help stop the run, Armstrong's sack numbers totally disappeared. Has never been a great run defender, either. Good, role player, but I wouldn't break the bank to keep him by any means. He is probably going to get 8-10 million, that is too rich what he provides.
Yeah, you can find players of his ilk in the mid to late rounds every draft.
 

kskboys

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Throughout the year, my biggest issue about our run defense was Parson's inability to set the edge. Teams were running right at him and taking advantage of his over agressiveness. In my opinion, those outside runs actually gave us more problems then within the interior. Quinn used his off the ball against the 49ers in the playoff game two years ago, where we kept their strong ground game in check until they played too many snaps. Many will say taking Parsons off the ball hurts our pass rush, but his stats sacks will pretty much the same as a rookie playing more off the ball.

Agree, Osa has gotten better, but he has shown to ware down each season. His small frame might make him more of a rotational piece. As a run defender, he really struggles and gets consistently pushed back. Playing these quick/switch, undersized lineman is a big part of the problem.

Durde was coaching who he had, the bigger problem was how the constructed the personnel and targeted speed/quickness over size/strength.
Well done.
 

Cowboyny

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Yeah, you can find players of his ilk in the mid to late rounds every draft.
He is more of a good, rotational type, not a starter in this league. Think Fehoko could match his production with a little more development.
 
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